Two very different 3" (ish) carry revolvers

[chaim]

So my new Taurus 856 Defender and 2.75" S&W 66 have now been to the range a couple times and I've shot 200-300 rounds through each.

Of course, the K-frame is more comfortable to shoot. Shooting reasonable magnums out of it (low recoil 158gr Buffalo Bore, most 125gr magnums, any 110gr magnums) is similar in feel to heavier .38+P out of the Taurus. Shooting .38 and .38+P I can shoot it all day. It is becoming one of my favorite guns to shoot out of any of my guns. I no longer shoot revolvers as accurately as I do my better autos (CZs and 1911s), though a big part of that is the sights (I may have a fixed sight added to the rear with a night sight on the front). Still, after a cylinder or two to adjust, I'm still accurate with it, at least as good as with my P365. Quick follow up shots are easy with it.

The 856 Defender is a different beast. The grips look great, but, while they allow a 3 finger grip, they are thin and do not fill my hand. It really doesn't absorb recoil any better than my 16oz aluminum 856UL with the standard 856 grip (it only has a little ledge for my pinky, but it is thicker and fills my hand better). 10-20 rounds of +P defensive ammo or 158 grain rounds are not comfortable, let alone a box of 50. The front night sight is easy to pick up against the standard revolver fixed trough rear and it is a bit easier to shoot accurately than the 66, though quick follow up shots are a bit slower. I'm torn between replacing the grips for something more hand filling for the range (and quicker follow up shots) or keeping these as they'll likely conceal very well. I could mostly shoot lighter recoiling rounds for most of my practice with a couple of cylinders of defensive ammo at a time, though being able to shoot what I want out of it with more hand filling grips would be nice.

The 66 has a fairly standard modern S&W finish (matte stainless) and I am a fan of the black accents (ejection rod and cylinder release). After a box of rather dirty lead practice rounds (classic LSWC) it took some serious scrubbing and still isn't 100% clean. The Ceracote of the Defender not only looks good, it cleans up very easily. Both finishes should hold up well to the abuses of regular carry.

I have been on a revolver kick lately, carrying my 856UL a lot more than my SIG P365 lately (2 or 3 months). I'm looking forward to both of these getting some serious carry time from here on.


Edit:
I forgot to mention the trigger, not much difference there. Fairly typical of S&W and Taurus (when Taurus gets the trigger right)... a little heavy in DA and much lighter SA, but smooth as butter in either.

 

[Tallball]

Nice revolvers! I'd gladly carry either.

Unfortunately, monster hand-filling grips that are excellent for a range toy and slim concealable grips seem to be mutually exclusive.

For me, DA snubby practice seems to be DA snubby practice. Practice with one of them, get better with all of them.

Thus I like to have a cheap practice piece that I can put bigger grips on if I want. Just a thought, if you happen to see a scratched-up used Model 85 or something. You can put some big cheap rubber grips on it and attempt to shoot it to death with 38 specials. Mine is still alive.

 

[chaim]

Unfortunately, monster hand-filling grips that are excellent for a range toy and slim concealable grips seem to be mutually exclusive.

While there always is some compromise, there are some grips that are much more comfortable than these while still being good for concealment. Most boot grips are quite compact but will have a bit of a palm swell and also be longer front to back than these to better fill my hand (though with only a 2 finger grip). Also, "combat grips" like the Altamonts I have on the 66 will be thicker side to side and front to back, but with an exposed backstrap. They are comfortable at the range, with a 3 finger grip, yet reasonably concealable. The biggest issue with the fit (for me) with these Taurus grips is that, in addition to being quite thin side to side, they are at their thinnest front to back where I most want more material (at the top, where my middle finger sits, between the grip and the trigger guard), and quite a few grip designs are quite concealable while filling in that space.

Thus I like to have a cheap practice piece that I can put bigger grips on if I want. Just a thought, if you happen to see a scratched-up used Model 85 or something.

I already have a few potential training guns for small framed snubs. I have an old Taurus 85CH I've had since the early to mid 2000s (1990s vintage, it was about 10 years old when I bought it) that sometimes has the old Uncle Mikes boot grip on it and sometimes has the old Uncle Mikes combat grip. I still have my 3" new model Colt King Cobra (though I may sell it), the trigger is terrific so it is fun at the range, but with the different trigger reset and cylinder release vs. the Smiths and Tauruses I'm used to I don't use it for personal protection. I have a 3" .22lr J-frame, my S&W 317 Kit Gun which is a lot of fun (and has quite a heavy DA trigger, so my other snubs will seem light and easy by comparison). I'm also considering buying a 2" .22mag (I'd prefer a variant of the the S&W 351 but for something that will be a toy, spending about half as much for a Taurus 942 would be nice). I also have a 2" snub form factor laser training pistol (no recoil, but I use it to practice realistic training at home, as well as practicing fundamentals). It's funny, I didn't used to like J-frames and 2" revolvers, but I am becoming quite a fan. I always have my eye out on a good deal on a classic J-frame like a S&W 60 or 36, and a J-frame Ladysmith to compliment my 65LS might be fun to have (outside a J-frame trainer, I'd also like to add a 2" K-frame, especially a S&W 10 as well).

 

[chaim]

Oh, I did not expect the feel of the 66 to be as new to me as it is. I'm clearly becoming less recoil tolerant as I age than I used to be. My first .357mag, and the handgun I've owned the longest is a 3" S&W 65LS (not my 1st handgun, I sold my 1st and 2nd, it was the 3rd handgun I purchased). That is a 3" K-frame .357mag. I used to shoot pretty much any mags out of it, and other than bear loads, I thought it handled them all quite well. Now, this 66 gets a bit stouter than I'd like when shooting 158 grain magnums that aren't specifically lower recoil defensive rounds. I don't even want to think about the 180 grain bear loads out of it. I guess it was unexpected since it has been so long since I've shot magnums out of my 65 so I'm not really used to .357mag out of it anymore. Older K-frame magnum revolvers have the potential issue of forcing cone damage. I stopped counting my rounds 15+ years ago when I hit 10,000 rounds (a substantial percentage were magnums). Since the 65LS has some sentimental value, being the handgun I've held onto the longest, I wanted to preserve it. About 15 years ago I went to primarily .38spl out of it with only an occasional box of magnums being shot from it, and for the last 10 years, I probably have shot fewer than 200-300 rounds of .357 out of it, and those were nearly all 110 grain.

 

[vanfunk]

Nice pair and great run-down of the two revolvers! I’ve been on a revolver kick, too, so I sympathize. I too have a new S&W model 66 2.75” and I’ve been very impressed with it. I love the ball detent lockup and full forcing cone of these new ones, as I like to shoot full power magnums in mine and the 66 now seems plenty stout for the task. The DA pull on mine was about 14 lbs out of the box, but reduced power Wolff springs brought it down to about 9, much better. I have also discovered that cleaning the “eggshell” bead blasted finish is a chore. Even after a Hoppe’s bath and a rub-down with a lead-away cloth, mine still won’t get perfectly clean. No matter, it’s a working gun. I have no experience with the Taurus but a few friends have ‘em and like ‘em lots.

 

[lee n. field]

The 856 Defender is a different beast. The grips look great, but, while they allow a 3 finger grip, they are thin and do not fill my hand. It really doesn't absorb recoil any better than my 16oz aluminum 856UL with the standard 856 grip (it only has a little ledge for my pinky, but it is thicker and fills my hand better).

My second 856 came with that Altamont grip. They're pretty and all. But, I echo your criticism, and add to it that speedloaders don't clear it without doing some reshaping.

10-20 rounds of +P defensive ammo or 158 grain rounds are not comfortable, let alone a box of 50. The front night sight is easy to pick up against the standard revolver fixed trough rear and it is a bit easier to shoot accurately than the 66, though quick follow up shots are a bit slower. I'm torn between replacing the grips for something more hand filling for the range (and quicker follow up shots) or keeping these as they'll likely conceal very well.

Replace the grip.

From the intersection of what's available on the market now, and what I've tried, take a look at the Hogue grip. It's readily available, and not expensive. The Viridian lasergrip Taurus offers is bigger and rubber. (FWIW, I've tried both. Finger grooves for each are not to my liking.) The Crimson Trace lasergrip (LG-385) is what I have on mine, and is for me very much a sweet spot.

And, yes, I can pocket a 2" gun with each of these grips. (Viridian is largest, and really pushing it.)

The 66 has a fairly standard modern S&W finish (matte stainless) and I am a fan of the black accents (ejection rod and cylinder release).

BTW, you can do the same with the Taurus. Both ejector rod and cylinder release can be bought from Taurus' webstore, in "blue" and stainless.

 

[halfmoonclip]

My standard advice for shooting small, hard kicking handguns; wear a bicycle glove for practice. They leave the fingers exposed, and have a padded palm areas. It cushions the recoil, and feels like it makes the grip bigger.
Moon

 

[chaim]

My standard advice for shooting small, hard kicking handguns; wear a bicycle glove for practice. They leave the fingers exposed, and have a padded palm areas. It cushions the recoil, and feels like it makes the grip bigger.
Moon

I forgot to mention in the post about practice guns, I do have a shooting glove for harder kicking handguns. I got it so I could more comfortably shoot my Kel Tec Pf-9 and S&W 442 for a longer time period. I'll sometimes shoot a mag or two in a less comfortable auto, or a cylinder or two out of a less comfortable revolver, and then switch to the glove for longer range sessions. I also sometimes use it for all my carry guns. Shooting a gun with a glove does feel different than without, and a CCW gun could be needed in the winter so I want to be practiced with gloves. Next time I buy a new pair of gloves, I'll buy two pairs of the same gloves, one for the range, and one to wear as my gloves (I don't want to use the gloves I actually wear at the range due to the risk of lead exposure).

 

[chaim]

My second 856 came with that Altamont grip. They're pretty and all. But, I echo your criticism, and add to it that speedloaders don't clear it without doing some reshaping.

I'm not too worried about compatibility with speed loaders. I've moved almost exclusively to the Zeta6 speedloaders. I like the K-Clip and J-Clip which is closest to a traditional speed loader (5 or 6 at a time), but I prefer the K-Pak and J-Pak which pack as easily as a speed strip, but load 3 at a time so it is almost as quick as a speed loader.

From the intersection of what's available on the market now, and what I've tried, take a look at the Hogue grip.

I'm not a big fan of rubber on a revolver (with the exception of the old Uncle Mikes grips). Some of it is looks, but while rubber provides some absorption of the recoil, it also has an abrasion effect, at least for me. A hand filling wood grip helps with the recoil, while not having any abrasion against the skin of my hand. That said, I do like the wood Hogue combat grips, though they can be a little expensive.

 

[Biblethumpncop]

I highly recommend finding an old set of Herrett Shooting Ace grips for a J Frame S&W. You have to drill a hole for the index pin but it doesn't permanently alter anything.

 

[halfmoonclip]

while not having any abrasion against the skin of my hand

This.
My 340SC came with some sort of really grippy Hogue; it stuck so well with that rappy little (redacted) that it almost took my skin along. It's since been replaced with smooth boot grips; plenty to grab, but it can move a little in my hand.
Moon

 

[halfmoonclip]

I highly recommend finding an old set of Herrett Shooting Ace grips for a J Frame S&W. You have to drill a hole for the index pin but it doesn't permanently alter anything.
View attachment 1181058

Dammit, I really like those; relatively flat, nice checkering. Moot point; do I recall Herett being out of business?
Thanks,
Moon

 

[Biblethumpncop]

Dammit, I really like those; relatively flat, nice checkering. Moot point; do I recall Herett being out of business?
Thanks,
Moon

They are alive, but not making that model. You have to keep your eye open on Evilbay and the used forums. The round butt grips fit better than the square butt grips (leaves a gap).

 

[dranrab]

I am not going to say anything about the man purse.

 

[Gork10]

Have you looked at the g-10 grips made for the 856. I handled one at a local shop. They seem to fit my size XXL hands well. I think VZ makes them.

 

[Tallball]

@chaim "I'd also like to add a 2" K-frame (especially a S&W 10) as well."

Kinda like this one? It was a LE turn-in.

Smith And Wesson Model 10 Snub

• Tallball
• Apr 20, 2020

 

[chaim]

I am not going to say anything about the man purse.

It's my brief case/laptop case for work.

 

[DWFan]

Definitely a different 3" carry revolver; my Dan Wesson M14-2 with a 3" EWK barrel...

(please excuse the poor photography)