US Army Buying Thousands of 'Awesome' New Sniper Rifles

[Aim1]

Odd choice, you'd think they'd want something that could shoot .338 Lapua.


From the article: "The main difference between the MRAD and other sniper rifles is that it can be chambered in 7.62 by 51 mm NATO, .300 Norma Magnum, and .338 Norma Magnum ammunition, giving the shooter greater flexibility without changing weapons."




https://www.businessinsider.com/us-army-buying-thousands-of-awesome-new-sniper-rifles-2021-3

 

[kcofohio]

Odd, as I thought Lapua Magnum was already in use by the military. Both Lapua and Norma .338" show the same ft. lb. energy for a 250 gr. bullet. The Norma has a slightly shorter brass case.

 

[Robert]

Na, they dumped it a few years ago. Though I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today...

 

[kcofohio]

Na, they dumped it a few years ago. Though I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time today...

Okay, thanks! Shows you how much I keep up on these things.

 

[jmr40]

The military experimented with 338 Lapua several years ago. Even issued a few rifles, but ultimately decided on 300 WM as their long range platform. At least as the official choice.

The thing that makes this so confusing is that there are so many special forces units that can, and do use anything they can afford to buy off the shelf or even have custom built. I see things in print all the time stating that all types of rifles, and cartridges are being issued. They are all true, but just in small numbers to specific units. I'm sure there are some 338 Lapua rifles out there being used by someone. But not as standard issue.

 

[DustyGmt]

Okay, thanks! Shows you how much I keep up on these things.

That one came up in my Google feed too...

 

[BigBore44]

I don’t really understand multiple cartridge sniper rifles. Specifically 308 and 300NM. Use the more powerful round and now you aren’t limited if you need to engage a target at longer distance. It will still eliminate the closer targets just as well. Dead is dead. But then again, I don’t understand a lot of what the government does.

 

[FL-NC]

I don’t really understand multiple cartridge sniper rifles. Specifically 308 and 300NM. Use the more powerful round and now you aren’t limited if you need to engage a target at longer distance. It will still eliminate the closer targets just as well. Dead is dead. But then again, I don’t understand a lot of what the government does.

It doesn't tie the user down to 1 caliber and its availability, also there are ranges that are limited to certain calibers due to the surface danger zone (SDZ) of a given range.

 

[kcofohio]

I don’t really understand multiple cartridge sniper rifles. Specifically 308 and 300NM. Use the more powerful round and now you aren’t limited if you need to engage a target at longer distance. It will still eliminate the closer targets just as well. Dead is dead. But then again, I don’t understand a lot of what the government does.

The Snake Oil Salesman lives on?

 

[mcb]

The Remington PSR, predecessor to the Barrett MRAD, and now the MRAD are three barrel sniper rifles for three purposes.

The 308 barrels are primarily used for cheap training/practice, both ammo cost are low and barrel last a long time and are cheap to replace. The reduced recoil, especially in rifles as heavy as the PSR and MRAD, also allow longer practice session without fatigue for the shooters.

The 300 Win Mag and now the 300 Norma Mag are the primary anti-personnel rounds. 300 NM offers the ability to push the Berger 215gr bullet ~200 fps faster than 300 WM from similar barrel length, the army is really pushing the pressure in their loading of the 300 NM.

The 338 Lapua Mag and now 338 Norma Mag round use a 300 gr tungsten core bullet from Nammo ammunition and its role it primarily as as anti-material round. 338 NM follow the trend of a lot of newer cartridges. It is simply a 338 LM with the shoulder set back some giving up a little case volume for the room to load longer VLD bullets.

The anti-material roll for these system never made much sense to me as the 50 BMG rifles dominate this role but adding it to the package does give the user the option to do all three with one system.

 

[jmorris]

I don’t really understand...

With the .gov, it could sometimes be someone just using up a budget so they are allocated the same resources the next year. Makes it really hard to rationalize or understand decisions made this way.

 

[BigBore44]

It doesn't tie the user down to 1 caliber and its availability, also there are ranges that are limited to certain calibers due to the surface danger zone (SDZ) of a given range.

So you’re saying there are areas you can kill hostiles with a 308. But it’s not ok to engage them with a 300WM or NM because it’s too powerful? So what is the difference in the SDZ of a 7.25x51 miss vs a 300NM hit?

 

[Garandimal]

I want a rifle that shoots $10/rd. ammo!

No, wait...

Never mind.




GR

 

[kcofohio]

The Remington PSR, predecessor to the Barrett MRAD, and now the MRAD are three barrel sniper rifles for three purposes.

The 308 barrels are primarily used for cheap training/practice, both ammo cost are low and barrel last a long time and are cheap to replace. The reduced recoil, especially in rifles as heavy as the PSR and MRAD, also allow longer practice session without fatigue for the shooters.

The 300 Win Mag and now the 300 Norma Mag are the primary anti-personnel rounds. 300 NM offers the ability to push the Berger 215gr bullet ~200 fps faster than 300 WM from similar barrel length, the army is really pushing the pressure in their loading of the 300 NM.

The 338 Lapua Mag and now 338 Norma Mag round use a 300 gr tungsten core bullet from Nammo ammunition and its role it primarily as as anti-material round. 338 NM follow the trend of a lot of newer cartridges. It is simply a 338 LM with the shoulder set back some giving up a little case volume for the room to load longer VLD bullets.

The anti-material roll for these system never made much sense to me as the 50 BMG rifles dominate this role but adding it to the package does give the user the option to do all three with one system.

I thought maybe the 3-barrel platform was a new thing.

 

[kcofohio]

I want a rifle that shoots $10/rd. ammo!

No, wait...

Never mind.




GR

And good luck finding components to reload them nowadays!

 

[mcb]

I thought maybe the 3-barrel platform was a new thing.

No the three barrel/caliber requirement was first brought forward during the SOCOM PSR (Precision Sniper Rifle) program that resulted in an updated version of the Remington MSR that they renamed the PSR after winning the program. The Barrett MRAD was the winner of the follow on program called the ASR (Advanced Sniper Rifle). It really is not that much different than the PSR when you look at both rifles. Either rifle, due to the design, can be chambered in a fairly large variety of cartridges. I know some special forces units are already playing with MRAD chambered in 300 PRC rather than 300 NM due to some accuracy issue with 300 NM.

 

[herrwalther]

So you’re saying there are areas you can kill hostiles with a 308. But it’s not ok to engage them with a 300WM or NM because it’s too powerful? So what is the difference in the SDZ of a 7.25x51 miss vs a 300NM hit?

Yes. Take the M82 Barrett for example. It is described as an "anti material" rifle and should not be used against unarmored personnel. Now if the shooter and commander suspect armor, that changes the engagement to where it might be used. There are arbitrary (read as stupid) rules the military has to follow.

I want a rifle that shoots $10/rd. ammo!

There are benefits to shooting on the military dime. I fondly remember being enlisted during the Bush years when we would get 17-20K rounds of ammo to qualify 130ish soldiers. Considering it only takes 40 rounds to qualify, a lot of people fired more than once just to get more trigger time. And burn up the ammo.

 

[Speedo66]

In the military, a major roadblock seems to be not being able to quickly come up with a snappy acronym.

 

[taliv]

Fwiw the 300nm is pretty awesome. I’ve had one a few years and I don’t have a million rounds on it but it’s accurate and the recoil feels mild and it hits like a hammer.

 

[mcb]

Fwiw the 300nm is pretty awesome. I’ve had one a few years and I don’t have a million rounds on it but it’s accurate and the recoil feels mild and it hits like a hammer.

In an 18-pound chassis-gun 300 NM is not bad recoil wise, especially if that 18 lbs includes a suppressor. In an ~9 lb traditional bolt gun with a brake it is a rather mean and unpleasant experience.

 

[taliv]

In an 18-pound chassis-gun 300 NM is not bad recoil wise, especially if that 18 lbs includes a suppressor. In an ~9 lb traditional bolt gun with a brake it is a rather mean and unpleasant experience.

sure, but not as mean as a 9 lb 338LM

 

[BigBore44]

Yes. Take the M82 Barrett for example. It is described as an "anti material" rifle and should not be used against unarmored personnel. Now if the shooter and commander suspect armor, that changes the engagement to where it might be used. There are arbitrary (read as stupid) rules the military has to follow.

But I’m not talking about a 50 and armor. I’m talking about deploying a 308 vs 300. Tell me an instance when I can deploy a 308, but not a 300.

 

[C-grunt]

So you’re saying there are areas you can kill hostiles with a 308. But it’s not ok to engage them with a 300WM or NM because it’s too powerful? So what is the difference in the SDZ of a 7.25x51 miss vs a 300NM hit?

No, he is saying that there are shooting ranges where more powerful rounds are not allowed to be used because of their increased range.

 

[C-grunt]

The multi caliber rifle has several advantages.

If you are a sniper on a remote outpost and your 300 NM barrel goes tits up because it has a short barrel life, you can switch calibers easily to 308 as you wait for a new barrel to arrive. Similar situation if you run out of 300 NM ammo.

Like said before you can train with 308 easier and at more ranges stateside.

You can take one rifle and cover multiple scenarios you may encounter. If you set out into a valley and set up an OP and realize most of your engagement are going to be multiple targets under 800 meters, then the less recoil and report of the 308 would be beneficial. If you see that you'll likely be shooting 1200-1500 meters across the valley then the 300 NM is a great option. If you see that the Taliban have a nice Toyota Hilux that they are using to run equipment, then a couple 338 NM rounds through the engine compartment would be a good idea.

 

[C-grunt]

On a related note, I got some decent trigger time behind a MRAD last October. It was a very very high quality and accurate rifle. The one I shot was 338 Lapua. When I decide to buy a magnum rifle, it will probably be a MRAD. A buddy of mine sold his two AI AXMC rifles and went to the MRADs.

signal-2020-10-01-155909 (1) by chase, on Flickr