US Army Buying Thousands of 'Awesome' New Sniper Rifles

[Garandimal]

Yes. Take the M82 Barrett for example. It is described as an "anti material" rifle and should not be used against unarmored personnel. Now if the shooter and commander suspect armor, that changes the engagement to where it might be used. There are arbitrary (read as stupid) rules the military has to follow.


There are benefits to shooting on the military dime. I fondly remember being enlisted during the Bush years when we would get 17-20K rounds of ammo to qualify 130ish soldiers. Considering it only takes 40 rounds to qualify, a lot of people fired more than once just to get more trigger time. And burn up the ammo.

My uncle was an engineer at the Rock Island Arsenal during Korea.

His marksmanship skills garnered him the additional chore of small arms demonstration technician for the regularly held Brass&Government events.

Always took more than enough ammo out, like an entire jeep-load.

... Never brought a round back.




GR

 

[kcofohio]

My uncle was an engineer at the Rock Island Arsenal during Korea.

His marksmanship skills garnered him the additional chore of small arms demonstration technician for the regularly held Brass&Government events.

Always took more than enough ammo out, like an entire jeep-load.

... Never brought a round back.




GR

Now that's an excellent duty assignment.

 

[FL-NC]

So you’re saying there are areas you can kill hostiles with a 308. But it’s not ok to engage them with a 300WM or NM because it’s too powerful?

I never said anything like that.

So what is the difference in the SDZ of a 7.25x51 miss vs a 300NM hit?

The difference is how shooting ranges are surveyed by the US military, and the potential for rounds to travel outside of a designated impact area into another area. A range set up for the M16 rifle may not be OK to use a 50 BMG weapon, since the SDZ of a 50 BMG can potentially travel far beyond the SDZ of 5.56, and end up in whatever lies beyond that 5.56 SDZ. We could fire all of the 7.62 NATO sniper systems we wanted at the M60/M240 range at Ft Bragg (within the designated safety fan) but not 300 WM or bigger, because of the POTENTIAL for a 300 WM round to land outside of our SDZ, and into a demolition range on the other side. Range complexes on military bases, SDZ's, safety fans, control of airspace, etc. are all fairly intricate.

 

[FL-NC]

But I’m not talking about a 50 and armor. I’m talking about deploying a 308 vs 300. Tell me an instance when I can deploy a 308, but not a 300.

1- When M118 LR is available in supply but the 300 isn't, due to budget, mission priorities, etc..
2- When a range isn't certified for the more powerful round due to SDZ
3- During the early phases of sniper training, using the 308 forces the students to get really good at range estimation and wind calls, since the 308 is less forgiving of errors than the various magnums. When I was an instructor, the M24 (308) was used in the first phase of sniper marksmanship, the MK13 (earlier 300 WM) was used during later stages (unknown distance) and the M110/SR25 (308) was used for the urban phase . The MK12 (5.56) or SCAR17 (308) were used at different times from helos. There was also a course of fire on the M107 (Barrett 50).
4- During the CT Olympics in 2019 in Ecuador when the sniper teams were limited to 308 caliber bolt action rifles. The 7th SFG team selected to compete got Ruger Precision Rifles donated by Ruger for the competition, since the only 308 rifles they had at the time were SR25's (autos) and the M24's were long gone. I helped the 7th Group snipers set up their rifles prior to them spinning up for the match.
There's 4 instances I can think of.

 

[BigBore44]

1- When M118 LR is available in supply but the 300 isn't, due to budget, mission priorities, etc..
2- When a range isn't certified for the more powerful round due to SDZ
3- During the early phases of sniper training, using the 308 forces the students to get really good at range estimation and wind calls, since the 308 is less forgiving of errors than the various magnums. When I was an instructor, the M24 (308) was used in the first phase of sniper marksmanship, the MK13 (earlier 300 WM) was used during later stages (unknown distance) and the M110/SR25 (308) was used for the urban phase . The MK12 (5.56) or SCAR17 (308) were used at different times from helos. There was also a course of fire on the M107 (Barrett 50).
4- During the CT Olympics in 2019 in Ecuador when the sniper teams were limited to 308 caliber bolt action rifles. The 7th SFG team selected to compete got Ruger Precision Rifles donated by Ruger for the competition, since the only 308 rifles they had at the time were SR25's (autos) and the M24's were long gone. I helped the 7th Group snipers set up their rifles prior to them spinning up for the match.
There's 4 instances I can think of.

Ok those I understand. And I do understand a difference in SDZ between a 223/308/300 vs a 50. But not so much between a 308 vs 300. However, having not seen the surveys, or layout, I suppose I can just let that go. The 300 certainly has the potential to travel farther than the 308.

 

[taliv]

But not so much between a 308 vs 300.

308win “falls out of the sky” at 800 lol
My 300nm is still supersonic at 2500 yards

ok seriously compare these two tables using a Berger 185 juggernaut at 2700 fps which is imho very hot for the 308win and about as good as you’re gonna get

red indicator is when it goes subsonic.
note that 300nm has more energy at 2600yd than 308win has at 1300yd.

It’s got legs

 

[jmorris]

I want a rifle that shoots $10/rd. ammo!

No, wait...

Never mind.




GR

Its worse than that, you get to pay not only for the ammo but the rifle too and don’t get to shoot it...

 

[herrwalther]

But I’m not talking about a 50 and armor. I’m talking about deploying a 308 vs 300. Tell me an instance when I can deploy a 308, but not a 300.

My example is an instance of using rifle A instead of rifle B. There are many reasons in the military that exist for why we can't use something, even if that something makes sense. When I was in, 300 was not as available to rank and file troops. Our long range rifles on my deployment were M16A4 (tuned to slightly better than rattle grade), M14 EBR, M24, and M82/107. We had nothing that worked in the realm of 300Win mag. I can think of many instances where 300 would have benefited us greatly.

Here is a no joke silly Army story to demonstrate where brass decisions don't make sense when it comes to taking care of targets. We did a patrol to a village not far from our base. We set up this high risk patrol by inserting an overwatch platoon on a ridge near the village the night before. Now this is Afghanistan where things aren't as close to each other as they were in most of Iraq's fighting. The platoon on overwatch had one designated sniper with a handful of designated marksmen. Because of this, the DMs took their rifles (M16A4) and the actual sniper took the Barrett 50. Because it was the best rifle to overwatch the village where the rest of the patrol would be. During overwatch the sniper saw something the rules said he could shoot but he wasn't allowed to on an "unarmored" target. But command did give us approval to call in artillery or rotary wing attack helicopters to deal with the threat. In essence, 50BMG is too powerful on an unarmored person but artillery and airborne weapons are just fine.

 

[d2wing]

The stupidity of brass decisions is amazing, I think it starts with Presidents and brass that want to make life and death decisions just because they can. Or policies for the political correct. We had some real head scratchers too in the Nam. It is so offensive to kill someone with the wrong bullet. But appreciating the information.