Wal-Mart Attack: What Would You Do?

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Can't carry concealed in Texas Walmarts.
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Im waiting untill the law gets changed to "you can damn well carry anyplace you have a legal right to be" before i bother with a ccw.
 
Can't carry concealed in Texas Walmarts.
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Tell THAT to all the baggy-pants guys with the glock shaped item in their pocket!!
The only place I won't CCW is on federal property.
 
No one should have a greater stake in personal security than themself. Now, due to age, physical disability, etc, some must rely greatly on others for personal security. For everyone else though, why should I incur risk to my freedom, financial security, and health because they are unwilling to take responsibility for their own safety? If people are interested in taking steps towards assuming responsibility for their personal security, I will assist to the extent my minimal knowledge and skills allow. Unless there are extraordinary extenuating circumstances though, I refuse to play the role of sheepdog in the often quoted analogy for anyone other than my family.

Shadowangel said:
Can you name one person ever getting in trouble for JUST calling 911? I doubt it. You have no LEGAL obligation to fight. Being afraid of getting dragged into an investigation over making a phone call to help someone is pretty paranoid. You'd just have to live with yourself knowing you had the means to save a life, and instead made a call and went home for movie night.
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I think you do not fully understand my comment. The “throw away” cell phone strategy is simply a way for me to provide assistance while minimizing risk and inconvenience to myself. Yes, I said inconvenience. In addition, in all honesty, I have never felt very comfortable dealing w/ LE in their official capacity.

BTW, trying to play on my conscience, using shame to make me reconsider my stance, is ineffective.
 
QUOTE: " I have never felt very comfortable dealing w/ LE in their official capacity."

I have no interest in getting hooked into some police investigation. if I'm right there when it happens of course I'd do what I could to stop it . But if store security wants credit for catchin, the BG & I just get to leave a silver bullet as I slip out the back I'm down.
 
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Re: Can't CCW in Texas stores... Incorrect. If you live in a state that allows CCW and you are a CCW permit holder, you can carry in Wal-Mart. There are some individual stores that supposedly put up the no gun signs at the door, but are generally taken down when the manager is informed. Even then, the signs reference the "UNLICENSED" possession of a firearm. We all know that doesn't stop BG, but it also doesn't stop a lawfully permitted carrier, either.

There is no corporate policy against CCW (at least for the customers).

--jcd
 
Good thing for her he got involved because she would have died from old age waiting for any Walmart "security" to do it's job .

The so called security at my local Walmarts are busy talking on the phone even while driving around the lot , provided they even move their cars , most of the time they park at the extreme back of the lots and just sit there unless they need to use the rest room or get some food .
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The security guards by my walmart can't even speak english. They can speak creole and a little spanish but no english. However there are always one or two sherriffs at the store at all times.
 
Security in any place isn't there to protect you. They are there to protect the interests of the people who pay them, to be good witnesses, and retain people til the fuzz arrives. They're not there to protect people at their own peril.

Whether they can speak english, are watching, and are nearby is irrelevant, really.

Your personal security is up to you. You may wind up with me nearby to help, or you might wind up with someone like Treo or BSF nearby who won't help. There's no way to know. So, you plan for the worst and hope for the best.
 
To Wheelgun Slinger

YOU MIGHT WANT TO GO BACK AND READ WHAT I ACTUALLY WROTE THERE HERO

If I'm an actual witness to some guy beating on a woman and trying to drag her into a car, I would absolutely intervene.

But once that's done if there's anyway possible that I can get out of there W/out getting involved W/ the aftermath, I'm gone dude!

What I won't do ( as I have made clear several times) is "run to the sound of the guns "
I have zero interest in being a hero, I'll leave that to you.
 
What I won't do ( as I have made clear several times) is "run to the sound of the guns "
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A perfectly rational choice, as far as I'm concerned. I would, but I'm LEO and it's part of my life choice. I'm glad to see you've actually got a logical framework to make plans on when the SHTF.
 
What I won't do ( as I have made clear several times) is "run to the sound of the guns "
I have zero interest in being a hero, I'll leave that to you.
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I have 0 interest in being a hero, myself. However, I have a different perspective when it comes to these things than yourself. And, that's okay, I think.

I'll take the fallout and the scrutiny because I've taken the time and spent the money on an education in Criminal Justice.
 
Different Perspectives

I have no problem W/ your perspective I have a problem W/ this statement.

QUOTE: " or you might wind up with someone like Treo or BSF nearby who won't help."

I resent the implication that I would be near enough to see what's happening & still not respond.
 
The Walmart closest to me seems to be a gathering point for the dregs of society anymore. I used to work alot of 3-11 shifts and would go shopping afterwards. Big mistake. The parking lot always had a few people that seemed to be eyeing up the customers as they entered the store. Police have a presence in the area as well, but not nearly enough in the parking area after about 10pm. I hated putting up with being asked for change, a ride, or similar no less than 5 times inside and outside the store. The final straw was when my wife and I were there in the early evening one night and a guy was trying to get a ride and decided to follow us to our car after we declined. His approach was "I don't care how but you guys are giving me a ride down the street". Put his hand in his pocket and started walking straight at me mumbling vulgarities. Verbal warnings failed, so I sprayed him with Vexor OC spray. I was armed but he didn't display a weapon at this point. He ran away in apparently significant discomfort, and that was the last time we went to that store. I'm always aware of my surroundings and wouldn't hesitate to assist someone who was being accosted in the parking lot of wherever I may be at the moment.
 
Since there is really no discussion of tactics, I think the only useful purpose this thread serves is to help someone evaluate their available responses and try to come to an educated decision on what their course of action will be in a similar situation. I am not going to disparage anyone if they claim they would jump into the fray. On the contrary, I wish them good luck. They may need it. Let us list some of the ways intervention could land you in a world of hurt.

  • Suspect(s) pull an edged weapon when the do-gooder intervenes.
  • Suspect(s) pull a gun when the do-gooder intervenes.
  • Suspect(s) is unarmed but is a hulking brute and pummels do-gooder.
  • Do-gooder dies or is maimed due to gunshot and edged weapon wounds.
  • Do-gooder employs lethal force and kills or maims someone. In theory, killing real bad guys is good. In actuality it will inconvenience you at the best or destroy you at the worst. Expect to have property confiscated; be arrested; spend time in jail; be treated as a criminal.

This is obviously an incomplete list.

Being fair, let us list the ways intervention could benefit you.

  • Damsel in distress is a beautiful woman with huge knockers and thanks you in ways not appropriate to discuss here.
  • Local tv/radio station crowns you hero.
  • Damsel in distress is daughter of local car dealership owner and he offers you a free oil change from the service department.
  • You go home feeling good about yourself because you helped someone who is unwilling or unable to help themselves.
 
Since there is really no discussion of tactics, I think the only useful purpose this thread serves is to...come to an educated decision on what their course of action will be in a similar situation. - bsf
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I agree with you. I wonder, though, how many of our plans would evaporate when an actual situation arises?

Here's my reasoning: when we think about a scenario we control all the variables, responses and outcomes - reality is different.

Don't get me wrong, I think having something of a plan is probably a good idea (such as Treo stated about running toward the sound of gunshots), but speaking in definitives is not something I can do: there is to much variation out there for me to know with any accuracy how I'd respond.

Maybe I'd get involved, maybe I wouldn't. Most likely the scenario will help me decide :). The best plan may be something like "I'll decide on a course of action once I have an idea of what is happening."

Thanks,
DFW1911
 
I wonder, though, how many of our plans would evaporate when an actual situation arises?
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Good point. I wonder what if any plan the good samaritan in the video had made ahead of time? Who knows? He may have been the kind who never gets involved in other people's business and who doesn't CCW. But when a woman was being slammed to the ground right next to him - he acted without thinking. And could have paid dearly for it.
 
One would have thought a gorilla like WalMart would have been able to invest a couple of more bucks in their video system. The video presented is of such poor quality that the model of the vehicles cannot even be determined, let alone the identity of the victim or the perps.

No worries, though. I'm sure the video cameras watching over the merchandise are much better. Keep an eye on the Britney Spears CD's, screw the customers..
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They do use expensive camera systems for union busting and merchandise protection. Yet out in the lot, they often have bad cameras or no cameras. Wal-Mart is the epitome of the greedy corporate world if you ask me.
 
DFW1911 said:
I wonder, though, how many of our plans would evaporate when an actual situation arises?
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“No plan survives first contact” is a saying that comes to mind. Still, I think polite, calm, intelligent discussion can help with mindset. Mindset is crucial. In addition, planning is important even if plans need to be flexible to accommodate unknown variables and dynamic situations. Now if you are not honest w/ yourself during planning, when the SHTF you are likely to toss all your plans out the window. People need to be brutally honest with themselves and not pose for others.

For me, being brutally honest means acknowledging I value control more than an unburdened conscience. I do not feel confident I can manipulate LE well enough to retain control. Therefore, I am very careful about pursuing courses of action that could lead me to adversarial relationships with LE. This is not an insult to LE.
 
"They do use expensive camera systems for union busting and merchandise protection. Yet out in the lot, they often have bad cameras or no cameras."

And you know this how? No need to bust a union that doesn't exist.

"Wal-Mart is the epitome of the greedy corporate world if you ask me."

The epitome, huh? So, explain why our CEO's office has the same 1970's paneling from Sam's day? Ever seen the corporate digs of a major oil company? Expense accounts? Guess who pays for that?

Grow up, use your head and stop being a lemming. Most of all, stop popping off about things you no nothing about except what your shop steward tells you to think.

--jcd
 
"They do use expensive camera systems for union busting and merchandise protection. Yet out in the lot, they often have bad cameras or no cameras."
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The main reason for the cameras all over the stores isn't for merchandise protection so much as for lawsuit protection. Wal Mart has deep pockets and it's far easier to steal $100K's from them in a fake injury lawsuit than by pocketing a can of tuna. On the other hand, when a friend of mine broke her ankle by stepping in a pothole in the parking lot as she got out of her car, Wal Mart looked at the video and paid all her medical expenses, no hassle, no questions asked. How's that for an "evil greedy corporation"? ;)
 
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