Wanye is out of his mind

[Carl N. Brown]

What Wayne said about video games and gorn:

And here's another dirty little truth that the media try their best to
conceal: There exists in this country a callous, corrupt and corrupting
shadow industry that sells, and sows, violence against its own people.

Through vicious, violent video games with names like Bulletstorm,
Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat and Splatterhouse. And here’s one:
it’s called Kindergarten Killers. It’s been online for 10 years. How come
my research department could find it and all of yours either couldn’t or
didn’t want anyone to know you had found it?

Then there’s the blood-soaked slasher films like "American Psycho"
and "Natural Born Killers" that are aired like propaganda loops on
"Splatterdays" and every day, and a thousand music videos that
portray life as a joke and murder as a way of life. And then they have
the nerve to call it "entertainment."

But is that what it really is? Isn't fantasizing about killing people as a
way to get your kicks really the filthiest form of pornography?
In a race to the bottom, media conglomerates compete with one
another to shock, violate and offend every standard of civilized
society by bringing an ever-more-toxic mix of reckless behavior and
criminal cruelty into our homes — every minute of every day of
every month of every year.

A child growing up in America witnesses 16,000 murders and 200,000
acts of violence by the time he or she reaches the ripe old age of 18.
And throughout it all, too many in our national media … their corporate
owners … and their stockholders … act as silent enablers, if not
complicit co-conspirators. Rather than face their own moral failings,
the media demonize lawful gun owners, amplify their cries for more
laws and fill the national debate with misinformation and dishonest
thinking that only delay meaningful action and all but guarantee that
the next atrocity is only a news cycle away.

Criticism about what is accepted in entertainment, but no call for bans. Unless a call for introspection is too much for the industry.

My version of "Call of Doom" would have a scenario where you are Hugh Thompson at My Lai village during the massacre. And not stopping unnecessary killing would get you the firing squad for failure of duty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

 

[BLB68]

I'm of two minds on the video game thing.

The vast majority of people know the difference between entertainment and reality. My brother in law could kill you with a shovel -- repeatedly -- in a FPS when he was a teenager. Well, he still can, but now he works for a game company and doesn't play as much. He does not have a violent bone in his body.

On the other hand, there are a large number of little gits who play games that have absolutely no respect for anyone else and use foul and abusive language as their main means of social outlet while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. Perhaps they've always been there, but there are certainly more healthy outlets for them than video games. They live in a world where there aren't any consequences for their anti-social behavior.

On the third hand, people have been complaining about "kids these days" since Socrates (or Plato, attributing to Socrates).

I think the bigger issue in media is that the names of these murders get published, and so much attention lavished on them. So, instead of a quiet suicide, they decide to leave their "mark" just like the last guy. If we could convince the media and LE to redact the names and any identifying traits of these shooters, perhaps that'd help.

 

[109Hammer]

I guess my biggest issue with Wanye is how scripted it seemed. Showing a totally dated video game and going into too much detail and drolling on. He came across as nuts to those who don't have firearms.

Personally i would have made the same points in brevity, by shifted the focus on to the accountability of the killer, not the tool. No one ever really blames the beer can or the brewer for the person killed in a DUI accident.

 

[Warp]

What Wayne said about video games and gorn:


Criticism about what is accepted in entertainment, but no call for bans. Unless a call for introspection is too much for the industry.

My version of "Call of Doom" would have a scenario where you are Hugh Thompson at My Lai village during the massacre. And not stopping unnecessary killing would get you the firing squad for failure of duty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Thompson,_Jr.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

Good post!

You are one of the few who either actually listened to or read the complete speech, and who also has the ability to understand what was said, without adding straw men. Good job.

 

[Deanimator]

Thats what they are blaming? If they would stop with the fingerpointing and give some REAL idea on how to fend off these horrible issues.

Ok, what IS the solution?

 

[beatledog7]

The argument for funding of guards in schools has a solution that I posted in part several days ago, and was poo-poo'd as irrelevant by one of our esteemed moderators: school vouchers and/or a school tax opt-out.

Have those who wish to send their children to public schools continue to pay property taxes to their local authorities (that's far and away the most common funding mechanism). For those who will home school, send their children to a private school, or have no children, allow them to skip that tax. Further, for a school year in which the property tax has already been paid but that family's children will not need the public facility, calculate the amount that would supposedly have gone to pay for each child who's now not going to be a burden on the public system, and give that money back to the child's parents to assist in funding the non-public alternative.

You would not need both programs: once the opt-out process is in full swing, the vouchers would be redundant. If you have an accurate and auditable voucher program, the tax opt-out would not be needed (the voucher would function like a tax refund).

With this in place, those who grouse about paying for something they don't use (like much of what the federal gov't buys with your tax dollars now, BTW) can rest easy since they are only going to be compelled to pay based on the number of children they have in public school. If none, then they pay zero. So the only people paying Joe the Guard at the Fifth Street Elementary School would be the parents of the children whom Joe guards. With more dollars in their pockets, parents who wish to pay for private education or home school can better afford to do so.

Competition among private schools would drive them to improve their services, manage their pricing through cost efficiencies, etc. Their drive to hire good teachers and recruit quality students then demonstrate that they can provide an affordable, quality education will make these private schools a very attractive option for parents. And they could offer whatever specialty classes and programs and security measures their customers want and are willing to fund.

Public schools would be at least partially relieved of much of what they currently claim makes their job too hard now: large class sizes and crowded facilities. They would be compelled to improve as well due to lost revenue to the private schools, lest they continue to lose attendance to their more effective and more efficient competition. Or they might simply not be able to compete and would thus go away.

I can easily imagine a community with a market-driven cadre of competing and maybe collaborating private schools. Some would be inexpensive, others very expensive, and most somewhere in between, just like anything else on the open market. Such a community would have no public school system at all because it isn't needed. It would also have no school tax, no school board, and no need to provide or pay for school security. It would, however, have safe and well-educated children with happy parents.

 

[BLB68]

Frankly, the most effective short term solution is the one proposed by the NRA: Armed guards/LE on campus.

 

[lobo9er]

armed guards and GETTING RID OF GUN FREE ZONES.

 

[22-rimfire]

I believe the "school tax" system would fall apart if people could opt in and out based on circumstance. Then you would see state and local sales tax increase to compensate. But to me there is a lot of philosphical merit to charging people who use the system and not charging those that do not.

 

[Fremmer]

Hey, do you think that maybe we have a problem with not being proactive enough when a very mentally ill person needs help right away? Perhaps that might have something to do with all of this? It's not the gun's fault.

And the armed guard solution doesn't have to be police officers. It can be volunteer retired police or military. The NRA is exactly right about this.

 

[beatledog7]

I believe the "school tax" system would fall apart if people could opt in and out based on circumstance.

If it did, then the requirement for parents to put their children through an education program would still drive the establishment of private alternatives to fill the void left by he failed public system.

Then you would see state and local sales tax increase to compensate.

That is what must not be allowed to happen. Whatever system is in place to fund public schools (property taxes by compulsion, and in some states lotteries by voluntary action) must be the only source of funds. A truly competitive system requires a level playing field to start, with no government imposed artificial barriers to entry and no artificial advantages granted to the public system, including the sort of funding sleight of hand you described.

 

[kwguy]

The thing I like about the NRA's proposal is that when the anti's all say we need to do something "Now Now Now!", using their momentum to push some stupid AWB through, Wayne comes up with something that we can do really quickly, and that is effective, and they don't like it because it messes with their misguided worldview.

 

[pseudonymity]

To everybody that is concerned with the NRA statements regarding video games, please remember that it is pretty unlikely that any meaningful legislation regarding any type of media will come out of this tragedy. If you care equally about both video games and guns, please remember that nobody is pushing for video game control legislation, while your gun rights are in severe danger. How much do you really care about what somebody thinks about your games versus how much somebody will control your guns.

If I need a heart transplant, and my only real option for a surgeon is a half-mad, rascist Satan worshiper, he is still doing the surgery if he can get the job done. Are you paying the NRA because you like the way they dress and talk, or because they are the best equipped organization that can have real effects on gun control legislation?

If there is a better option than the NRA available, by all means please post it. I would not suggest that you ignore the NRA positions either, but to withdraw your support now or not fund them could effect what you can do, while any position on video games or other media just effects what other people think about your pastimes.

 

[danez71]

Originally Posted by Napalm
....I dont have any moral issues playing video games and watching violent movies...Wanye can kiss my ass

Napalm plays video games and watches violent movies.....then engages in posting hostile remarks towards another person.....hummmm?.......you just verified the exact point Wayne was making.

Read back in the thread. I never posted this, someone edited a quote.

Well lets take a look at your OP, that is unedited, that you started this thread with:

THis guys has to be kidding me...Videogames, movies?

Thats what they are blaming? If they would stop with the fingerpointing and give some REAL idea on how to fend off these horrible issues.

I dont have any moral issues playing video games and watching violent movies...Wanye can kiss my ass

This is the last year for my NRA membership

Yep. You said it.

I dont know why you would be in denial now.

 

[Yo Mama]

Let's get the data and see if it's effective. And then let parents and school boards figure out how to pay for them....without hitting up the rest of us.

It also speaks to 'who's responsibility' is it to protect other people's kids. Parents most definitely have the primary responsibility here.

I dont have kids. Why is THIS entitlement ok? Why should I pay? Why 'cant' parents? THere are fund-raisers, grants, charities. Isnt that where we're supposed to get the $$ for entitlements, not the govt?

This is why the nation is in trouble. No it's not your problem right? People still refuse to make a child the priority, regardless if they are YOUR child. Sorry, but these comments make you look pretty heartless.

 

[Warp]

It's like I've been telling people IRL for awhile.

Protecting our children from gunmen in schools isn't worth the money.

Plain and simple. People either don't care because it isn't THEIR kids, or they realize that the chances of dying to a gunmen are so slim that spending that kind of money isn't logical.

 

[gossamer]

So I guess according to many people on this thread, the mom allowing the Sandy Hook perpetrator to lock himself in his room all day watching violent video games had no bearing on his mental illness?

As to what the NRA proposed, at least they are doing something now as opposed to the politicians who want to wait until next month. And no, waiting for the new Congressional session is not an excuse.

First, Aspergers is not a condition resulting from being in a locked room playing anything. Lets get off this idea that anyone "did" this to him or contributed to it. My best friends son has Aspergers, his parents didn't create his condition or help manifest it and he's not harmed anyone ever. He is statistically more likely to be harmed by a gun than harm with one.

Second, where is the evidence that this shooting occurred because of his mental illness? We've managed to create a causal relationship here on thr that investigators haven't even found?

Finally, where is the story about him playing violent video games?

 

[gossamer]

He didn't mention the psych meds that most of the shooters were on, did he?

Or the ones they used to be on, like SSRIs. If we continue to mess with people's brain chemistry in the huge amount we do, we should expect nothing different.

To the point: insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting different results. In the debate about curbing mass shootings, the NRA demonstrates it is no less insane than the antis. They are fine at securing gun rights, but they really don't have anything to offer in helping curb gun violence or mass shootings. I honestly wish they'd publicly own that fact and just stay out of it until the rkba comes up and lend their expertise there.

 

[larryh1108]

I think you need to do your own research.

It has been shown he had a mental illness. I never read or heard it was caused by playing violent video games in news reports. However it was present in him.

I've read and heard from the news that he did indeed play violent video games for hours but the news has been less than accurate from the very biginning on this tragedy.

Since you know someone with the same illness, are you stating that this illness did not contribute to his attack or that having this illness doesn't guarantee he will do something tragic. No one is blaming the illness but are speculating as to the causes. I don't believe that we'll ever know the real causes but they are reporting what they do know and comparing it to past incidents to see if there is any similarities in the motives.

So, he did have a mental illness.
He did play violent video games (reported)
He did murder innocent people.
Are they related to (similar history) or just coincidence to previous recent mass killings?

 

[gossamer]

No. Just....no.

Factually incorrect.

Violent crime continues to fall.

I'd also like to point out that violent crime continues to fall as "violent" video game (fps) sales increase dramatically.

 

[Warp]

Violent video game sales, up.

Gun sales, ownership, and carry, up.

Violent crime, down.

 

[larryh1108]

Skewing numbers?

Violent video games using military type weapons, up.

Mass muders using military type weapons by young adult males, up.

We can use statistics to show almost anything we want.

 

[Warp]

Skewing numbers?

Violent video games using military type weapons, up.

Mass muders using military type weapons by young adult males, up.

We can use statistics to show almost anything we want.

Definition of "military type weapons"?

Not examples. Definition, please.

PS: There are not statistics in your posts. Statistic would be numbers, with sources. Not just statements.

 

[boatmanschneider]

My concern with a likely reaction to these events is a liberal "mental issue" law that immediately restricts lawful ownership of weapons until you are proven not to be a threat. Then anti gun activists can simply claim you have"issues" and may be threat. Your weapons would be confiscated until you prove otherwise. If you own the weapon for "unreasonable" purposes they might not be returned. What is a reasonable purpose? Who decides?

This could be a very dangerous law, and very easy to pass.

 

[beatledog7]

Quote:
Let's get the data and see if it's effective. And then let parents and school boards figure out how to pay for them....without hitting up the rest of us.
Quote:
It also speaks to 'who's responsibility' is it to protect other people's kids. Parents most definitely have the primary responsibility here.
Quote:
I dont have kids. Why is THIS entitlement ok? Why should I pay? Why 'cant' parents? THere are fund-raisers, grants, charities. Isnt that where we're supposed to get the $$ for entitlements, not the govt?

To these, Yo Mama replied:

This is why the nation is in trouble. No it's not your problem right? People still refuse to make a child the priority, regardless if they are YOUR child. Sorry, but these comments make you look pretty heartless.

No, this is not why the nation is in trouble. It's how we fix the trouble. The concept of collectivism combined with a willingness to devolve personal accountability to "the system" is why we're in the mess we're in.

Then came this:

It's like I've been telling people IRL for awhile.

Protecting our children from gunmen in schools isn't worth the money.

Plain and simple. People either don't care because it isn't THEIR kids, or they realize that the chances of dying to a gunmen are so slim that spending that kind of money isn't logical.

Parents bear the primary responsibility for the safety of their children. No matter how much I care about someone else's children--and I do care--as long as I'm not the parent of those children or officially in charge of them on a temporary basis (as a teacher or babysitter, and even then there are parental guidances that I still must follow), I'm not in a position to make decisions regarding their care. Nor is the state or community. Nor is the federal government. Except in cases where parents are demonstrably a danger to their children, we just need to back away and allow them to--no, compel them to--parent those children.

Will we see parents pulling Sally or Johnny from schools because they think a gunman is going to blow them away the next time they attend? No, we won't. A few might take such an extreme measure, but by and large as soon as the Christmas break ends, the parents who are beating the "Keep our kids safe!" and "more gun control now!" drums will send their children right back to schools that sit squarely in the same make-believe gun-free zones they sat in before Sandy Hook. Why? Because they don't really think their children are in danger; they're just leveraging Sandy Hook to push their already-in-place anti-gun agenda.

Analogy time: When a 737 crashes and they discover an at-fault design flaw, there is a call for all 737s to be grounded until they are proven free of the flaw. That means the FAA is serious about fixing the problem. Similarly, a mandated dismissal of all schools until safety measures are in place would indicate a real seriousness, and an honest belief on the part of government, that the children are in danger. Nationwide mass truancy would indicate an honest belief on the part of parents that their children are not safe at school. They claim to know what's at fault, but they decline to stop the risky activity for as long as it takes to get the fault fixed.

We will see neither a mandated dismissal nor mass truancy.