Second time you've said that. You realize that some of us "small women" are selfish enough to think that moving large objects to save our own lives would be acceptable, too, right? Stop with the nonsense. If you are only willing go above and beyond for your children, your mindset sucks and shouldn't even be included in the definition.
Warrior mindset?
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Second time you've said that. You realize that some of us "small women" are selfish enough to think that moving large objects to save our own lives would be acceptable, too, right? Stop with the nonsense. If you are only willing go above and beyond for your children, your mindset sucks and shouldn't even be included in the definition.
Shadow 7D
Member
Fools rush, where others fear to tread
The Akido quotes are really applicable
I believe it was Eisenhower who told Truman that a true Pacifist is a soldier, because unlike any flower child (thats me in a very bad paraphrase) a soldier understands the cost of war.
Part of a warriors mindset is understanding the situation and the cost of action, and inaction.
The Akido quotes are really applicable
I believe it was Eisenhower who told Truman that a true Pacifist is a soldier, because unlike any flower child (thats me in a very bad paraphrase) a soldier understands the cost of war.
Part of a warriors mindset is understanding the situation and the cost of action, and inaction.
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Powerglide
Member
Remember, you are fighting for yourself but most of all, your family/friends.
easyg
Member
Another falsehood.
One does need to be a soldier to understand the cost of war.
If you don't believe me, just ask any mother or father who has lost a son or daughter over in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Just because a person is a pacifist or a "flower child" that does not mean that they can't comprehend and understand the horrors of war.
There's no logic to such a notion.
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
Folks,
High-flown notions of service to God and country have no real place in discussions of the mindset of armed citizens.
Neither do the horrors of war... let's keep this on topic for S&T, please.
lpl
High-flown notions of service to God and country have no real place in discussions of the mindset of armed citizens.
Neither do the horrors of war... let's keep this on topic for S&T, please.
lpl
Shadow 7D
Member
No I was just pointing out the example of pacifist, because many people WISH for peace without understanding what it costs. The same can be said for safety, safe isn't always the easiest, and that is part of the understanding that one must culture and remember when you walk around in white or decide to take a short cut instead of being vigilant.
Demitrios
Member
My own personal "tao".
I grew up fighting (not formally), I was a bouncer for many years and I've done a lot of soul searching for this answer. What I've come up with is that there are three thing that make up a human being.
1. Emotion - A conscious mental reaction to any given situation.
2. Mental - Your mode/way of thinking.
3. Physical - Your perception based on your senses.
Basically these three things (your heart/mind/body) make a human being. Similar to a clover leaf each leaf is unique but meet at the stem and create a being.
Put simply my belief is that you have these three things that make you, you. They play as checks and balances to one another and can empower or inhibit the other. Learn to control each of them so that if/when one is lacking the other(s) can empower that lacking faculty(s).
Know what makes you, learn to control what makes you and you can bend anything you need to to your will.
I grew up fighting (not formally), I was a bouncer for many years and I've done a lot of soul searching for this answer. What I've come up with is that there are three thing that make up a human being.
1. Emotion - A conscious mental reaction to any given situation.
2. Mental - Your mode/way of thinking.
3. Physical - Your perception based on your senses.
Basically these three things (your heart/mind/body) make a human being. Similar to a clover leaf each leaf is unique but meet at the stem and create a being.
Put simply my belief is that you have these three things that make you, you. They play as checks and balances to one another and can empower or inhibit the other. Learn to control each of them so that if/when one is lacking the other(s) can empower that lacking faculty(s).
Know what makes you, learn to control what makes you and you can bend anything you need to to your will.
SSN Vet
Member
This is an interesting thread and I just googled and read an article about OODA cycles and rapid orientation tripwires that transition into automatic action....
Though my personal experience with any of this is very, very limited, I can share one little personal anecdote which has established a definite tripwire for me.
If anyone ever slaps a pool cue out of your hand (or the hand of your partner)... you missed all the clues and are well into the process of being jumped... ACT NOW... and don't waste precious seconds wondering "now why did he do that?"
Don't ask me how I know.... it's been 27 years and I'm still ashamed of how I choked.
Though my personal experience with any of this is very, very limited, I can share one little personal anecdote which has established a definite tripwire for me.
If anyone ever slaps a pool cue out of your hand (or the hand of your partner)... you missed all the clues and are well into the process of being jumped... ACT NOW... and don't waste precious seconds wondering "now why did he do that?"
Don't ask me how I know.... it's been 27 years and I'm still ashamed of how I choked.
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innerpiece
Member
alot of folks shure seem to know alot about being a warrior..
good thread for reading so many personal opinions. but I dont think I want to read the word "warrior" for a nother day or two lol.
IMO, training is important.
but folks without training may come out better in a given situation then a person with "training"..
Its hard to predict the most important factor, 'reaction', untill youve been in a situation that would call for 'training'.
when I was studying a specific martial art, one of my instructors told me, " the color of a belt can be a false sence of accomplishment"..
ip.
good thread for reading so many personal opinions. but I dont think I want to read the word "warrior" for a nother day or two lol.
IMO, training is important.
but folks without training may come out better in a given situation then a person with "training"..
Its hard to predict the most important factor, 'reaction', untill youve been in a situation that would call for 'training'.
when I was studying a specific martial art, one of my instructors told me, " the color of a belt can be a false sence of accomplishment"..
ip.
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Confrontations
B yond,
The above statement was not a statement attributed to my reactions, I know my reactions.
But rather to training people to react! If you have not been in a violent confrontation, a bad one, you do not know for sure how you will react, freeze? Run away? You lecture on fight or flight, but until your student is in their first taste of violence, they do not know how they will react.
In 2004 I was attending an ATC, Annual Training Conference, in Dayton Ohio.
My lovely Wife and I were going to buy a few last minute items, just stepped into the elevator, as my Wife was in front of the buttons I said "Parking bridge is on two Love" As the door was closing a well dressed male/white/early 40s, stepped in glass in hand (martini?) he is now between us.
He looked at me, old, Grey beard, 5-11s and boots, then at Pauline, who looked 35, but was 60, she looks Indian, Guyanese, dressed impeccable, as always, and he stated "I need a hug" and lifted his left foot to step forward, to wards my wife, glass in right hand, arms outstretched!
As his left foot raised, I came from behind, on his left side, low, and arm barred him into the back of the lift, he struck the cart protector at the rear, hard.
He did not spill his drink, seasoned drinker? My momentum put me in front of my Wife, I told him "Stay where you are, keep away from my Wife" Left hand pointing.
No thought, his foot lifted, I moved. My Wife was frozen in place, eyes big! I took her by the arm, we left.
At that time I was 69 YOA, do the math, 74 now. I was CCW (Florida CCW) at this time, not gun time though. My actions were automatic, if this had been my first wee bit of aggression? What would I have done?
A quick lesson in body tactics, redirect, never take hold. Holding anchors you!
It was only later that I realized the trigger was most likely the glass, but also he was not going to be allowed to physically touch my Wife.
B yond,
The above statement was not a statement attributed to my reactions, I know my reactions.
But rather to training people to react! If you have not been in a violent confrontation, a bad one, you do not know for sure how you will react, freeze? Run away? You lecture on fight or flight, but until your student is in their first taste of violence, they do not know how they will react.
In 2004 I was attending an ATC, Annual Training Conference, in Dayton Ohio.
My lovely Wife and I were going to buy a few last minute items, just stepped into the elevator, as my Wife was in front of the buttons I said "Parking bridge is on two Love" As the door was closing a well dressed male/white/early 40s, stepped in glass in hand (martini?) he is now between us.
He looked at me, old, Grey beard, 5-11s and boots, then at Pauline, who looked 35, but was 60, she looks Indian, Guyanese, dressed impeccable, as always, and he stated "I need a hug" and lifted his left foot to step forward, to wards my wife, glass in right hand, arms outstretched!
As his left foot raised, I came from behind, on his left side, low, and arm barred him into the back of the lift, he struck the cart protector at the rear, hard.
He did not spill his drink, seasoned drinker? My momentum put me in front of my Wife, I told him "Stay where you are, keep away from my Wife" Left hand pointing.
No thought, his foot lifted, I moved. My Wife was frozen in place, eyes big! I took her by the arm, we left.
At that time I was 69 YOA, do the math, 74 now. I was CCW (Florida CCW) at this time, not gun time though. My actions were automatic, if this had been my first wee bit of aggression? What would I have done?
A quick lesson in body tactics, redirect, never take hold. Holding anchors you!
It was only later that I realized the trigger was most likely the glass, but also he was not going to be allowed to physically touch my Wife.
easyg
Member
Do you think that your reaction to the jerk wanting to hug your wife had anything to do with a "warrior mindset"?
I suspect not.
It sounds like your actions were spurred by the primal male dominance factor that affects so many species, including man.
easyg
That Warrior Mindset is going to follow me into the grave!! Male dominance? That is way too educated for me, no he was not going to touch my Wife, was just that thought, he was not going to touch my Wife period.
A few people have said, why did you not say this, or that? He had three steps to take! Speaking would have done what?
What would you have done in exactly that same circumstance? This is just to get an other perspective on this, a younger Guy? Not intended to be anything except how do other people think/act.
This is not to put you on the spot, in fact any one can step in, I think I described it exactly as it happened.
That Warrior Mindset is going to follow me into the grave!! Male dominance? That is way too educated for me, no he was not going to touch my Wife, was just that thought, he was not going to touch my Wife period.
A few people have said, why did you not say this, or that? He had three steps to take! Speaking would have done what?
What would you have done in exactly that same circumstance? This is just to get an other perspective on this, a younger Guy? Not intended to be anything except how do other people think/act.
This is not to put you on the spot, in fact any one can step in, I think I described it exactly as it happened.
Yes, you posted this story to Florida Concealed Carry. Your long history as a bouncer has keyed you up in a certain way and you respond as you have trained.
The warrior mindset is not so much about instinctive reaction to threats, but about behaving in all ways such as to survive deadly encounters. Your actions in the elevator were not necessarily warrior-like. They might have been. But if the perp had a gun or knife on him, you might have potentially started a violent battle in the close confines of the elevator with your wife in the crossfire.
A gentle shove back to the wall and a few words would have been less escalative. You can always dial up. If your range runs from 1 to 10, and a 2 or 3 is warranted, but you go to 7 or 8 because you can't help yourself, then you don't have warrior mindset.
Shockwave
The way that you react to a situation is to fix it, my question is, what would you have done! With those exact same circumstances, those exact same measurements?
That was a real life incident, I as a senior citizen dealt with a potential assault to my Wife, if that Jerk (as you said) had touched her, that would have been an assault!
It is hard to to speak of fighting, or physical contact, to none violent humans, because most people who get involved in this type of activity are criminals!
Around here any way.
But if you have been involved in activity's where you have been for 5 years, for three nights a week, not always working that amount of time, but say 3/4 of that time, say around 700 nights, now go into reality, say 10% = 70, of those nights, I was in some form of fight, or potentially be in a fight, an almost shall we say.
That is a lot of physical violence, or the work up to it, and not go that extra step, because you had learned to block it. That is a lot of reality based training.
Coming back to this particular incident, to make it more of a injury to the Jerk!
A neck strike could have been used, but he would most likely have collapsed, into my Wife, I wanted to move him away from her. And I did not need to go any further, unless he had moved forward, which he did not.
The arm bar was what I chose, the wooden barrier made the extra anchor.
It is so very much more easy to criticize than say "I would have done THIS!" then you are open to some one dissecting your actions, because this was real!
Not one of the more normal Situational inventions that are what if's, not what did's. So to say I would have done this, in this case, is a duplication of reality, not fiction.
The way that you react to a situation is to fix it, my question is, what would you have done! With those exact same circumstances, those exact same measurements?
That was a real life incident, I as a senior citizen dealt with a potential assault to my Wife, if that Jerk (as you said) had touched her, that would have been an assault!
It is hard to to speak of fighting, or physical contact, to none violent humans, because most people who get involved in this type of activity are criminals!
Around here any way.
But if you have been involved in activity's where you have been for 5 years, for three nights a week, not always working that amount of time, but say 3/4 of that time, say around 700 nights, now go into reality, say 10% = 70, of those nights, I was in some form of fight, or potentially be in a fight, an almost shall we say.
That is a lot of physical violence, or the work up to it, and not go that extra step, because you had learned to block it. That is a lot of reality based training.
Coming back to this particular incident, to make it more of a injury to the Jerk!
A neck strike could have been used, but he would most likely have collapsed, into my Wife, I wanted to move him away from her. And I did not need to go any further, unless he had moved forward, which he did not.
The arm bar was what I chose, the wooden barrier made the extra anchor.
It is so very much more easy to criticize than say "I would have done THIS!" then you are open to some one dissecting your actions, because this was real!
Not one of the more normal Situational inventions that are what if's, not what did's. So to say I would have done this, in this case, is a duplication of reality, not fiction.
easyg
Member
I suspect that it had more to do with male dominance than you realize.
Would you have reacted in the same way if you had been out with a male friend instead of your wife?
Okay, let's see....
Too be totally honest, I would wait and see what my wife did.
My wife is not your average housewife.
She has been in her share of bars and clubs, and she spent 4 years in the U.S. Army (101st Air Assault Division), and is a Gulf War vet.
She is both an accomplished shooter and an accomplished martial artist.
And it sure as heck wouldn't be the first time a drunken jerk has hit on her (in fact, I might have been drunk myself the first time I hit on her
).Obviously, I would have been ready to flatten the jerk if she needed me to intervene.
But I think she would have handled the idiot just fine without my assistance.
easyg
Member
If you equate preparing to intervene if needed and allowing my wife to deal with the jerk herself to "doing nothing", then yeah.
Surely your wife didn't make it to the age of 60 without having to deal with an amorous drunk or two.
BTW, you never answered....
Would you have reacted in the same way if you had been out with a male friend instead of your wife?
Would you have intervened immediately, as you did with your wife, or would you have waited to see how your male friend would have handled the situation?
Hey Easy, most guys don't want some other guy hugging their wife. That's reality. One reason is that they care more about the wife than they do about their male friend. Now you might not have a problem with some weird drunk guy hugging your wife, but most people will have a problem with it. I'm not sure it has anything to do with a "warrior mindset" (whatever that is), or male dominence, or whatever.
easyg
Member
Don't misunderstand me...
Of course I don't want some guy molesting my wife.
But, as I stated earlier, my wife is a martial artist and a military vet.
If she can't handle a single 40 year old drunk, holding a martini, in an elevator no less, then she should seriously re-evaluate her training.
And, as I have also stated, I would have been there ready to intervene if necessary (perhaps with a rear choke or a "pop" to his ears) .
Besides, I do get a kick out of seeing my wife humiliate and embarrass some silly punk who thinks he's a tough guy.
It's really destroys their ego to get beaten by a female.
I know that a lot of old guys live by a "code of chivalry" of sorts, but I don't subscribe to the notion that all women are helpless little damsels in distress that need a man's protection.
In fact, I kinda detest women who play the part of the "helpless little woman".
I got my lady's back, and she's got mine.
We're a team.
Easy
easyg
Member
You don't know what you're missing brother!
She's just like Angelina Jolie in "Mr. and Mrs. Smith".
To redirect, the warrior mindset has nothing to do with fighting. It is about healing.
The proper mindset helps you react, despite the consequences. That is the point. There are a lot of people that do a lot of things in a given situation, sometimes, those things turn out to be more disastrous to the person than the consequence they avoided... Perfect example would be someone who defended his life against a home invasion, then turns into an alcoholic to "deal" with it, or otherwise starts self medicating. It makes no difference if you are "in the right" or were "doing the right thing".
The proper mindset helps you react, despite the consequences. That is the point. There are a lot of people that do a lot of things in a given situation, sometimes, those things turn out to be more disastrous to the person than the consequence they avoided... Perfect example would be someone who defended his life against a home invasion, then turns into an alcoholic to "deal" with it, or otherwise starts self medicating. It makes no difference if you are "in the right" or were "doing the right thing".
easyg
Member
What?!?!
No.
Warriors are those who wage war.
They are not healers.
A warrior's purpose is to defend against "the enemy" and to destroy "the enemy".
Being a warrior is not about protecting one's wife, nor about healing, nor about reacting in a quick and decisive manner during any given crisis.
It's not about being a leader or a rescuer.
It's about waging war.
The warrior mindset is nothing more than an "us vs them" mentality.
And it's not a very useful mindset outside of war.
In a peacetime society, the warrior mindset can actually cause the afflicted to see enemies where there are none.
It can lead to a delusional state where one feels that they must constantly be on guard against "the enemy" even if there is no enemy.
The "warrior mindset" and the paranoid mindset are but a few degrees from one another.
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