Alllen Bundy
Member
Continuing from:
My Journey From Sig P365 to P365X and Modifications Beyond
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-modifications-beyond.891955/#post-11996270)
P365/X/XL/SAS Grip Module Modifications
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/p365-x-xl-sas-grip-module-modifications.892045/)
Extending the magazine release button
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...zine-release-button-sig-p365-x-xl-sas.892113/)
Weighting the P365/X/XL/SAS Grip Module.
Someone mentioned the possibility of adding a weight to the unused cavity inside the rear of the handgrip. I noticed that my P365X felt top heavy and floppy side to side in my hand when the magazine was near empty. I thought that a little extra weight might help with the balance and it might also reduce muzzle flip and/or recoil a bit.
I made a 1.5 oz lead weight for handgrip. The balance felt better and it eliminated most of the floppiness when the P365X was low on ammunition. Even when the ammunition was low in the magazine, the extra weight kept the beavertail against my hand, and my hand high on the handgrip.
I just tested it on the range. I fired 3 rounds at a time, with one round in the firing chamber and two rounds left in the magazine, and then swapped the handgrip, swapped magazines, and then fired again and swapped the handgrip again and so on.
I'm not sure how much it affected the muzzle flip. I really need a video camera to monitor that. But it did seem to take the edge off of the recoil. Would I testify in court under oath that the recoil was reduced? No. It could be very well be the placebo effect. The time it took to swap the handgrip between the weighted grip and the unweighted grip and swap the magazine was too long. It was also not a night and day difference. I'm going to look into getting an accelerometer that I can attach to the rails on underside of the grip module and try to actually quantify any difference, if any.
When you fire a P365X it basically pivots upward in your hand resulting in some muzzle flip. You can consider the handgrip to be a lever attached to the barrel. Any weight at the end of this lever will tend to resist the rotation of the barrel, and thereby reduce the amount of muzzle flip to some degree. The more weight at the end of the grip, the more resistance to rotation, hence less muzzle flip. Likewise, any increase in mass of the firearm will reduce the effect of the recoil. The question isn't whether or not adding weight to the handgrip will reduce muzzle flip and recoil, but instead: "Will it reduce muzzle flip and recoil significantly enough to notice?"
I weighed the P365X at 1 lb 2.5 oz (18.5 oz) with a empty 12 rd mag. With the magazine loaded with 12 - 115 grain cartridges it weighed 1 lb 7.5 oz (23.5 oz). With the additional 1.5 oz weight, that adds up to 1 lb 9 oz (25 oz). I don't think that most people will notice carrying an additional 1.5 oz.
I consider this experiment a success. The balance feels better. Recoil may have been reduced a bit The grip module looks like it came from the factory with the lead weight installed.
Someone in another discussion mentioned that the P365XL seemed nose heavy. Adding a grip weight will certainly reduce the nose heaviness. Some people seem to think that the additional 1.5 oz is a lot of extra weight to add to a carry gun. But there is an aftermarket all aluminum grip module, that weighs even more, that some people swear by. Different people have different needs and priorities. To each their own.
It took 3 tries but I was finally able to make a good wax impression of the cavity. I used paraffin canning wax, which isn't ideal, but hey, I was only trying to make a lead weight, not fine jewelry. The sides of the cavity inside the handgrip were not parallel and narrowed at the inside, which prevented the wax from being extracted in one piece. I had to carefully sand the sides of the cavity until they were parallel or even opening towards the inside a a little bit. Then I was able to extract the wax impression in one piece.
I made a Plaster of Paris mold from the wax impression. It set up quickly enough, but it was taking forever and a day to dry out completely. The wax form was too grippy and it wouldn't come out of the plaster mold. So I melted the wax out with a heat gun. I also sped up the plaster mold drying with a heat gun. The mold needs to be bone dry before adding the molten lead, as any water content in the plaster could cause steam to form and crack the plaster mold.
I used a propane torch to melt the lead, inside a thrift store stainless steel measuring cup, and I poured a bit too much lead into the mold. But the lead had some extreme shrinkage while it cooled and it left a deep depression in the middle. I reheated the top surface with the propane torch, it melted, but didn't shrink as much when it cooled. You can get lead alloyed with antimony that has zero shrinkage during cooling. But I just melted some lead sheet used for roofing that I had laying around.
The hot ladle is sitting on a silicone pad. And that is a Vice Grip holding the ladle.
After the lead weight cooled, I inverted the mold and the lead weight fell right out. I used way too much lead and I had to file down the excess lead. (You need to be extremely careful handling lead as you don't want to contaminate yourself or your workbench.) After some finishing work on the lead weight, it weighed 1.5 oz.
Left: Raw cast lead weight - Middle: Finished rear of weight - Right: Finished front of weight
I used 100 grit sandpaper to roughen the recess inside the grip module. Then I cleaned it with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol. Just to be extra sure that the lead weight wouldn't come out, I drilled little dimples into the sides of the lead weight for the glue to hold onto. I also cleaned the lead weight with 99.9 isopropyl alcohol.
Finished lead weight next to X/XL grip module.
LeftL Stock X/XL magazine well - - - Right: Lead weight inside magazine well
I glued the lead weight into the recess in the rear of the handgrip with JB Weld Plastic Bonder, which is a high strength a two part urethane based adhesive that remains somewhat flexible after curing. This glue cures rather than drying, so there isn't any shrinkage, or long dry times, which is important because neither the lead weight or the grip module are porous.
The Plastic Bonder sets up in 15 minutes and is fairly well cured in 30 minutes. I'm 99% sure that the lead weight will stay in place. Over 100 rounds fired with no problems. Time will tell. Epoxies are usually hard and brittle and they often react to plastics, so they are not the best choice for this application. If worse came to worse I could always drill sideways through the grip module and lead weight and drive pins through it to hold it in place.
I may try coating the exposed lead weight so that it can't rub off onto anything.
From the top of the grip module looking down into the magazine well.
I will say that JB Weld Plastic Bonder is messy to use. After applying the glue and putting the weight in place, you need to squeeze the lead weight tightly against the grip to force out excess glue, and then carefully wipe off the excess glue. I finished removing traces of excess glue with Q-Tips dipped in 99.9% isopropyl alcohol.
If for some reason you wanted to add even more weight, the options are either expensive or difficult. Or difficultly expensive, depending upon the state of your bank account.
Steel: 490 pounds per cubic foot
Stainless Steel: 494 pounds per cubic foot
Lead: 710 pounds per cubic foot
Tungsten: 1,205 pounds per cubic foot
Gold: 1,205 pounds per cubic foot
Platinum: 1,340 pounds per cubic foot
Gold and platinum would be very easy to cast into weights. The recess in the rear of the handgrip would be a great place to hide an emergency stash of gold or platinum in the form of a weight. As of 07/22/2021 that would work out to about 2.5 oz of gold (2.32 troy oz of gold = $4,201) or 2.83 oz of platinum (2.60 troy oz of Platinum = $2,880).
While it can be used, tungsten is a lot more difficult to form, and not practical for an amateur DIY project.
I also cast a few weights for the P365 grip module. The recess inside the P365 grip module isn't quite as large and it will only hold 1.2 oz of lead weight. Also, as the handgrip is shorter, the effectiveness of the lead weight countering muzzle flip is less.
I should mention again that anyone working with lead should always wash their hands after handling lead and especially before eating.
A weighted handgrip may not be for most people, but I like the way that it feels. It was definitely worth my time and effort.
Next: Polishing the Stripper Rail - Sig P365/X/XL/SAS
My Journey From Sig P365 to P365X and Modifications Beyond
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...nd-modifications-beyond.891955/#post-11996270)
P365/X/XL/SAS Grip Module Modifications
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/p365-x-xl-sas-grip-module-modifications.892045/)
Extending the magazine release button
(https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...zine-release-button-sig-p365-x-xl-sas.892113/)
Weighting the P365/X/XL/SAS Grip Module.
Someone mentioned the possibility of adding a weight to the unused cavity inside the rear of the handgrip. I noticed that my P365X felt top heavy and floppy side to side in my hand when the magazine was near empty. I thought that a little extra weight might help with the balance and it might also reduce muzzle flip and/or recoil a bit.
I made a 1.5 oz lead weight for handgrip. The balance felt better and it eliminated most of the floppiness when the P365X was low on ammunition. Even when the ammunition was low in the magazine, the extra weight kept the beavertail against my hand, and my hand high on the handgrip.
I just tested it on the range. I fired 3 rounds at a time, with one round in the firing chamber and two rounds left in the magazine, and then swapped the handgrip, swapped magazines, and then fired again and swapped the handgrip again and so on.
I'm not sure how much it affected the muzzle flip. I really need a video camera to monitor that. But it did seem to take the edge off of the recoil. Would I testify in court under oath that the recoil was reduced? No. It could be very well be the placebo effect. The time it took to swap the handgrip between the weighted grip and the unweighted grip and swap the magazine was too long. It was also not a night and day difference. I'm going to look into getting an accelerometer that I can attach to the rails on underside of the grip module and try to actually quantify any difference, if any.
When you fire a P365X it basically pivots upward in your hand resulting in some muzzle flip. You can consider the handgrip to be a lever attached to the barrel. Any weight at the end of this lever will tend to resist the rotation of the barrel, and thereby reduce the amount of muzzle flip to some degree. The more weight at the end of the grip, the more resistance to rotation, hence less muzzle flip. Likewise, any increase in mass of the firearm will reduce the effect of the recoil. The question isn't whether or not adding weight to the handgrip will reduce muzzle flip and recoil, but instead: "Will it reduce muzzle flip and recoil significantly enough to notice?"
I weighed the P365X at 1 lb 2.5 oz (18.5 oz) with a empty 12 rd mag. With the magazine loaded with 12 - 115 grain cartridges it weighed 1 lb 7.5 oz (23.5 oz). With the additional 1.5 oz weight, that adds up to 1 lb 9 oz (25 oz). I don't think that most people will notice carrying an additional 1.5 oz.
I consider this experiment a success. The balance feels better. Recoil may have been reduced a bit The grip module looks like it came from the factory with the lead weight installed.
Someone in another discussion mentioned that the P365XL seemed nose heavy. Adding a grip weight will certainly reduce the nose heaviness. Some people seem to think that the additional 1.5 oz is a lot of extra weight to add to a carry gun. But there is an aftermarket all aluminum grip module, that weighs even more, that some people swear by. Different people have different needs and priorities. To each their own.
It took 3 tries but I was finally able to make a good wax impression of the cavity. I used paraffin canning wax, which isn't ideal, but hey, I was only trying to make a lead weight, not fine jewelry. The sides of the cavity inside the handgrip were not parallel and narrowed at the inside, which prevented the wax from being extracted in one piece. I had to carefully sand the sides of the cavity until they were parallel or even opening towards the inside a a little bit. Then I was able to extract the wax impression in one piece.
I made a Plaster of Paris mold from the wax impression. It set up quickly enough, but it was taking forever and a day to dry out completely. The wax form was too grippy and it wouldn't come out of the plaster mold. So I melted the wax out with a heat gun. I also sped up the plaster mold drying with a heat gun. The mold needs to be bone dry before adding the molten lead, as any water content in the plaster could cause steam to form and crack the plaster mold.
I used a propane torch to melt the lead, inside a thrift store stainless steel measuring cup, and I poured a bit too much lead into the mold. But the lead had some extreme shrinkage while it cooled and it left a deep depression in the middle. I reheated the top surface with the propane torch, it melted, but didn't shrink as much when it cooled. You can get lead alloyed with antimony that has zero shrinkage during cooling. But I just melted some lead sheet used for roofing that I had laying around.
The hot ladle is sitting on a silicone pad. And that is a Vice Grip holding the ladle.
After the lead weight cooled, I inverted the mold and the lead weight fell right out. I used way too much lead and I had to file down the excess lead. (You need to be extremely careful handling lead as you don't want to contaminate yourself or your workbench.) After some finishing work on the lead weight, it weighed 1.5 oz.
Left: Raw cast lead weight - Middle: Finished rear of weight - Right: Finished front of weight
I used 100 grit sandpaper to roughen the recess inside the grip module. Then I cleaned it with 99.9% isopropyl alcohol. Just to be extra sure that the lead weight wouldn't come out, I drilled little dimples into the sides of the lead weight for the glue to hold onto. I also cleaned the lead weight with 99.9 isopropyl alcohol.
Finished lead weight next to X/XL grip module.
LeftL Stock X/XL magazine well - - - Right: Lead weight inside magazine well
I glued the lead weight into the recess in the rear of the handgrip with JB Weld Plastic Bonder, which is a high strength a two part urethane based adhesive that remains somewhat flexible after curing. This glue cures rather than drying, so there isn't any shrinkage, or long dry times, which is important because neither the lead weight or the grip module are porous.
The Plastic Bonder sets up in 15 minutes and is fairly well cured in 30 minutes. I'm 99% sure that the lead weight will stay in place. Over 100 rounds fired with no problems. Time will tell. Epoxies are usually hard and brittle and they often react to plastics, so they are not the best choice for this application. If worse came to worse I could always drill sideways through the grip module and lead weight and drive pins through it to hold it in place.
I may try coating the exposed lead weight so that it can't rub off onto anything.
From the top of the grip module looking down into the magazine well.
I will say that JB Weld Plastic Bonder is messy to use. After applying the glue and putting the weight in place, you need to squeeze the lead weight tightly against the grip to force out excess glue, and then carefully wipe off the excess glue. I finished removing traces of excess glue with Q-Tips dipped in 99.9% isopropyl alcohol.
If for some reason you wanted to add even more weight, the options are either expensive or difficult. Or difficultly expensive, depending upon the state of your bank account.
Steel: 490 pounds per cubic foot
Stainless Steel: 494 pounds per cubic foot
Lead: 710 pounds per cubic foot
Tungsten: 1,205 pounds per cubic foot
Gold: 1,205 pounds per cubic foot
Platinum: 1,340 pounds per cubic foot
Gold and platinum would be very easy to cast into weights. The recess in the rear of the handgrip would be a great place to hide an emergency stash of gold or platinum in the form of a weight. As of 07/22/2021 that would work out to about 2.5 oz of gold (2.32 troy oz of gold = $4,201) or 2.83 oz of platinum (2.60 troy oz of Platinum = $2,880).
While it can be used, tungsten is a lot more difficult to form, and not practical for an amateur DIY project.
I also cast a few weights for the P365 grip module. The recess inside the P365 grip module isn't quite as large and it will only hold 1.2 oz of lead weight. Also, as the handgrip is shorter, the effectiveness of the lead weight countering muzzle flip is less.
I should mention again that anyone working with lead should always wash their hands after handling lead and especially before eating.
A weighted handgrip may not be for most people, but I like the way that it feels. It was definitely worth my time and effort.
Next: Polishing the Stripper Rail - Sig P365/X/XL/SAS
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