orionengnr
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^^^
An exceptionally well reasoned and well stated post for a 4-time poster.
An exceptionally well reasoned and well stated post for a 4-time poster.
What If Florida Got Open Carry?
- Thread starter MagnumDweeb
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stuckinsocal
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Here in California, we have 3 forms of carry. 1) CCW, which is virtually impossible to get in most counties. 2) Unloaded Open Carry (UOC), which is legal without a permit, and LUCC- locked, unloaded, concealed carry, which is an unloaded gun in a locked container. Loaded OC is legal under very limited circumstances.
Trust me, if you're carrying a gun you don't want to carry it unloaded, especially a revolver. It should be accessable for immediate use should you need it.
I'm in favor of OC for several reasons, but the biggest reason is that people should be able to carry which ever way they like. If OC is more comfortable, then OC. If you prefer CC to maintain the element of surprise, then CC.
And @ Welldoya; while I do agree to some extent, I also believe that there shouldn't be any double standard about the age of adulthood. I can join the military and die for my country, become a law enforcement officer, and be liable for any crimes I commit at 18, but can't do other things 'adults' can such as drink and carry a gun. It's a total double standard and there's no reason for it. If 18-20 y/o adults can't be 'trusted' with handguns and alcohol, then they shouldn't be trusted in any other way as an adult.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I have said many times, if you carry openly, the thug will just creep up behind you and knock you in the head to take your gun. Or he'll shoot you first.
And the proof of this is cops carry openly, and you can't hardly walk down the street without stepping on the bodies of dead cops who were killed for their guns.
critter
Member
I would like to see an open carry law because I view it as a sign that our government trusts us and honors our freedom.
At the same time, I would not openly carry. My choice. I'd rather the first sign a thug sees that indicates I carry is the gaping maw of my carry weapon and my finger tightly wrapped around the trigger.
At the same time, I would not openly carry. My choice. I'd rather the first sign a thug sees that indicates I carry is the gaping maw of my carry weapon and my finger tightly wrapped around the trigger.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
It is also an uncomfortable gamble to believe that the bad guys aren't going to hurt you anyway.
Wow, that is a lot of interesting claims. So bad guys assume everyone they hassle/rob is carrying concealed and take the same precautions as the cops? That is very interesting. Except for a couple of unique incidents, I can't think of too many muggers and the like proning out their victims on the hood of their car and frisking them from top to bottom.
Now, if you just mean that like the cops, bad guys are going to have the jump on their victims because their victims may be carrying a gun, that is sort of correct. As a general rule, bad guys usually want to have the jump on their intended victims regardless if they think the victims might be armed. Getting the jump on a victim helps the bad guy to be able to control the situation more so than if the intended victim knew that the bad guy was going to rob, rape, or harm him/her.
This is an easy one to answer. First of all, note that guns are used in self defense (as defined by law) in cases other than just muggings. Many ccw folks feel that they will have the time to draw from concealment and protect themselves from bad guys because it happens with some regularity. It isn't that the bad guys are going to necessarily give CCWers the time to draw and shoot, but that they fail to stop the CCWer from drawing and shooting. Guns are drawn from concealment and used for defense sometimes while the bag guy watches or while being distracted. In some cases, guns are drawn from concealment and used for self defense whilst the bad guy is physically attacking the good guy.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=519005&highlight=ccw+stops+robbery
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=437913&highlight=ccw+stops+robbery
http://arkansasgopwing.blogspot.com/2009/03/concealed-carry-foils-wal-mart-robbery.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=371297&highlight=ccw+stops+robbery
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=45280&highlight=ccw+stops+robbery
http://www.examiner.com/self-defens...es-robbery-victim-to-stop-3-violent-attackers (3:1 and the robbers could not stop the draw).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFTChyAgTg
http://www.click2houston.com/news/26362662/detail.html
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2010/...t-holder-shoots-armed-robber-in-self-defense/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...shot-dead-unarmed-mugger-released-charge.html
http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2010/...t-holder-stops-drunken-and-violent-attackers/
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=413920&highlight=draw+on+drawn+gun
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228398&highlight=used+car+salesman
NavyLCDR
member
sloppyjoe
Member
I live in tn. and permit holders can carry open . personally i prefer open carry i realize that it makes some citizens un comfortable but it make criminals run like hell.
todd_g
Member
Michigan is an OC state, but I can honestly say in the 20 years I've lived here I have never actually seen anyone open carry. I have read on line where there are groups that meet in parks and OC while eating BBQ. One of the proplems here is we cannot open carry in a vehicle, the firearm must be unloaded and stored in a container not in reach of the driver so that presents a sort of barricade. I was working in Charleston, WV about 4 years ago and while at a taco bell I saw two gents walk in with pistols holstered on their hips, they looked like farmers or some sort of outside worker. I didn't notice any strange reactions to the two men. Michigan is a "shall issue " state when it comes to CCW or CPL what ever you wish to call it, in my opinion I would rather conceal carry and from what I have seen in the past 20 years I beleive that to be the opinion of most folks that I have ever seen, although after pondering the issue I guess it is nice to have the option.
I would concur with the above statement.
It's ironic but as has been observed, many of the arguments against OC parallel the arguments of anti-2A / anti-gun supporters but come from those with CC permits who regularly CC. I live in Pennsylvania which has been an open carry state for a very long time - not by statute - there is none - it's legal because there is no statute that makes it illegal - nor one which requires a license to OC (except in the city of Philadelphia, and one is also required to ride in any vehicle).
I would add that the debate between CC and OC has been raging for years in PA and will likely rage for years to come. No one will "win" that debate as this is purely a personal choice and each method of carrying has distinct advantages and disadvantages. If you haven't read Mainsail's Essay on OC you owe it to yourself to do so; it may or may not change your mind but it does an excellent job of making you think.
I'm sorry, but what 42 states allow OC currently? I'm not talking about while hunting, fishing or in the woods only. I mean states that allow the sort of "everywhere" open carry people are advocating here. I'm not trying to be difficult, but it seems I've heard that figure before and later found that most of the 42 have restrictions, exceptions and exclusions to OC, rather than a sweeping and unlimited ability to do so anywhere.
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NavyLCDR
member
Last edited:
Vern Humphrey
Member
Virginia, where I used to live, is a true open carry state.
In fact, the CCW law prohibits concealed carry in and establishment that serves alcohol, which means if you take the family to a restaurant, you have to be unarmed, except for the fact that open carry has no such prohibition. So in Virginia it is customary to see concealed carriers take off their covering garment and become open carriers when entering an establishment that serves alcohol.
The map is interesting, but the number of states without any restrictions on OC is much smaller than one would be led to believe by the statement that it's legal in 42 states. It might be allowed, but the majority seem to require permits, rural carry or have the caveat that local laws might prohibit it.
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tablet using Tapatalk Pro.
Miami_JBT
Member
I am tusted at 18 to carry automatic rifles in the service of my country. At 19 I am trusted to carry a pistol as a police officer. Yet you feel that someone that went through a background check, attended training, and made the choice to defend one's self or others shouldn't be able to bcause they are 21.
You sir are a prime example of how we are our own worse enemies.
In Florida you can be a cop at 19 and you can enlist into the armed forces at 17. What makes that. different then wishing to exsercise their rights at 21? These people fight to defend those rigjts with their lives. Just as I have; I enlisted in the army at 18 as a infantry solider and I became a cop at 21. So do not tell me that age is a sign of immaturity. Because I deal with people that are in their 50s and they act like ten year olds.
As a cop I am 100% in favor of open carry. The law abiding citizen should not be restricted in exsercising their rights because you feel uncomrtable or because of the actions of a criminal.
NavyLCDR
member
42 states allow more open carry than Florida does, without any problems. 12 states have completely unlicensed open carry with no more restrictions than on those people who do have licenses, without any problems. In states like Washington, an unlicensed person can open carry everywhere that a licensed person can, except for having a loaded gun in a vehicle and in city-owned stadiums and convention centers that prohibit unlicensed guns, again, without any problems.
So, again.... the question is, why would Florida be any different than any other of these states? Why would open carry be a problem in Florida, when it isn't in the VAST MAJORITY of states in the union? Why would unlicensed open carry be a problem in Florida when it isn't in any of the over 1/2 the states of the union that allow unlicensed open carry?
Aikibiker
Member
If I were going to open carry I would do it in some form of retention holster.
gpr
Member
if we get open carry, i would have to make a bunch of different colored holsters, to go go with different outfitts....that would be one i would have to sell the wife.....
fireside44
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Open or concealed, we need more cops with your sensible mindset my friend.
With the number of tourists here, open carry in FL would be a great way to educate the world on the carry of firearms.
pikid89
Member
Ive been following this bill for a while now and i sure hope that it passes
I was walking across campus today at UF and i stopped to grab the unnofficial official university newspaper--the alligator.
The headline article for this week is "State to consider allowing guns on campus"
The author interviewed the chief of UPD, Linda Stump, who says
So basically the person in charge of making sure our campus is safe, is against the student body and all others on campus from being able to have a lawful means of defending themselves.
Read on further, the author inteviewed Brian Malte from the Brady Campaign...unsurprisingly he says
uuuggghhh the wild west argument AGAIN
They give a small bit about what Sean Carrana, the director of Florida Carry, who mentions the 43 states that allow OC and how we need to be able to defend ourselves on campus
But then they end with the Malte, the Brady guy, straight demonizing the gun lobby
http://www.alligator.org/news/campus/article_e4e18cda-2778-11e0-a66a-001cc4c002e0.html
I was walking across campus today at UF and i stopped to grab the unnofficial official university newspaper--the alligator.
The headline article for this week is "State to consider allowing guns on campus"
The author interviewed the chief of UPD, Linda Stump, who says
So basically the person in charge of making sure our campus is safe, is against the student body and all others on campus from being able to have a lawful means of defending themselves.
Read on further, the author inteviewed Brian Malte from the Brady Campaign...unsurprisingly he says
uuuggghhh the wild west argument AGAIN
They give a small bit about what Sean Carrana, the director of Florida Carry, who mentions the 43 states that allow OC and how we need to be able to defend ourselves on campus
But then they end with the Malte, the Brady guy, straight demonizing the gun lobby
http://www.alligator.org/news/campus/article_e4e18cda-2778-11e0-a66a-001cc4c002e0.html
NavyLCDR
member
Last time I checked there were no school shootings like Columbine and others in the "Wild West".
Big Mike
Member
+10. Unfortunately, in Florida, if you do break concealment it is considered brandishing which is a crime. If nothing else, this law would eliminate those particular incidents.
Have also lived in two open carry states and can count on one hand the number of people I actually saw open carrying and when I did it was no big deal.
Which 42 states
NAVYLT,
Which 42 states? Florida is the third most populace state or tied with New York for the third slot. So which state are you comparing.
California is out. The socialist government of south California has made the state a safe haven for criminal gangs. If they will not permit concealed carry, you cannot hope for open carry.
Is open carry popular in Texas? I know they have cc. Is it common in DALLAS or HOUSTON?
We don't even want to mention New York, do we?
Forget about places like MONTANA and such. They are desolate compared to Florida. I know, I have been there.
Florida is a densely populated state. That means we also have a large criminal element, frequently grouped into ethnic gangs. These gangs like to educate their members in prisons on how to disarm and murder police.
Do you think that throwing out a lot of new guns for them to try to take is a good idea. I do not. If open carry required required at least a LEVEL II retention holster and some handgun retention techniques, I might be in favor of it. Without them, I am not.
Jim
NAVYLT,
Which 42 states? Florida is the third most populace state or tied with New York for the third slot. So which state are you comparing.
California is out. The socialist government of south California has made the state a safe haven for criminal gangs. If they will not permit concealed carry, you cannot hope for open carry.
Is open carry popular in Texas? I know they have cc. Is it common in DALLAS or HOUSTON?
We don't even want to mention New York, do we?
Forget about places like MONTANA and such. They are desolate compared to Florida. I know, I have been there.
Florida is a densely populated state. That means we also have a large criminal element, frequently grouped into ethnic gangs. These gangs like to educate their members in prisons on how to disarm and murder police.
Do you think that throwing out a lot of new guns for them to try to take is a good idea. I do not. If open carry required required at least a LEVEL II retention holster and some handgun retention techniques, I might be in favor of it. Without them, I am not.
Jim
sig228
Member
Rick, I am pretty sure Florida does not have a brandishing rule for accidental exposure of your gun eg. the wind blows back your cover garment.
FS 790.10: Improper exhibition of dangerous weapons or firearms. If any person having or carrying any dirk, sword, sword cane, firearm, electric weapon or device, or other weapon shall, in the presence of one or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, the person so offending shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree,
Careless is the operative word in that statute. Careless can be applied as a blanket term to describe any improper exhibition whatsoever. I'd bet a large sum of money that it would be considered careless exhibition if the wind blows around your clothing and reveals your firearm.
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