What if you need high capacity but worry about 9mm?

[XLMiguel]

"The Rule of Fives'

Unless you're going to war, the reading I've done/conventional wisdom/urban legend suggests that most gunfights occur at 5 yards or less, firing 5 rounds or less, and are over in 5 seconds or less.
And as noted, shot placement has a whole lot more to do with the outcome than caliber, e.g. a hit with a .22 counts more than a miss with a .45. I am entirely comfortable with a 9mm, and it is what I carry most often.

Shoot what you shoot well, and practice regularly, thus endeth the sermon.

 

[Javelin Man]

15 rounds would be best served with a spare magazine holding your other 7 rounds with your gun holding 7 and 1 in the tube. Most guns can do this for you. 15 round magazines start to get unreliable.

That said, if you REALLY are in a situation where you NEED 15 rounds, you're already in deep do-do. You should have an AK-47 with a 30 rd. magazine at your disposal.

Didn't Mr. and Mrs. Smith in the movie have pistols with 15 rd. magazines and shoot their way out of about 25 gunman shooting at them?

 

[tbeb]

Stop feeling confused. I'm no expert, but I don't feel there's a big difference between calibers like 9mm, .357 sig, .40 Smith & Wesson, and .45 ACP. I don't think a vital organ will be able to tell the difference. Just use ammunition that penetrates deep enough. I have a 17-shot 9mm and an
8-shot .45 ACP. I feel sufficiently armed with either. (If I had a 17-shot .45 ACP I think I'd grab it first though.)

 

[Zak Smith]

Facts:

1. The terminal performance of modern premium defensive pistol ammunition in 9x19, 40SW, and 45ACP is nearly indistinguishable.

2. There are all manner of higher-capacity pistols chamberted in 40SW, 10MM, and 45ACP. (e.g. My SV "Limited" gun has a capacity of 20+1 40SW or 10MM, with 140mm magazines.)

ETA, PS eurohacker,

Please do some research before you post. For example, you could have searched (both here and on Google) for the state of the art in terminal ballistics study to understand what "stopping power" means, and you could have searched for common 40SW and 45ACP pistols to determine what capacity was available.

 

[Jack19]

I've been carrying a 9mm (BHP and now G19) for the better part of 25 years. If you doubt the lethality of 9mm, trot down range.

Remember, it's better to have more rounds on you than more rounds in you. Higher capacity magazines mean only that you reload less often; it is your responsibility to learn how to place shots accurately.

 

[turbonatr]

"Stopping Power"?



http://www.ammolab.myhomepage.com/page/page/1613332.htm#30529

 

[MTMilitiaman]

15 rounds would be best served with a spare magazine holding your other 7 rounds with your gun holding 7 and 1 in the tube. Most guns can do this for you. 15 round magazines start to get unreliable.

Yeah because more reloads is always a good idea And I seriously doubt if there is much difference in reliability between a modern 15 round magazine in, say, a Glock and a modern 7 round magazine in, say, a 1911. If you have evidence to the contrary, please do tell.

That said, if you REALLY are in a situation where you NEED 15 rounds, you're already in deep do-do. You should have an AK-47 with a 30 rd. magazine at your disposal.

We already noted that a rifle or shotgun would be better in just about any defensive situations. As I already suggested, people don't carry pistols because it is ideal and probably shouldn't carry it to prepare for the average defensive situation.

Sorry if I sound overly sarcastic but I just can't buy your logic.

 

[Javelin Man]

I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic. I'm sure I typed slowly enough.
I'm following the logic that you already are using: Less reloads. Instead of reloading a 15 round magazine, use a 30 rd. AK magazine. Heck, use a Tec-9 and a 50 rd. magazine if they are so reliable.

I have two S&W 59 15 rd. magazines, and neither work with my Kel-tec. I've since learned that the springs aren't strong enough to keep up with the faster action. I've changed springs and they're still not up to par. I'm still fiddling with them. Forgive my lack of experience with Glock larger capacity magazines. I don't know their reliability and won't comment on them. I use a 12 round magazine in my 9mm. My brother asked if it would ever run out as he shot it. I suppose that's what the original poster wants to feel like.

BTW, which is better, 9mm or .45?

 

[bernie]

Glock 20, 10mm.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

Glock 20, 10mm.

Now we're talking.

Javelin, I am sure if people could just carry their rifles around with them all the time, they would. Unfortunately, this is neither practical nor convenient. People carry handguns because they are portable, easy to conceal, and present a better option than hand-to-hand combat--not because they are a good substitute for a rifle. So yes, if one needs firepower, a rifle is good, a mounted machine gun might be better, and a precision munition from a Spirit stealth bomber better still. In the mean time, all you can stick in your belt is a handgun and some people still want more than 7+1 capacity. That doesn't mean they spray and pray or are otherwise unprofessional. You can have 15 rounds in the magazine and still recognize the value of proper shot placement.
As for magazine reliability, the 15 round magazines of my Glock have very strong springs and I doubt I will have to worry about their ability to function for quite some time. Meanwhile, the ten round magazines that came with my USP continually fail--a problem that is reportedly absent with the standard capacity 12 rounders.

 

[Jack2427]

There are three primary factors in stopping power of any round:

1. Bullet placement

2. Bullet placement

3. Bullet placement

 

[Bill B.]

I have to find it a bit odd that seeming 75% of the posters on THR think the Browning HP in 9mm is the greatest handgun ever built and there is another 75% who think the 9mm is not nearly enough. Doesn't that add up a bit funny?

I use both the 9mm, the .40 & the .45 and would have to say accuracy is what concerns me more with any handgun than caliber. As long as you are accurate with your handgun that is number one!

 

[Javelin Man]

I gotte get me one of them Spirit Stealth bombers! Maybe I'll just settle for a Jeep with a mounted .50 cal on back to go get the groceries. I might be living in the wrong neighborhood if I need that, though.

Everyone's giving excellent observations and opinions and it gets down to 15 rounds of 9 mm is quite sufficient for anything outside of Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Remember, 3/4's of Americans don't understand fractions, the other half doesn't care!

 

[Berg01]

I just get so confused. One guy says 9mm sucks, another says it doesn't.

9mm don't suck; you need to get to a point where you just trust your own intuitive sense about what works in a 9mm CCW. There is some terriffic 9mm defensive ammo out there these days; the Pro Load and Black Hills 124 gr +P GDHPs are awesome, and there are some excellent launch vehicles for the stuff, namely, my own P228.

 

[NineseveN]

Just get a Glock 31 in .357sig and have 15 rounds of Sig-goodness. Or give up on Capacity and just get a Sig .45. Or go for a compromise and go for an HK .40, or... Repeat after me:


"There is no wonder gun, all handguns suit certain body profiles, carrying needs and carrying concerns differently. It is an individula question. But, since NineseveN said so, find a way to carry a .45 and be done with all this inferior caliber nonsense."

Point is, it's not an exact science, and most of the info you need can be found by doing some simple google searches. You will likely have to handle and fire (which means borrowing or buying) multple firearms before you decide on your carry gun. Then you have to try different holsters and carry methods if you're going to carry. In the mean time, carry what you have as well as you can carry it.

 

[caz223]

I'll answer the original question.

G20 or G29.
If you choose to carry a G29 with a G20 mag, make sure it's reliable without the spacer.
Also, if you find that you can't use the factory sights, upgrade them. Simple enough.

 

[trickyasafox]

"what if you need 15 rounds but doubt 9mm?"

carry a spare mag. seriously, 8 rounds in the gun of 45 and another 7 on hand will make a lot of people feel warm and comfy

 

[Harv]

:banghead: The debate never ends..... there's no magic bullet.... There's no "DeathRay" and no "One Shot stopper"
it's the "Nut behind the trigger" and that's it. you shoot till the threat is down..period. it's bullet placement. I feel no more naked with My G17 then I would with My Kimber Polymer Hicap .45. Both will do the job if I do mind.

 

[GunAdmirer]

My informal tests have made me completely confident in a 9mm pistol with quality ammunition.

I like standard capacity magazines. They give you the ability to neutralize multiple targets and still have some ammo left over - with no magazine change necessary.

9mm pistols are usually smaller, lighter and easier to conceal. Most .45 acp higher capacity pistols are heavy and bulky. No thanks for concealed carry.

James bond carries a Walther .380 and never has to change magazines. Now that's high capacity! You might try to find one of those.

I like all types and calibers of pistols. Each has their purpose and place. However, I prefer the higher capacity 9mm pistols for concealed carry/personal defense.

To each his own, though.

 

[Vernal45]

What if you need high capacity but worry about 9mm?

If you need a high Capacity pistol, you are already in deep doodie.

If you worry about the 9mm, you need to practice more, put the little 9mm where it needs to go, and you will be alright.

 

[iiibdsiil]

Guys,

Yes, he does need to learn to use the search button effectively, but at least he is on our side, and he is trying to learn. Whether he is 14 or 40, he is here to learn, and he is at least asking questions. At least he isn't with the group that "knows" a .45 will blow an arm off even if you hit someone in the finger, but that is only after they fly 25 feet.

I don't blame him for doubting 9 mm after all the crap that is said about it on this very forum. And, about the more than 15 rounds thing, how many people here carry 2 guns and 3 knives on them at all times, each gun has 2 back up magazines and they are both bare minimum .45? I read about it all the time on here, maybe not exactly that, but you get my drift.

I'm with the revolver guys on this, 5 rounds is going to be enough. The way odds work, you would have about a 1 in 1,000,000,000,000 chance of getting into a gun fight and need more than 5 rounds. Those odds are pretty good for us, and there are many more things we do on a daily basis that have much higher odds of us dying, for example driving and flying. Besides that, if I needed more than 5 rounds, I would probably be crap outta luck anyways. But that's just because I'm not uber-tactical.

 

[BioDemon]

Get the biggest caliber you shoot best with. For my sister that's a 380 auto. For me it's a 40 S&W. IF you can shoot a 45 as accuratly as a 9mm then get the 45. Hand guns are for figting your way back to your long gun. No handgun hits and stops like a shotgun or rifle. When stuck with only your handgun- Hope it's the biggest one you shoot best with.

 

[Universal]

First off, to answer the original question. If you want 15 rounds but worry about the 9mm there are other choices. For example, the GLOCK 22, its magazine holds 15 rounds of .40S&W ammo. The GLOCK 21 holds 13 rounds of .45ACP so you have only "lost" two rounds. I am sure that there are many other handguns out there that have a magazine capacity of 15 or more in a caliber larger than the 9mm.

Now, I really would not worry much about the 9mm not being enough. It is a great round and I live in a country that does not restrict me to certain rounds or guns and I still choose the 9mm in my semi-auto handguns. I have owned, shot and carried 9mm, .40 and .45 chambered handguns and chose the 9mm because I shoot it better than the other two. Also, I have health problems that make it hard for me to shoot harder recoiling guns.

Last but not least, I totally agree with the point that serveral people posted here that 5 or 6 shots is more than enough to end most armed encounters. My carry gun is a Smith & Wesson model 640 .38 Special revolver.

 

[sturmruger]

Honestly I am getting sick of all your questions eurohacker. I am starting to think you are some new type of troll.

 

[shield20]

need/want higher capacity and a bigger caliber? Try a .40 S&W - usually can fill that roll nicely.
If you can carry and conceal a higher capacity pistol, that is good for you, any advantage is just that - an advantage. I myself would LOVE the extra rounds - "deep do do" or not, and especially in .40 over 9mm.