An argument for .40 caliber

[TheProf]

I have read many comments regarding the .40 caliber. Some say it's an answer to a question that was never asked. In other words, either go with a 9mm (for capacity) or a .45 for large caliber size.

I'm NOT claiming that the .40 is superior to any caliber... but here's why I have chosen this caliber..

1. If asked in the same gun platform...would you choose .380 or .32? Most I think would choose the larger caliber...given the same size platform. Which got me thinking... G23 or G19... I chose the larger caliber in the exact same size platform.

2. The 9mm has less recoil. But with +P SD ammo, the recoil is about the same. What people compare is 9mm target ammo with the .40. But what they need to compare is 9mm +P that they are most likely carrying for self-defense.

3. The 9mm is cheaper than .40. True. About $3 more for a box of 100 (of WWB at Walmart). If a person practiced with 400 rounds per month...I seriously doubt that the $12 extra dollars is going to break the bank. Even if we were to double that...say 800 rounds of practice a month.. that a difference of about $24.

4. The .40 has the power close that to .45 in the more concealable platform of a 9mm. There's also the greater capacity than the .45 at approximately the same power.

5. With the .40, you practice with the same load (target practice and self-defense ammo) have the same power levels. This makes sense. I question the practice of using regular 9mm loads for practice, then carrying +p for self defense.

Again, this is not to say that the .40 is superior to any caliber. But I figure those who carry the .40 need the reminder.

 

[kcshooter]

Oh good. A caliber war.

I find your statement about 9mm and 40 having similar recoil completely opposite to my actual first hand experience.

 

[Swing]

Oh good. A caliber war.

So it appears.

 

[Dreamliner787]

It's about shot placement and if a person can handle the 9mm better than the 40SW then they should choose which ever one they can shoot the best with. What I've seen with the recent amounts of small subcompacts; these guns are "snappy" in 40SW and it affect shot placement.

 

[Nushif]

I find your statement about 9mm and 40 having similar recoil completely opposite to my actual first hand experience.

Same here, but sadly both our personal accounts matter precious little as both are very anecdotal. 8) Until we get some good data on that without a subjective bias (read: never, seeing as humans respond differently) I don't think we can make that point.

I do have to say though that I do like this particular caliber war. It starts on a very nice premise.

 

[basicblur]

OK...you've presented your arguments for the 40...now present the arguments against or for the 9mm. After all, when you make a decision, do you simply look at the points that justify that which you already believe, or do you weigh the pros / cons?

Lemme help you with a few:
1. You mistakenly assume everyone is carrying +P. There is a letter floating around from a Winchester ballistics engineer that says they recommend their 9mm 147 gr. 'normal' loads in short barreled guns - longer dwell time in the barrel means a more complete powder burn before the bullet exits the barrel.
2. I always weigh caliber vs. round count when deciding. When I purchased my old (pre-Melonite) XDSC40, their XDSC9 held only 10 rounds, the 40 held 9 - I figured I'd take 9 rounds of 40 over 10 rounds of 9mm. When they redesigned the 9mm magazines to hold 13 rounds, the scales tilted towards the 9mm - I'll take 13 rounds of 9mm over 9 rounds of 40.
3. Folks are always behind the curve - BG tactics have been changing / evolving over the years - there now seems to be more cases of multiple attackers than in the past. Because of this, round count now weighs more heavily in my decision than in the past.

No caliber war here - I own both, but I recommend to most folks approaching me asking 'bout upgrading their SD guns, or buying their first gun that they start with the 9mm.

Over the years I've tended to move down in caliber as SD ammo has improved. I've gone from a 45 to a 40 to mostly 9mm for my carry guns these days.

 

[chuckpro]

So why not go with the 10mm? For me recoil management and caliber are a trade off. I prefer 9mm in smaller guns and 45 in my larger guns but i mostly carry a p2000 in 40 so i am all over the board.

Shot placement is the most important thing 9, 40, or 45 will get the job done so it is more of a matter of what gives you the most confidence in yourself to make the shot.

 

[TheProf]

No caliber war here either. Here's a confession...

1. For CCW, I carry G26. (9mm 147 grain. "Regular load". No +P.) Why not .40? I want at least 11 rounds in this size platform.

2. For home carry.. its G23 (.40 caliber , 180 grains Gold Dot HP) Why not go with .45? For me, its just to chunky and I don't like the ergo. The largest platform for me is G23 or G19...even at home. For home, I choose the larger caliber because it still holds at least 13 rounds.

I actually like both 9mm and .40 but I felt that the .40 was getting bashed too often in gun forums lately.

 

[basicblur]

...but I felt that the .40 was getting bashed too often in gun forums lately.

It's just human nature, often exhibted by (overly enthusiastic) newbies.
It wasn't that long ago the 9mm was constantly bashed - now it seems to be the 40. Stick around long enough and the pendulum will swing the other way (again).

I just ignore low signal to noise ratios, sift wheat from the chaff, do my own research, and usually make a pragmatic decision.

'Course, you realize if you do that, you'll never be cool!

 

[FMF Doc]

Another advantage of 9mm, is the choice in bullets. Use a glock 19 for example, if it was your only gun. I can shoot bulk 115gr FMJ that I buy 1000 rounds for $209.99, or some surplus 124gr FMJ NATO I picked up at a gun show, or WWB from Wal-Mart, and that is just the cheap practice stuff. When you get into the SD ammo, the choices are almost limitless. You can get 3 different Hydrashok rounds from federal alone in 124gr, 135gr and 147gr, then there are Gold Dots, Golden Sabre, Winchester and let’s not get started on all the Hornady defensive rounds...I count 8 standard pressure rounds for SD and another in +P. Some guns will shoot anything...like most glocks I have owned. Some like what they like...like some sigs I have owned, but at least with 9mm...there are choices. In .40sw (a round I respect) there simply are not as many choices.

 

[calaverasslim]

I don't either agree or disagree with you. Personally, I don't care for either one. However, I do own boith.

By choice, I prefer the 10mm in that range, second choice would be the 357 Sig.

However, when all is said and done, I think I'll stay with my 1911 45acp, thank you very much..

 

[ColtPythonElite]

The birth of the .40 didn't complete my life. Matter of fact, I could live happily ever after without it.

 

[Bovice]

The .40 didn't complete my life. .357 SIG did! If you're trying to split the middle ground between 9 and 40 AND do better than both of them power-wise, look at .357 SIG. Recoil is more manageable than .40 and you're still throwing a 9mm bullet.

Now that's what I call finding a middle ground!

 

[easyg]

There's nothing wrong with the .40 and I believe it's a good defensive caliber.
If you like it then use it.

But I disagree with this line of thinking...

If asked in the same gun platform...would you choose .380 or .32? Most I think would choose the larger caliber...given the same size platform. Which got me thinking... G23 or G19... I chose the larger caliber in the exact same size platform.

Yes, most would choose the .380, but not because it's a larger caliber but because the .32 is a weak poor self defence caliber.
There is quite a difference between the .380 and the. 32, but there really isn't much difference between the 9mm and the .40.

 

[beatledog7]

All three of the most common (in the US) semi-auto chamberings are good SD rounds. I own all three and enjoy shooting all three.

But I carry a .38SPL.

So, do I win?

 

[Skribs]

1. If asked in the same gun platform...would you choose .380 or .32? Most I think would choose the larger caliber...given the same size platform. Which got me thinking... G23 or G19... I chose the larger caliber in the exact same size platform.

There's a big difference between .32 vs. .380 and 9 vs. .40. In terms of what is "enough" most people view the .380 as either the minimum, or just below the minimum amount of power. As you go up the scale from .32 to .40, less and less people believe that the given round is inadequate for self defense. In addition, most people would want FMJ with .32, and a good chunk would still want FMJ with .380.

However, I do see your point. The logical question is "if you want bigger, why not .45?" However, .45 comes with a bigger grip, which means it might not be as comfortable. Also, in your case, there isn't a comparable .45 to the G19/23. So I do see your point here. However, you seem to be comparing the .40 to the 9 mainly, and ignore the .45 for the majority of the post. What is your case for .40 over .45?

I also agree with BasicBlur regarding +P ammo. I wouldn't use +P ammo when I get my 9, it's either going to be 124-gr or 147-gr normal ammo. So I would practice with similar loads as my SD ammo and have less recoil than a .40. Capacity is also an issue.

 

[Walking Dead]

This is a comparison that will never go away. Well it might when they quit making .40 since 9mm is better.

 

[TheProf]

My argument of .40 over .45...

1. For guns with higher capacity (over 11 rounds)... the grip is to chunky. I like Glocks. And with Glocks...already being blocky... more size is not a good thing. I really like the G30sf. But again, for IWB carry, it's just to chunky.

2. Availability. In my neck of the woods, my local Walmart sees to be always out of .45 caliber. I realize that I should not limit myself to Walmart....but I use Walmart as a barometer in terms of availability. (As a friend of mine use to say, if you can't find it in Walmart... you probably don't need it.)

Ok... got to admit, that was a lame argument for my part.

3. And of course, given the same size gun, there is greater capacity using .40 caliber.

Again, I am not saying that the .40 is the better than caliber X, Y, Z. I'm just throwing some thoughts out there why some prefer the .40. Judging from the internet... you would think that anyone who uses the .40 was a product of propaganda and mindless brainwashing by the ammo companies.

For my CCW, I prefer a gun that is no bigger than a Glock subcompact and prefer at least 11 rounds. The biggest caliber that meets that criteria is a 9mm using the G26 platform.

For home defense, I prefer a gun no larger than a Glock compact and must be able to have at least 13 rounds. The biggest caliber that meets that criteria is a .40 using the G23 platform.

Not saying that its better than a .45....... What I am saying is that there is a valid use of the .40 for those believe "bigger is better"...but have capacity and gun size parameters that they must work week.

 

[481]

I have read many comments regarding the .40 caliber. Some say it's an answer to a question that was never asked. In other words, either go with a 9mm (for capacity) or a .45 for large caliber size.

I'm NOT claiming that the .40 is superior to any caliber... but here's why I have chosen this caliber..

1. If asked in the same gun platform...would you choose .380 or .32? Most I think would choose the larger caliber...given the same size platform. Which got me thinking... G23 or G19... I chose the larger caliber in the exact same size platform.

2. The 9mm has less recoil. But with +P SD ammo, the recoil is about the same. What people compare is 9mm target ammo with the .40. But what they need to compare is 9mm +P that they are most likely carrying for self-defense.

3. The 9mm is cheaper than .40. True. About $3 more for a box of 100 (of WWB at Walmart). If a person practiced with 400 rounds per month...I seriously doubt that the $12 extra dollars is going to break the bank. Even if we were to double that...say 800 rounds of practice a month.. that a difference of about $24.

4. The .40 has the power close that to .45 in the more concealable platform of a 9mm. There's also the greater capacity than the .45 at approximately the same power.

5. With the .40, you practice with the same load (target practice and self-defense ammo) have the same power levels. This makes sense. I question the practice of using regular 9mm loads for practice, then carrying +p for self defense.

Again, this is not to say that the .40 is superior to any caliber. But I figure those who carry the .40 need the reminder.

This is not meant to be rude, so please do not take it as such- I am just curious as to why you started this thread.

This reads like you are trying to rationalize to us, if not, yourself, why you've chosen the .40 S&W. Is there a reason that this is necessary or is this more of an exercise in debate simply for the sake of debate?

Also, when you use the term "power" to what are you refering? How are you defining "power"?

 

[basicblur]

While one event does not a trend make, as stated earlier, one reason I now prefer the extra capacity of a 9mm is evolving BG tactics.
http://www.gainesville.com/article/...atron-shooting-robbers-at-Palms-Internet-Cafe

You can read the news (both nationally and in our little 'burb), and talk to local LEOs at the gun shop, and the possiblity of multiple attackers is on the rise.

I don't know how many rounds Mr. Williams had in that 380 (and good on him), but if the BGs had decided to fight it out instead of fleeing...

And I do love the video - BGs can be a bit slow to learn, but with folks like Mr. Williams around, they'll eventually learn it just ain't that kind of world any longer! (where they can operate with impunity)

Mr. Williams also is just another in a long line of folks that prove, despite anti-2nd folks insistence, that you don't have to be an 'operator' in order to effectively defend yourself with a firearm.

 

[ccsniper]

I used to be a "bigger is better" man, consolidated all my pistols down to .40. I had several thousand rounds of 180 grain PDX ammo. when you buy multiple boxes at a single trip to academy, the cost difference does make an obvious dent in your wallet. Once I got good I switched to 9mm. Sorta did it backwards. I carry a .380

 

[minutemen1776]

I've owned/used both 9mm and .40 S&W. My personal experience has been that, given my limited skillset and limited opportunities to practice (I work for a living and am no professional gunslinger) I can maintain basic proficiency with a 9mm pistol much easier than the same pistol chambered in .40 S&W. Basically, I have to work harder at shooting a .40, and that's not something I frequently have the luxury of doing. That's why I prefer the 9mm.

 

[Lawdawg45]

The caliber lines have definitely been blurred a bit with the +p and +P+ ammo line, and for me personally, I took the hot 9mm that gave me 2 extra rounds in my duty weapon.

LD

 

[piece of meat]

.40 looks like the perfect round...on paper. Actually shooting it is a different story, at least to me. In my experience it has much, much more snap than ANY 9mm round ive used, including + p+ . Ive shot an xd compact and a glock 23 gen 4...felt like the gun was exploding in my hand with every shot, twisting like crazy and i couldnt even tell where i was hitting. IMO the recoil characteristics of the. 40 round are vastly worse than any 9mm round and also the. 45...both of which are far more shootable and enjoyable to me

 

[AFDavis11]

I'll probably stick with .45 until they make a nice .50. Why go small? I want to make the biggest hole possible, not the most powerful.

While we're at it, let's make square bullets that feed better than these silly round ones.

I'm glad you like the .40 though.