What is an apropiate age for kids to be taken to the range

What is an apropiate age for kids first trip to the range

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PP ~

You're assuming parents don't talk to their kids about what they are doing, what it means, and why they are doing it.

Those stages of learning/understanding assume that the kid is a completely blank slate, has never had stuff explained to him, and can't possibly understand even if stuff is explained to him in terms he can understand.

Funny story: friend of mine in college, taking a child development class. Professor (childless of course) lectured on stages of kid development, claimed kids under age (I forget specific ... 5?) were unable to really comprehend the idea of a deferred reward, or of either a reward or a punishment happening later than the behavior. Part of the lecture was the claim that if you took a toddler, showed him a piece of candy, and told him he could eat the candy now, or wait ten or more minutes to receive 2 pieces of candy, the kid would always eat the candy immediately because he couldn't possibly understand the idea of waiting and being rewarded for waiting.*

Friend went home. Got his barely 2-year-old son and set the kid at the table. Put a piece of candy in front of him. Said, "DJ, here's a piece of candy. You want it?" Kid nodded. "Okay, you can eat it now, OR you can wait a few minutes to eat it. If you wait to eat it until after dinner, I will give you two pieces of candy."

Kid looked at the candy, and said, "Okay Daddy." Then he climbed down from the table, looking wistfully behind him at the candy still sitting there. Candy sat on the table all afternoon, with the kid coming over to look at it from time to time. After dinner the kid was given two pieces of candy.

DJ was not any brighter than most 2-year-olds, but somewhere along the way someone had explained "waiting" to him in terms he understood.

So, no, a 4-year-old might not understand that the watermelon blowing up means something. But if someone takes the time to explain what just happened and what it means, and to engage the kid's imagination -- well, that's a different thing entirely.

pax

* IMO, the real reason little kids "can't understand" the concept of waiting when promised either a reward or a punishment is because their parents lie to them so often. Would you believe someone who lied to you all the time?
 
aside from the safty aspect of a firearm discharge, you have to worry about hearing protection and eye protection, which was discussed already. I have to throw two more in.

Air quality protection. It is one thing for me to expose myself to the tiny risk of a lead ladened atmosphere. Most indoor ranges are well ventilated, and I am fully grown and see driving to work as more risky, and pumping my own gas as more likely to cause personal pollution problems...BUT...I wouldn't let a young growing kid under 10 to an indoor range unless it had a very good ventilation system and was a slow day.


Unsafe Neighbor Factor. - we have all heard the stories of morons at the local range. If you have access to a private range, great, but i'd be a bit leary about bringing a young kid to a public range. Fear of harm to the child from poor gunhandling is one, emotional impact of a moron hurting himself is another, general exposure to the word *uck would be a third
 
Up until around age 5-7 (depending on the child) children have only a "literal" understanding of their surroundings. This means all they would get from shooting a watermelon is that "watermelons explode when shot". They would lack the ability to form any real life link between what happened to the watermelon and what could happen to them. Their brains are not processiong indirect relationships like that yet.
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Maybe, maybe not depends on the kid. When my kid was 2, he told others that daddy shoots deer with a rifle and brings them home to eat. He understands that his toy gun doesn't use 'real bullets' and is different than his daddy's rifles. Even with the toy rifle, he has been taught since day 1 that its not to be pointed at people, he follows this rule better than a lot of adults I've seen.
 
Funny story: friend of mine in college, taking a child development class. Professor (childless of course) lectured on stages of kid development, claimed kids under age (I forget specific ... 5?) were unable to really comprehend the idea of a deferred reward, or of either a reward or a punishment happening later than the behavior. Part of the lecture was the claim that if you took a toddler, showed him a piece of candy, and told him he could eat the candy now, or wait ten or more minutes to receive 2 pieces of candy, the kid would always eat the candy immediately because he couldn't possibly understand the idea of waiting and being rewarded for waiting.*
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I'm guessing that that psychobabbler had never heard of Santa Claus or right now, the Easter Bunny and how parents can use these fictional characters to leverage better behavior for a future reward. :D
 
I'm guessing that that psychobabbler had never heard of Santa Claus or right now, the Easter Bunny and how parents can use these fictional characters to leverage better behavior for a future reward.
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Actually that statement just shows you do not understand what he was saying. I love how people with no mental health training love to write off information from people with advanced degrees and doctors as psychobabble but they will believe everything hacks like Maury Povich Oprah or Dr, phil tell them.

PAX
You're assuming parents don't talk to their kids about what they are doing, what it means, and why they are doing it.
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No, I am not assuming that at all. I am just telling you the a 4yr old does not usually possess the cognitive abilities required to process and retain such abstract relationships. No matter how many times you tell a 2-4 yr old something you will still find yourself having to reprimand them for not listening when they did indeed listen. They just lacked the physical ability to completely process the information. Who hasn't had a small child say "I don't know" when asked why they did something they were told not to do. Unless you are saying that you have never had to punish your small children because they have always done what they are told. In which case you are a very, very lucky man. :)
 
Actually that statement just shows you do not understand what he was saying. I love how people with no mental health training love to write off information from people with advanced degrees and doctors as psychobabble
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Advanced degrees in pseudoscience? Where do I sign up for one of those newfangled phrenology classes?:neener:
 
PP ~

All I know is that the levels of kid development are often treated as though they were handed down at Mt Sinai, but that of all the kids I know personally, not one ever fit neatly into the outline. Kids are individuals, just like adults are, and have their own individual strengths and weaknesses, and their own ways of reaching maturity.

In re your comment to Cracked Butt above, he was out of line with the insult about psychobabblers. But your response was out of line and off base too.

With five children in the house, I've found that the stuff I got in child psychology in college was worse than useless in dealing with actual, live children. Maybe the stuff they fed you was better. But how would you know? You've never lived with a houseful of kids, so maybe the theories about what kids are supposed to be capable of or not capable of seem sound enough to you.

Personally, I'd take the word of someone with real-life experience over the word of a childless someone with a degree, who got his training from a similarly childless someone with a degree, whose own theories were more than several steps removed from any actual children.

Rarely if ever ask one of my kids why he disobeys. Usually ask 'em, "Can you tell me what happened? ... What did he do? ... What did you do about that? What happened next?" But asking 'em why they failed your expectations is just asking them to create an excuse or lie to you on the spot -- either of which is a bad lifetime habit.

But yes, I'm a lucky ... er, person. ;)

pax
 
PAX

My response was a quote from the Simpson. mr. Burns to be exact. How dare you not recognize that. :D

As far as child development, I have had hundreds of clients that thought their kids should be capable of more than they were and I have never found a 4yr old yet capable of abstract reasoning. it comes down to this...would you set you 2-4yr old child down on your new white suede couch with a bottle of chocolate syrup and say "I am going to leave for the day...you sit there for the next few hours and do not get any syrup on the couch". I doubt you would. it is normal to want to advance our children to a point where they can partake in the same things we enjoy but when firearms are concerned it is best to make it a non-opportunity until they are definately old enough.
 
:D :D

PP, both you & CB posted a second time while I was composing the above.

Sorry for the confusion!

pax
 
A suggestion on taking kids to the range. DON'T DRAG THEM ALONG BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING, THEY WILL GET BORED AND NOT ENJOY IT. Make it a time for them, with you probably not shooting more than a round or two, to demonstrate. Make it a set time limit( like maybe 2 hours), not until they are sick and tired of the range. LEAVE WITH THEM WANTING MORE BUT BECAUSE OF THE TIME LIMIT YOU HAVE TO LEAVE, THEN STOP AT THE TASTY FREEZE ON THE WAY HOME FOR A TREAT. Make it a fun day. This can work with most things you want to introduce your kids too. But sad to say some kids still may not like it or have fun doing the same things that DAD does. That doesn't mean they can't learn the basic safety rules.
 
By the way -- Sturmruger, the point I'm getting at is that you really need to talk to your child. It isn't enough to think he's "old enough" or "not old enough." From the time he* is too little to understand, talk to him as if he can. If you do that, it won't be long until he surprises you with all the stuff he can understand.

The attachment is for you, if you're interested. I promise there aren't any viruses in it.

pax

* Or she. They come in two sexes, I know. But all of mine were "he."
 
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I got my Red Rider at 4yr, Daisy Pump at 5yr, also got a CO2 pistol at 5

22lr at 6yr, also at 6 my father showed my brother and I what his 44mag would do to a 1800lb bull by shooting it in the head at close range, which taught us at that point not to mess with dads hand guns.

2nd grade was the first time I shot a .270 and at 10 I got my first hand gun. At 12 I was deer hunting with a 300mag and a Glock 10mm, 16 I started to hunt with my high school buddies.

I grew up with 'many' loaded guns in the house and trucks, never had an accident or any problems, but I was taught young and never had toy guns either, do to all the real ones being around.
 
I am all for introducing children to gun safety and later to gun handling and ownership but what good does exposing a small child to a grisley killing do for anyone? Children like animals generaly and doing something like "see the pretty bunny, BANG. Now see the pretty bunny's blood and guts" just doesn't seem very positive to me. But then I guess some people still live by the "negative reinforcement" policy that has caused so many of this past generation to grow into tight sphinctered, hooker loving, power grabbing, hate mongers.
 
Going to depend on the kid and their maturity level.
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There you have it. Start with gun safety early, as early as you can. I didn't start my kids shooting very young, but that was because I was actively involved in shooting much at that time (and their mother my EX-WIFE) is a bit of a hoplophobe). But, I would say, either of mine would have done fine at 7 or 8 years old.
 
Here is why I said other but this could change depending on my kids maturity when they get older. I just have in theback of my head that I take my say 8 year old to the range and shoot a 22 or even a pellet gun and he or she is so intrigued by it when at home(which guns should be put up and will be but still) or at some friends house(where guns arent put up as well God forbid) they will see a gun and think "hey I know how to shoot this now" . I know that it is a case by case/kid by kid scnenario but how is it not in the back of your head? Obviously before I take my kids shooting or having them around any guns we will have all the needed talks. Thats why as of right now having only a 4 year old I wouldnt feel comfortable with exposing her untill at least 12. Ill have to play it by ear!
 
Good NEWS

Thanks Pax for the reply and the doc. We just found out today that the little bundle of joy on the way is going to be a boy so all the "he" we used turned out to be appropriate.

One of my favorite things to do is talk to kids. They always have such interesting ideas, and thoughts about life. I am obviously way out ahead on this subject any decision on when the kids will have their first range trip will be decided by how well they understand and follow basic gun safety, and if my wife and I think they are ready for it.


Thanks for all the educational comments.
 
I started both of my boys at 7.

The 11-year-old shot 22, AR-15, and my 1911 at 7. He wasn't overly fond of the 1911, but shot it once.

My 9-year-old is Autistic. I started him at 7 too. We're still working on some of the basic concepts, but he makes range trips from time-to-time too.

Both are VERY safe around firearms. Firearms aren't a mystery to them. They know safe gun handling and practice it.
 
Maybe, maybe not depends on the kid. When my kid was 2, he told others that daddy shoots deer with a rifle and brings them home to eat. He understands that his toy gun doesn't use 'real bullets' and is different than his daddy's rifles. Even with the toy rifle, he has been taught since day 1 that its not to be pointed at people, he follows this rule better than a lot of adults I've seen.
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I got to say, I really question if a 2 year old can wrap his brain around the concepts here. Real vs unreal, life vs death, etc.

Your kid may be able verbalized the desired answers to you, but that is simply saying what he is taught to say because it makes dad happy. Doesn't mean he has any cognative grasp on what he is saying.


I am sure if you asked your 2 year old to describe the difference between real bullets and not real ones, he wouldn't be able to. I am sure if you asked him to tell you about life and death for people and for animals you weren't going to eat, he wouldn't be able to.
 
My younger daughter shot a .22 revolver and .22 Cricket at age 4 with some help. Next two oldest who were 6 and 8 at the time shot as well. Haven't taken our now 4 year old boy yet. we will see how he does over summer. Just got a .22 revolver of our own to teach them on. Would like to get them going on helping reload this summer but we will see. (Hand daddy that empty shell, kiddo.) :)
 
Akodo, do you have any kids yet?

Kids vary widely even within families on their maturity level. Our older son I would not have even thought about taking shooting at age 4, but our present 4 year old is more mature and if he asks I will take him shooting with daddy providing hands on help.
 
To my mind, the appropriate age is as soon as you can get effective hearing protection for them. Have them supervised by someone who isn't shooting, and let them grow up know that guns are a useful tool, and only the bad guys have to be scared of them.
 
When they are old enough to do this every time, without being reminded, even when handling replicas.

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