Officers'Wife
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I was always told the first rule was to avoid one if at all possible.
What is the #1 rule of a gunfight?
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I answered other.
You must be capable of doing what must be and must not be done for you to remain alive is the #1 rule of a gunfight. There is no absolute need to "win" because winning implies there must be a loser and it is not necessary for someone to "lose" for you to remain alive. A cautiously fought "draw" or "tie" where you and your adversary remain alive until disengagement can be a safer course of action than a riskier fight to "win". Of course what you have to do to remain alive frequently requires your adversary to "lose" their life, so you must be mentally and physically capable of fighting to "win". Too many people will increase their risk of death going for the "win" because they "take a gun to a gunfight" and they think they are a "hardass". That can result in forgetting that going for the "win" is not the goal. Bullet wounds your adversary receives that are ultimately fatal do not eliminate the possibility of your adversary delivering an ultimately fatal bullet wound to you. Remaining alive is the goal. That involves much more than: "Have a gun" (insufficient), "There are no rules" (there are), "Don't get shot" (often unavoidable), "Win" (not the goal), and "Don't be there"(only a fool would be there if there were a choice, so prepare to be there because you will have no choice).
You must be capable of doing what must be and must not be done for you to remain alive is the #1 rule of a gunfight. There is no absolute need to "win" because winning implies there must be a loser and it is not necessary for someone to "lose" for you to remain alive. A cautiously fought "draw" or "tie" where you and your adversary remain alive until disengagement can be a safer course of action than a riskier fight to "win". Of course what you have to do to remain alive frequently requires your adversary to "lose" their life, so you must be mentally and physically capable of fighting to "win". Too many people will increase their risk of death going for the "win" because they "take a gun to a gunfight" and they think they are a "hardass". That can result in forgetting that going for the "win" is not the goal. Bullet wounds your adversary receives that are ultimately fatal do not eliminate the possibility of your adversary delivering an ultimately fatal bullet wound to you. Remaining alive is the goal. That involves much more than: "Have a gun" (insufficient), "There are no rules" (there are), "Don't get shot" (often unavoidable), "Win" (not the goal), and "Don't be there"(only a fool would be there if there were a choice, so prepare to be there because you will have no choice).
denton
Member
If you're going to a place where you think you might need a gun, don't go there. Stay out of situations where your life is likely to be in danger. If you see a riot, get as far away from it as fast as you can. Don't be in a parking lot in a bad part of town after dark.
If that fails, have an action plan, have some skills, and have the resources you need. You won't have time to figure out what to do when the moment is upon you.
If that fails, have an action plan, have some skills, and have the resources you need. You won't have time to figure out what to do when the moment is upon you.
we are not amused
Member
Although I answered "have a gun", I must admit I find the poll rather silly.
Of course we would all rather not "be there"!
Of course we would all rather "not get shot"!
Of course we would all like to "win"!
But there are rules! Such as don't cold bloodily shoot your opponent after he is no longer a threat!
We don't always get a choice in not being there, not getting shot, or "winning".
Heck!, Depending on where you live or work, you may not have a choice on whether you have a gun!
We do have a choice in how we react. Get training, repeat, get training!
Of course we would all rather not "be there"!
Of course we would all rather "not get shot"!
Of course we would all like to "win"!
But there are rules! Such as don't cold bloodily shoot your opponent after he is no longer a threat!
We don't always get a choice in not being there, not getting shot, or "winning".
Heck!, Depending on where you live or work, you may not have a choice on whether you have a gun!
We do have a choice in how we react. Get training, repeat, get training!
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Phrases like "the #1 rule" or "... is job ONE...." or whatever are just rhetorical flourishes to emphasize an important point.
They also immediately open the speaker up to argument and petty one-upmanship as wags flex their wit at the speaker's expense.
"...Hey, the first rule of a gun fight is to have been born in the FIRST place, so you even exist to get into that gun fight! ...."
"Oh yeah? Well, if your MOMMA hadn't been born, YOU wouldn't have been born, so the VERY first rule of a gun fight is that your granddaddy and grandmother have to have met..."
In other words, these are rather inane things to say or even think about in terms of "rules" and checklists.
All the principles we discuss relating to self defense are important. Any one facet MIGHT be the one that keeps you alive.
So, what's the point of this poll and this thread?
Phrases like "the #1 rule" or "... is job ONE...." or whatever are just rhetorical flourishes to emphasize an important point.
They also immediately open the speaker up to argument and petty one-upmanship as wags flex their wit at the speaker's expense.
"...Hey, the first rule of a gun fight is to have been born in the FIRST place, so you even exist to get into that gun fight! ...."
"Oh yeah? Well, if your MOMMA hadn't been born, YOU wouldn't have been born, so the VERY first rule of a gun fight is that your granddaddy and grandmother have to have met..."
In other words, these are rather inane things to say or even think about in terms of "rules" and checklists.
All the principles we discuss relating to self defense are important. Any one facet MIGHT be the one that keeps you alive.
So, what's the point of this poll and this thread?
As I stated in the OP:
"The truth might be that the "#1 rule" varies depending on the specific circumstance you find yourself in, as I can easily think of possibilities...often actual examples from other people that have already happened...to invalidate each of these responses as being "the" answer.
I still think it's an interesting poll and could generate some good discussion."
I suppose I could rephrase "the #1 rule varies" to say "there is no #1 rule". That is probably my answer...there is no #1 rule.
I think this sums it up pretty well, snipped down for brevity:
But I am interested in seeing what people vote for among those choices.
Edit: And I think some of the poll options are better than others
RustyShackelford
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Have a gun.....
The first rule of gun-fighting is have a gun.
I never heard of a gun battle where only one side had a firearm.
To flee or avoid conflicts may be the best step but that's not always practical or prudent.
I recently saw a Youtube video of a "gun & tactics trainer". I think he was in WI but I don't recall his name or school. This cadre advised new CCW holders to flee or find safety. This might seem like solid advice or sound skill training but I don't see how a critical incident would really work that way,
.
Most armed citizen(not police, security, military, etc) events are fast, chaotic & violent.
It's not like you'll get a email, cell phone call or text alert notifying you of a critical incident.
If you have a CCW weapon you need it with you. Cheap excuses or lame complaints aren't going to save you when some career felon with a 12 page history is actively trying to kill you or your spouse/family.
The first rule of gun-fighting is have a gun.
I never heard of a gun battle where only one side had a firearm.
To flee or avoid conflicts may be the best step but that's not always practical or prudent.
I recently saw a Youtube video of a "gun & tactics trainer". I think he was in WI but I don't recall his name or school. This cadre advised new CCW holders to flee or find safety. This might seem like solid advice or sound skill training but I don't see how a critical incident would really work that way,
.Most armed citizen(not police, security, military, etc) events are fast, chaotic & violent.
It's not like you'll get a email, cell phone call or text alert notifying you of a critical incident.
If you have a CCW weapon you need it with you. Cheap excuses or lame complaints aren't going to save you when some career felon with a 12 page history is actively trying to kill you or your spouse/family.
Win or die
in the old days a dual was a gun fight... the object was to win an defend your honor or maybe a womens Ha HA
today's gun fight is usually because of a crime either to defend yourself/property or the possiblity to save some one elses life... if you don't go in with intention of winning you really shouldn't be there..
avoid the option because the part 1 of winning is going to probably co$t you an part 2 is you now have to live with fact you took a life.
its also possible there is a part 3 back in the wild west if you won you became a target... just a thought
in the old days a dual was a gun fight... the object was to win an defend your honor or maybe a womens Ha HA
today's gun fight is usually because of a crime either to defend yourself/property or the possiblity to save some one elses life... if you don't go in with intention of winning you really shouldn't be there..
avoid the option because the part 1 of winning is going to probably co$t you an part 2 is you now have to live with fact you took a life
its also possible there is a part 3 back in the wild west if you won you became a target... just a thought
BSA1
member
Win by Dying?
Hummm,
Interesting question.
I’ll start by saying I strongly disagree with “Don’t Get Shot” and “Don’t Be There.”
Don’t Get Shot relies on too many variables such as how good of shot the attacker(s) is/are, available cover, what type and how powerful the attackers firearms are.
Don’t Be There. Unless you live as a hermit and have others go out in public for you to buy your food, clothing, etc. and you refuse to go get medical care you run the risk of being attacked. Obviously in most communities / areas that risk is low and close to non-existent.
Have a Gun. It is possible to win without a gun based on element of surprise, being close enough to use another weapon for example a club or being a able to overcome being shot for example being shot in the arm with a .22.
Don’t Get Shot. I have seen to many gunshots in Hospital E.R. to know getting shot does not necessarily incapacitate the victim.
So that leaves Win. After reading about this incident it is possible to win if others survive. As near as I can tell the gun shop owner put up a good fight but he was just overwhelmed by sheer numbers (4 against 1). But he did win by saving the life of his wife, others in the shop and maybe responders.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-suburban-kansas-city-gun-shop-shot-nearby-28122901
Hummm,
Interesting question.
I’ll start by saying I strongly disagree with “Don’t Get Shot” and “Don’t Be There.”
Don’t Get Shot relies on too many variables such as how good of shot the attacker(s) is/are, available cover, what type and how powerful the attackers firearms are.
Don’t Be There. Unless you live as a hermit and have others go out in public for you to buy your food, clothing, etc. and you refuse to go get medical care you run the risk of being attacked. Obviously in most communities / areas that risk is low and close to non-existent.
Have a Gun. It is possible to win without a gun based on element of surprise, being close enough to use another weapon for example a club or being a able to overcome being shot for example being shot in the arm with a .22.
Don’t Get Shot. I have seen to many gunshots in Hospital E.R. to know getting shot does not necessarily incapacitate the victim.
So that leaves Win. After reading about this incident it is possible to win if others survive. As near as I can tell the gun shop owner put up a good fight but he was just overwhelmed by sheer numbers (4 against 1). But he did win by saving the life of his wife, others in the shop and maybe responders.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-suburban-kansas-city-gun-shop-shot-nearby-28122901
The first rule of Gunfight Club is that you don't talk about Gunfight Club.
Way too many "X" and "Y" variables in this to make an educated deduction.
Though if this gun fight in avoidable, not being there in the first place makes the most sense.
Or if you have an alien bounty hunter named Greedo sitting across the table from you at the Mos Isley Cantina, shooting first is the best option.
If this is a gentlemens duel, being faster and more accurate has an edge.
Of course living to tell the tale is paramount in this venture.
So if this is going to happen speed, accuracy and viable cover would be the best rules to follow.
So I'm voting other: If you are going to get in a gunfight, you better have the skillset to back it up.
Way too many "X" and "Y" variables in this to make an educated deduction.
Though if this gun fight in avoidable, not being there in the first place makes the most sense.
Or if you have an alien bounty hunter named Greedo sitting across the table from you at the Mos Isley Cantina, shooting first is the best option.
If this is a gentlemens duel, being faster and more accurate has an edge.
Of course living to tell the tale is paramount in this venture.
So if this is going to happen speed, accuracy and viable cover would be the best rules to follow.
So I'm voting other: If you are going to get in a gunfight, you better have the skillset to back it up.
Old Dog
Member
Pretty much sums it up for me ... Have the mindset to use your weapon. I've seen plenty of folk carry guns but don't have a clue what it will take to use 'em when things go bad.
Anyway, if you posit rules for a gunfight, to me, that presumes that all participants ALREADY have guns.
So, follow up by: have a plan. Have training. Have a nice day.
Anyway, if you posit rules for a gunfight, to me, that presumes that all participants ALREADY have guns.
So, follow up by: have a plan. Have training. Have a nice day.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Let us start with a discussion of Situational awareness, training and mindset. All those other things will follow and fall into place.
dusty14u
Member
^^^This^^^
I think it is rather bizarre to have a choice of "don't be there" and then ask about a gunfight. If you aren't there then there is no gunfight. Period. Who comes up this stuff?
I think it is rather bizarre to have a choice of "don't be there" and then ask about a gunfight. If you aren't there then there is no gunfight. Period. Who comes up this stuff?
notaglockfanboy
Member
+1 to post #7. If I can help it, I am going to be somewhere else.
Just because you aren't there doesn't mean there isn't a gunfight, necessarily, you know. I mean, I haven't been in a gunfight, but I'm pretty sure gunfights have occurred.
And when it comes to private citizen carrying firearms for defense, specifically, it is almost always preferable to avoid the situation entirely. That's the point to "don't be there". Not everybody truly and fully understands that avoidance and deescalation are the most important things.
orionengnr
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Then your question is pointless.
Read in context, the question (as phrased) implies that you are going to be involved. Otherwise, the question is as relevant as "How do you survive a tsunami in Toronto?" or "How do you survive a blizzard in Haiti?"
The #1 rule for a gunfight is to have a gun. Otherwise, all is lost before it begins...unless you are Superman (bullets bounce off you) or you can outrun a bullet. I don't know anyone who can pull off either of the above tricks.
The other choices, such as "survive", "don't get shot", "there are no rules", etc... again presuppose that you are involved...otherwise, it is trivial to survive if you are not there. It is easy to not get shot if you are not there...and whether there are rules or not is immaterial if you are not there. And if you aren't there, you cannot win...or lose.
So the poll, as presented, has only one answer that makes sense.
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splattergun
Member
Do your best to avoid a fight. If you must fight, use every skill and tool at your disposal to win.
True for hand to hand fighting, gunfights, and nuclear war.
True for hand to hand fighting, gunfights, and nuclear war.
larbear
Member
In a self defense situation a person is reacting to a threat. If the threat cannot be avoided , then to eliminate the threat the greatest amount of focused violence be brought to bear until treat is eradicated.
If you have liberal leanings shoot the gun out of his hand, If your leanings are more to the right center of mass will probably take care of it......
If you have liberal leanings shoot the gun out of his hand, If your leanings are more to the right center of mass will probably take care of it......
Red Wind
Member
Firefox foul up.. See below.
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