What really happens ...

[Mudinyeri]

... when you have to defend yourself in your home with a gun?

Recently, the wife of an acquaintance was forced to defend herself and her children while alone in her home. Her husband was at work and received a call that went something like this:

Phone Rings
Husband: Hi sweetie!
Wife: I need you home now, I just shot two invaders!
Husband: On the way now! (end of call)

Link to news story:
http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-news-mother-shoots-home-invaders-story,0,4223636.story

Now that the dust has settled a bit, the husband has jotted down some of his thoughts about what happens after you are forced to defend yourself in your home. Below, posted with his permission, are his pearls of wisdom after going through something we all hope we can avoid:

What do you do when you have no choice but to use deadly force to protect your family? I think that the best way to explain what we did is to use an outline.

Here is a list of things you need to do now to prepare for this:
· Have a plan on how you want the family to respond in case of such an event.
We had a “safe” room where the wife and kids would go while I provided cover but no plan on her being home alone.

· Look up, and interview a hand full of lawyers. Find one you are comfortable with and establish a report in the off chance you might need legal counsel.
We did not do this. I did have a name and contact information but had not gotten around to calling him yet.

· Be prepared to lose whatever weapon you use to police custody for a very long time.
Even though my wife was cleared of all charges, my gun will be in custody for at least two years according to the police department. The point here is to have another weapon because you will not feel safe without one.

· Check with your insurance company for the bio-hazard clean-up.
I got lucky here because I never thought of it before. Actually I don’t know for sure if any would not cover for something but it never hurts to ask.

· Take care of your friends! It is good to have them in times of trouble.
If you think it’s hard to find help moving, try getting out of your house in 10 hours when there is blood on the floor and nothing is packed.

· Find a safe location that you can stay at for at least a week.

Short term priories:
· Make sure your family is safe first! Nothing else matters at this point.
· Get out of the area, the house, the city, and do not talk to the press.
My wife was told by our lawyer she needed to give a statement to the press. He made all the arrangements, screened all her answers, and made sure her face was hidden.

· Get supplies to last for a week (cloths, meds, kid’s favorite toys…)
· Find a place for household items.
I had the entire house into a storage unit within 12 hours of the first shot.

· Contact your Lawyer.
· Set up counseling, even if you don’t need it immediately after.
· Contact your homeowner’s insurance company and get the cleanup started and the house secured.

Long term goals:
· Is your house in an area you can go back to? If not then make sure you can afford to pay a mortgage and still have enough money left over to live somewhere else.
Mine is not. My neighbors support our actions but the other small time gang members do not.

· If possible get out of the area.
I moved 30 miles away and am actively looking to move out of the state. There is no way to put a price on peace of mind.

 

[Lou McGopher]

Good information to keep in mind. Thank you.

I'm curious why the lawyer wanted a statement made to the press? Is there some benefit to her in regards to the investigation, is this simply a good thing to do for the way one is viewed in the eyes of the community, or is the lawyer pro-RKBA and want to encourage gun ownership?

 

[easyg]

If you think it’s hard to find help moving, try getting out of your house in 10 hours when there is blood on the floor and nothing is packed.

Find a safe location that you can stay at for at least a week.

Get out of the area, the house, the city, and do not talk to the press.

Get supplies to last for a week (cloths, meds, kid’s favorite toys…)
Find a place for household items.
I had the entire house into a storage unit within 12 hours of the first shot.

If possible get out of the area.
I moved 30 miles away and am actively looking to move out of the state. There is no way to put a price on peace of mind.

Unless you just shot a member of the mafia, Hells Angels, or MS13 (or similar gang) I don't see the need to vacate the house or move to another state.

My wife was told by our lawyer she needed to give a statement to the press.

Bad advice in my opinion.
No citizen who shoots someone in self defense is obligated to give a statement to the press.
Save your statements for the courtroom.

 

[AndrewH]

Well, it's a good thing she ended up okay, as well as her family. I don't necessarily think moving away is something to consider, unless the neighborhood you're leaving is degraded or moving in that direction..

 

[Shadow 7D]

If you have blood stains, you might want to have somewhere else to be so you aren't getting ran over by the cops and CSI guys, oh and it's no fun to have your toddler playing in some dead guys blood, never know what those damn criminals might be carrying.

 

[esquare]

That's a real wake up call. I've been listening to armed american radio and a few of their broadcasts that detail actual self defense cases, and the truth is that no matter the outcome, no one wins. These two guys have forced this family to uproot and move for protection against reprisal, have forced them to hire an attorney, and I'm sure there will be a lot of sleepless nights and a lifetime of questions about why. But that's still better, IMO, than watching some scumbag beat your kids to death because you caught them stealing from you.

I just wish the media would follow up on some of these cases and show just how painful it is for the survivors. Chances are they have no clue though.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

My wife was told by our lawyer she needed to give a statement to the press.
Bad advice in my opinion.

Ordinarily yes, however, here the statements were vetted by the lawyer! The lawyer knows the local systems and if that's what he thinks is best go for it. Often it is extremely helpful to get out and explain your side of the story first, so someone else does not do it for you.

 

[esquare]

About moving out - the OP alluded to some type of gang presence there that was connected to those two guys. IMO that's not a scenario in which I would stick around for any length of time. Gangs don't have jobs, have all day to conjure up revenge, obviously have no respect for others, and are obsessive about being on top. Meanwhile, home owners have kids and family to look after, house to protect, jobs to work, etc. It's obvious what's going to happen in that situation. IMO, if you ever get involved with a gang (and this is unfortunately getting involved in a pretty major way) then you better get out ASAP and disappear yourself.

 

[Crusader103]

My wife was told by our lawyer she needed to give a statement to the press.

Bad advice in my opinion.
No citizen who shoots someone in self defense is obligated to give a statement to the press.
Save your statements for the courtroom.

While providing a statement to the media personally is generally considered a bad idea, it is not always a bad idea for your attorney to provide a brief statement.

Having your attorney provide the statement prevents you from being locked into having said anything in terms of legalities. So why would you want your lawyer to provide a statement to the media? Here's why, and only in certain circumstances.

Like it or not, media plays an important role in public perception. The public in turn often plays a role in demanding/not demanding "justice." Too often, the person the friends/family/others are demanding be brought to justice is you, and not the person you shot. You see, up until the moment you shot him or her that perp was an an angel who was a blessing on every person they came into contact with. You just stole that from the world.

When the family of the "victim," or the media for that matter, make a lot of noise it can be preferable for your side to at least get out a short statement so that the public has the opportunity to hear a differing opinion.

A statement along the lines of, "My client was forced to take action against the felonious assault of the deceased. While my client personally grieves for the loss of life, it was not a decision they ever wished to have had to make. My client is thankful just to be alive after suffering through the criminal assault of the deceased, a person whom I might add is no stranger to the criminal justice system."

Again, I would not encourage a statement be made in every situation. In fact, it is quite rarely beneficial. Only when the defender is being characterized in a way that is untrue and detrimental would I recommend it. Even in that case, the statement should be made by the attorney, and not the actor.

You might say that statements are better left for the courts, and you would be correct in that. Nonetheless, the value of the court of public opinion working either for or against you cannot be overlooked.

 

[Warhawk83]

I'm glad his wife handled it when she needed to and hate that she has to deal with this the rest of her life. However, I wouldn't uproot my family unless there were credible death threats flying around. Also, definitely wouldn't issue a statement to the press.

 

[Yarddog]

It's also NICE to have a Castle Docrine JMO ; )
Y/D

 

[leadcounsel]

Overall good tips.

Getting a statement of innocence out could squash any allegations of racism (if the criminal was a minority, for instance) which could really fuel the fire if the allegations gained traction. Large posters of the "innocent" youth's 10th grade school picture, "murdered" while asking for directions at the racists house! Also pressure the DA to drop the case.

The insurance bit is nice. Wouldn't want to pay for cleanup. Would probably file a lawsuit and press charges against the intruder!

I am skeptical of the loss of the weapon for two years. Must be a controversial case where there is a question about self defense. I would think in a cut and dried case the DA would close it and the cops would give the evidence back. But good advice about always having a backup.

 

[Al Thompson]

Wonder if they took only the firearm used in the shooting or would the officers confiscate any more in the house?

 

[Crusader103]

Wonder if they took only the firearm used in the shooting or would the officers confiscate any more in the house?

While working patrol, it was our practice to take all firearms in the home for "safekeeping" if the incident was remotely firearm related. Before you bash me too much, that was department policy. Personally, I didn't make a really concerted effort to find all of the weapons if you know what I mean. Further, absent cause, you'd likely be under no obligation to advise me about additional weapons.

 

[Al Thompson]

Good reason to leave one with your buddy.

OP, lots of support for the lady if you read the comments on the article you linked.

 

[mptrimshop]

well atleast ya know the neighbor has a Dessert Eagle ...... he sound like he wanted the world to know......bet it gets stolen when he is at work

 

[Shadow 7D]

I know that there are a few cases, or at least incidents where all the firearms are taken,

BUT, and the Lawyers can explain why I'm right or wrong, I believe that you can limit the scope of the investigation, and just tell the cops to piss off if they ask about other guns, as they aren't really pertinent to the investigation, and you get your lawyer to write the letter to the judge to get your gun back, as if the DA doesn't press charges, the most they are going to use the gun for is matching (maybe) slugs at the autopsy, hell don't even think it would be evidence in the other guys trial, BUT if it was entered (and not just the matching bullets) then yeah, 2 years, easily.

 

[lions]

While working patrol, it was our practice to take all firearms in the home for "safekeeping" if the incident was remotely firearm related.

Can someone legally say no to this and what would happen if they did?

 

[Jim K]

Unless the people involved have political pull, the shooter will probably be arrested, even if defending his/her home or life. Some police/prosecutors have a policy that anyone shooting anyone will be charged and arrested regardless of the circumstances, that all guns in the home will be seized (and destroyed unless a court orders otherwise), and that any and all witnesses will be held until the prosecutor orders them released. Children will be turned over to social services, everyone else goes to jail.

Complaining or whining about your rights will get you nothing but a police blackjack across the mouth. That kind of thing is the reason to have a lawyer on call. And memorize his telephone number; the cops will take wallets, purses, notebooks, PDAs, cell phones, even scraps of paper.

Jim

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

This is funny because I just watched the Kevin Bacon movie "Death Sentence", where he witnesses some gang-bangers murder his son in a gas station, finds out later it wasn't even a robbery, but an "initiation killing". He decides not to testify against the thug because the Prosecutor wants to make a deal for 3-5 years; instead he become a vigilante. He follows the thug and knifes him, but the gang finds out who did it. Now it's on with the whole gang, and his wife and other son are at risk. It's Hollywood, so of course the cops stand back and let it happen, as if a police detective is gonna nudge-wink about a killing spree. But without the cop stand-down there's no movie.

There's a great scene where Bacon buys a shotgun, 2 semi-autos and a big .357, then takes them home and tries to figure out how to use 'em. Pretty funny to see him flinch when a cartridge ejects, but by the end of the scene he's doing all the Rambo moves.

Worth a rental.

 

[David E]

Before you bash me too much, that was the department's UNCONSTITUTIONAL policy.

Corrected it for you.........

 

[Jenrick]

All of the weapons in the residence are seized to determine what weapon was actually used. Normally this is a quick process that unless there is some sort of hangup they will be returned in a week or two. Make sense? Not really, but it's homicide detectives for you. You can have two .45 ACP shells on the carpet and they'll want to take all the .22lr's "just in case." If you get lucky and get a detective that's a shooter they might bypass that.

On the gun being held for 2 years. Normally an item of evidence needs to have a property hearing to be returned, this applies to everything from a bloody knife to a stack of paperwork from an embezzlement case. The hearing covers, who the original owner is, who has an interest/claim to the item, etc. These are civil hearings so they are scheduled 6 months in advance. One of the lawyers forgets he has a tee time that morning, and will get it reset for another 6 months, etc. It's mainly the BS bureaucratic nonsense that makes it take that long.

-Jenrick

 

[leadcounsel]

All these posts about ALL of the weapons being seized and mandatory arrests --- I'm naturally a bit synical.

I guess it's important to pick what jurisdiction you live in.

I can see detaining a person temporarily for questioning (either on the spot or 'down town'), and also requesting to see all of the firearms in the home to rule out the ones that were obviously not used (either too large or too small of a caliber). But I'd immediately file and injunction to prevent the confiscation of ALL of my guns by the LEOs. I'd have the DA on the phone in a New York minute.

 

[easyg]

Unless the people involved have political pull, the shooter will probably be arrested, even if defending his/her home or life. Some police/prosecutors have a policy that anyone shooting anyone will be charged and arrested regardless of the circumstances, that all guns in the home will be seized (and destroyed unless a court orders otherwise), and that any and all witnesses will be held until the prosecutor orders them released. Children will be turned over to social services, everyone else goes to jail.

Exactly what city, state, or county has such a policy as the one you describe?

As for the two-year weapon confiscation....

I was on the jury for a case where a young man shot his father while the old man was sleeping, but the incident happened about three years prior to the trial.
Yep, the kid spent three years locked up waiting for his day in court (bail was denied as the kid was a flight risk per the courts).
They showed the jury a rifle that had been determined to be the murder weapon....I suppose it had been in the evidence locker for as long as the kid had been in jail....about three years.


Easy

 

[leadcounsel]

Yes the weapon will be in evidence if you are going to trial...

However, if you're going to trial then the LEAST of your worries is a $500 firearm!!!

I thought we were talking about legitimate self defense. Here's how I think it would play out.

1. Legit self defense incident (home or in public).
2. Police temporarily detain you and disarm you. If you're smart you'll tell them you were assaulted with deadly force, feared for your life, and want to talk to a lawyer. Within hours your lawyer would talk to the police on your behalf. By then the detectives and police would have made an on the spot determination as to whether your actions would have been justified and their reports would state as much.
3. The DA isn't going to create more work for himself than necessary. He'll read the reports and no charges would be filed.
4. Firearm released from evidence/police custody shortly thereafter.

Of course it can get more complicated, and is highly dependent on facts, but that's how I see legit self defense playing out.