Does NOT Seem Like A Good Plan To Me

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Treo

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Got an email from USCCA today W/ a story about a guy that survived a home invasion because he and the wife had a plan.

I have to give the guy props on two points 1.) He had a plan and 2.) He and his wife drilled it and used it when needed.

But I also have a critque, and I'd like to get some feed back. Here's the story

Toney neighborhood, early evening, man & his wife just finished dinner. Man's in the livingroom in a recliner, wife's in the bathroom.

Man's sitting in the LR small dog W/him gets up and walks into the kitchen. About that time the man here's a loud crash assumes the dog knocked something over and gets up to investigate.as her approaches the kitchen he comes face to face W/ a crackhead W/ an aluminum baseball bat. This is where the emergency action drill commences.

Man turns and runs, yelling the emergency codeword ( special word that would never come up in normal conversation such as "gorillabutt". At the sound of the word wife comes out of the bathroom and runs to the bedroom husband right behind her. BR has been made into a saferoom. Plan was they both hole up in the safe room, wife grabs XD45 off the nightstand, husband grabs the 870 and gets ready to defend the door while wife is calling 911.

The plan worked ok except for wife almost shut husband out of the room.

Bad guy is locked out in hallway starts kicking door. Husband ( I cringe to say this) racks the slide on the shotgun and BG runs away.

Like I said, they had a plan, they practiced it and , ultimately, it worked.

My Critque

When husband moved toward the kitchen he moved away from his defensive weapon and his safe room. This was an older couple what if the BG beat him to the room? What if Wife locked the door W/ husband on the wrong side? ( as almost happened)

I can only type so much text on my phone so I'll have to finish in a second post
 
Does NOT Seem Like A Good Plan To Me Part 2

Now here's how the seen would have played in Treo's house

Treo's sitting in the recliner, large dog goes to kitchen. Treo hears Gawd awful crash from the kitchen, gets up draws his CCW that he is never W/out and as he goes to investigate runs into the aforementioned crack head W/ baseball bat the crackhead is promptly covered by Treo's EDC (CZ75B) & and give one chance to surrender. Based on the crackhead's response Treo takes appropriate action while dear wife is calling the fuzz to come clean up the mess.

I like my plan better :D

Seriously, do you guys agree that my concerns are valid?

What would you have done differently?
 
I dont understand when you say moving toward the kitchen and away from his weapon was a mistake. He thought the loud crash was his dog. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

I give them big props for having a plan and using it. 90% of the people I know don't even have a gun in the house and would be forced to defend themselves against the baseball bat.
 
He thought the loud crash was his dog. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

His assumption was perfectly reasonable, and perfectly wrong.

Any way you slice it he damn near walked right into the bad guy unarmed. That's why I say it was a mistake. (IMO) His first mistake was not having the gun on him.

ETA
If you were the one it happened to would you rather have your gun in hour hand or sitting on your nightstand when you ran into the bad guy?
 
Treo,

I like your plan.

Sooner or later someone is going to slam you for wearing a gun in your house but it won't be me. In my business most of the folks I deal with go away mad at me and have good reason to stay that way. At home, I've always got one of my smaller guns on my person (this will be a compact .45 auto, a three inch Lew Horton S&W .44 Mag or a .357 Colt Lawman 2 inch, since I don't consider my LCP big enough for this role).

Aside from bad guys dropping by to work off old grudges, there is the home invasion angle. I've read on this forum that this is not a likely threat but my real world experience leads me to believe that it is. We've had three home invasion style robberies in my neighborhood in the last few days. In each case it is three bad guys in ski masks. I live in an upper middle class neighborhood but these things can happen anywhere given the social environment we experience today. Wise people will have and practice a good plan.

Last night at about 4;00 AM my two German Shepherd Dogs alerted. I had heard nothing. On checking, six inch Smith .44 in hand, wife covering me with her .45, I found three large deer almost on my porch. The deer ran as deer will do. I gave the dogs a good pat on their big heads, went back to bed and slept like a baby.

Good plans, good training, good guns, good practice, good dogs... Works for me.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
They won. It was a good plan. As Jeff White has said, you can't live with your magazines stacked and your pins straightened 24/7.
It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the dog was responsible for the noise.

Biker
 
Wasn't it Patton that said better a good plan now, executed violently, rather than a perfect plan later? :)
I hear what you're saying, Treo, and I also carry in my house, not to mention dogs who would go nuts when someone is outside the house, much less trying to break in, and an armed wife, but as noted, these people did survive.

"Gorrillabutt" shouted around here might get you killed... :)
 
It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the dog was responsible for the noise.

I don't think you and Korbin are getting my point, irrespective of how reasonable, or how likely, it was to assume the dog ( a daschhund if that makes any difference) made the noise in this case it was the wrong assumption.

How do you suppose this story might have turned out had our home owner decided to wait till his next kitchen run to see what kind of mess the dog made?

As Jeff White has said, you can't live with your magazines stacked and your pins straightened 24/7.

Jeff White may not be able to but I sure as Hell can :D

EDIT:

Just so we're all on the same page, I'm not bashing their plan. As everybody ,including me, has pointed out they did live ( I don't think the dog did though :( )
But IMO luck played an entirely too big part in their survival.
I'm just trying to point out some mistakes that I saw
 
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"As Jeff White has said, you can't live with your magazines stacked and your pins straightened 24/7."

'Jeff White may not be able to but I sure as Hell can.'

I've done it, but it sure is taxing. Can't do it for long.

Biker
 
With respect, Mr. White may not have to live that way 24/7. Some do. I'm one of them. It's a different life style, but it's not all that taxing or intrusive to me and mine. Most of my friends don't even notice.

What ever comforts you in the night... This works well for me.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
I don't think you and Korbin are getting my point, irrespective of how reasonable, or how likely, it was to assume the dog ( a daschhund if that makes any difference) made the noise in this case it was the wrong assumption.

I have yet to find a training academy in clairvoyance. The most likely scenario was the dog had dumped something over. He responded reasonably to that.
It's like saying a police officer is wrong to shoot an unarmed perp in a dark alley because the officer's assumption that he was going for his gun was wrong. Nonsense.

As for sitting with mags stacked and pins drawn, some people need to get a life.
 
I have yet to find a training academy in clairvoyance.

Neither have I, that's why I carry 24/7. And that's why every loud "bump in the night" gets investigated W/ a gun in hand.

Home invasions are becoming more and more common and IMO the odds of being involved in one will go up expotentially as the economy crashes.

My biggest criticism of this guy is that he should have been packin' from the git go.

I'm going to ask again; When the badguy W/ the baseball bat shows up in your livingroom do you want the gun on your nighttable on in your hand?
 
Dark Soldier said:
With respect, Mr. White may not have to live that way 24/7. Some do. I'm one of them. It's a different life style, but it's not all that taxing or intrusive to me and mine. Most of my friends don't even notice.

What ever comforts you in the night... This works well for me

Jeff is talking about living in COndition RED 24 / 7 / 365. It can't be done, that is the whole point of the color coding system. You are supposed to use the appropriate color codes for the appropriate times.

The Cooper Color Code System said:
White - Unaware and unprepared. If attacked in Condition White, the only thing that may save you is the inadequacy or ineptitude of your attacker. When confronted by something nasty, your reaction will probably be "Oh my God! This can't be happening to me."

Yellow - Relaxed alert. No specific threat situation. Your mindset is that "today could be the day I may have to defend myself." You are simply aware that the world is a potentially unfriendly place and that you are prepared to defend yourself, if necessary. You use your eyes and ears, and realize that "I may have to SHOOT today." You don't have to be armed in this state, but if you are armed you should be in Condition Yellow. You should always be in Yellow whenever you are in unfamiliar surroundings or among people you don't know. You can remain in Yellow for long periods, as long as you are able to "Watch your six." (In aviation 12 o'clock refers to the direction in front of the aircraft's nose. Six o'clock is the blind spot behind the pilot.) In Yellow, you are "taking in" surrounding information in a relaxed but alert manner, like a continuous 360 degree radar sweep.

Orange - Specific alert. Something is not quite right and has gotten your attention. Your radar has picked up a specific alert. You shift your primary focus to determine if there is a threat (but you do not drop your six). Your mindset shifts to "I may have to shoot HIM today." In Condition Orange, you set a mental trigger: "If that goblin does 'x', I will need to stop him." Your pistol usually remains holstered in this state. Staying in Orange can be a bit of a mental strain, but you can stay in it for as long as you need to. If the threat proves to be nothing, you shift back to Condition Yellow.

Red - Condition Red is fight. Your mental trigger (established back in Condition Orange) has been tripped. You take appropriate action.
 
Good morning friends.

In my opinion, the first weapons for home defense are strong doors and locks. It would be possible for a BG to break his way into my home. But the time it would take him to get in would more than insure his entrance into a crossfire zone covered by me with a High Standard Riot shotgun and under the deadly muzzle of the incomparable Sunflower's Browning HiPower.
 
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I think you are arguing semantics here, obviously the man did not equate the noise to someone breaking and entering. Otherwise he might have armed himself before investigating. Don't get me wrong to each his own but I believe that response should be based upon the percieved threat.
 
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I don't think I have the testosterone level needed to post in this discussion.


You need a place to live and times you can go into condition white. Cooper never said we couldn't live in condition white. He even went onto discuss times it was appropriate.


Living life with mags stacked and pins straightened . . . . You guys do realize that even in combat there are times scheduled for R&R. And besides the last series of wars in dry countries, soldiers would come back from the field and get butt-drunk in garrison.
 
I believe his plan is EXACTLY what it would have been at my house. Substitute my wife's CZ-75 for the XD and my norinco for the 870 and you've got it. Why do you cringe when the husband racks the slide? I've been told to keep my shotgun without one in the hole as it isn't drop safe...

I agree with Biker. I do not live in fear. If God allows something bad to happen he will either have me ready for it or maybe i won't be. If I die I know where I'm going. I want to protect my wife and family foremostly but after that...I don't live in fear. I live prepared.

~Norinco
 
Why do you cringe when the husband racks the slide?

Because of the myth that just racking the slide will cause the bad guy to poop his pants and run. Apparently the guy had a round in the chamber and cycled the gun any way

I don't live in fear. I live prepared.

How come what ever you do is being prepared and me carrying at home is living in fear?
 
I stand behind what I said. I live in a heightened state of awareness by necessity and personal choice. I didn't mention anything about the well respected color codes and it has nothing to do with testosterone levels. A teenage girl with proper training and mindset could do anything I can do. I don't expect others to live by what works for me and I don't judge them by what worked for them (even when I disagree). I expect the same courtesy in return.

There is an undercurrent of arrogance to some of the posts that I don't really understand. Unless I've missed something, I don't think it's wise or constructive to be disrespectful of others who hold different opinions and follow different practices than we.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
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The home owners plan is flawed in a couple big ways, 1 What if the Perp came in though the bedroom window? 2. What if the Perp was between the man and the room?

The only Logical plan must have a plan B. I'm referring to Big Bullets in Big Gun in Belt!!!
 
Because of the myth that just racking the slide will cause the bad guy to poop his pants and run. Apparently the guy had a round in the chamber and cycled the gun any way
Not only is that not a myth, that is in fact what happened in this case.
I don't know why people want to go to absurd lengths to deny something that has strong anecdotal evidence.

As for living with gun on belt 24/7, I find it vaguely pathetic.
 
Their plan worked. no one was killed. It's easy to second guess them but it ended ok for the couple. Is there room for improvment? yes they learned a lot I am sure.
 
No one I know lives with a gun on them 24/7. And I know my fair share of people in this industry.

A very few I know will have one on them during their waking hours. But not 24/7. Even when they were deployed to warzones.


Most of us allow ourselves time to relax with our families, drink a few glasses of wine, and have sex with our wives before drifting off to a nice rest. Living with mags stacked and pins straightened is not a healthy life. There are times when it's necessary, but it's not how I want to live. It's not an existence I want to raise a family in.


Locks and alarm systems in our homes, be they dogs or electronic systems, allow us to live in condition white at home. They are there to give us time to become aware of a problem and move to a heightened state of alert. When something occurs to trip that alarm system, or those barriers to our homes are broken, response plans are put into effect.

Until then we go about our lives. Kids do homework, watch t.v., and play games. We do our chores, and we busy ourselves with our daily tasks and living our lives.


Healthy people lead healthy lives. Only on the internet do I hear of people who live with mags stacked and pins straightened. I've never met one person who actually lives otherwise. Not one. And I know some pretty eccentric people.


Treo, maybe "packin' from the git go" would have given him time to shoot this fellow. Maybe it would have worked out better, maybe it would have worked out worse. Who can say? We can get shot through the window before someone enters our homes, too. So why not wear body armor at home, and send out hourly foot patrols?


His family had a plan. The plan worked. I'm not going to sit here and criticize people who don't walk around their homes with guns on their hips. Nor will I criticize those who choose to. But when someone suggests they actually live their lives with mags stacked and pins straightened . . . well, I've never met someone who really lived that way in the domestic United States. And those who do, I'm not sure I'd want to go over to their house for supper.
 
BullFrogKen,

If you came to my house for supper (you're welcome anytime), you wouldn't see any difference between me and mine than any other hungry folks setting down to eat.

I think where we are getting sideways on this topic is that some of us seem unable to accept the fact that there are other paths than the ones we have walked or are aware of. There are people I know who would judge me as not being careful enough, and there are those who feel I am too careful. They have been in different places than I and they have been shaped by different experiences than I. They, and their opinions, are no less deserving of respect.

I'm glad that some of us live in a world where they can feel, based on their experience that my precautions are "vaguely pathetic". I spent a lot of my life trying to create that very kind world for them. I don't consider them sheep or asleep at the wheel. What works for them will simply not work for me. Neither of us is wrong.

That dinner invitation still holds by the way.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier
 
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