Friend of a Friend was Shot

[MtnCreek]

Sorry I haven't linked a newspaper story. The link that Mr. Arsenal posted is not the same event. When I was told about this on Saturday, I didn't ask many questions. My friend and mainly his wife (see saw it) seemed a little uneasy discussing it. I'm going to try to stop by and see him this weekend and hopefully get more info (maybe including a newspaper story).

 

[Cards81fan]

I would suspect it is the story that walking arsenal linked. It is from December 2010 and has a victim shot in the stomach as a service station in south ATL.



I checked the intersection and saw it was a BP. Now, I know in Tulsa, Kansas City, St Louis, Phoenix... if I am going somewhere late, it is a Quiktrip. Even in the shadier parts of those cities, they are well-lit and have multiple employees on duty. In Tulsa, LEOs and EMTs sit there on watch, as it is busy and they get free coffee. I believe Atlanta has QTs.

I know I am getting specific, but I agree that the biggest error was judgement in where to stop. Risk avoidance is the most successful risk management technique, and it was not exercised here, or exercised poorly. There are many places I would rather go without a gun before I went somewhere I felt I needed to be armed. Though in both scenarios I would be carrying

 

[earlthegoat2]

They shouldn't have been in Atlanta?

Nope.

I never go there unarmed and I still dont like it. I much prefer my old home of Detroit to Atlanta.

 

[Mike J]

The Quiktrips around here are a good place to practice situational awareness. Forget worrying about getting robbed it is enough of a challenge to make it through the parking lot without hitting someone or getting run over. They stay packed out.

 

[Cards81fan]

The Quiktrips around here are a good place to practice situational awareness. Forget worrying about getting robbed it is enough of a challenge to make it through the parking lot without hitting someone or getting run over. They stay packed out.

I hear you there. Many near misses (or are they near hits) just trying get coffee in the morning.

But that is actually part of my point. That many people around may well discourage an attacker (though not the most brazen). Too many people to witness what is going on.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Some of you talk as if you have never had an restroom type of emergency.
It happens.
I know it has to me a couple of times due to eating at a certain cafe or restaurant and I could not be too choosy about the place I had to stop less I crap my pants.

Hehehehe, sorry, not making light of your situation, just that I've BTDT more times that I care to mention. Also practically had it runnin down my leg at times that I absofriggenlutely wasn't going to stop. I've still had confrontations I'd rather not had.

 

[kgpcr]

I head it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from a good source. Who really knows what happened here.

 

[MtnCreek]

I haven't had time to look for news stories, but if someone cares to:
Shooting took place after a recent Tim McGraw concert. Location was a BP station in East Point. This was within the last 3 weeks.

 

[Smoovbiscuit]

The people in the car should have been ready to use their guns, mentally and physically. Whats the point in carrying if your not?

If I was in the car when a situation as described happened, my hand would have been ready to draw as soon as the BG started acting suspicious, and I certainly would have shot at him as soon as I saw that he had a firearm drawn.

Now if I was the guy that got shot, I can't really say what I would have done. You'd think he could have returned fire, but its hard for me to say without having been there.

My point is you'd think if more than one of the victims friends were armed that they could have returned fire. Just my opinion. Sorry about your friend, hope he recovers OK.

 

[leadcounsel]

As usual, situational awareness would have prevented a lot of this.

Bad timing for a potty break - but sometimes it just happens that you have to stop. But best advice is to fuel up and go potty where it's safest.

Not knowing the conversation, we can speculate that it probably wasn't 'friendly' if it resulted in the shooter going to his vehicle and retrieving a long gun and shooting the victim. Again, situational awareness is key. The facts makes me believe he was not paying attention to the situation. He had 3 pairs of eyeballs and he should have taken some action to ask the others (who carry) to watch various sectors/directions. And he should have paid more attention to the shooter until the shooter left. Had he watched the shooter dig a rifle from his car, he could have taken evasive/defensive actions to save himself. Especially after the verbal exchange, he should have watched him all the way back to his car until he departed.

The lesson here is a good one. In addition to time/place caveats, if you must stop, without sounding hokey, just ask the others in your vehicle to watch different directions. "Hey, this is obviously a sketchy area. We are all armed. Can you keep an eye north and west and you south and east and I'll watch the store for anything shady, and we'll be outta here safely in a few minutes."

 

[Browns Fan]

This re-enforces my belief that open carry is a really bad idea.

 

[Balrog]

Take home message: Atlanta is a cesspool.

 

[MtnCreek]

Folks,
I'm sorry, but I was unable to find any news sources talking about this event. I tried searching the local Atl newspaper and google-news search. Maybe a shooting in the Atl area is not really news.

I have noticed that in the weeks since I was told of this shooting, I do find myself paying more attention to my surroundings. I had a set of rules that I followed while in Atl and surrounding areas; I since implemented some of them for everywhere I go (lock truck doors while driving, leave plenty of space between me and the car in front at stop signs/red lights, watch my side mirrors when stopped).

On a brighter note, a woman did shoot and kill a would-be rapist in here Gwinnett County, GA home last week! That one did make the news and I was proud that local Atl TV news told the story well! http://www.ajc.com/news/gwinnett/police-id-slain-home-942224.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

 

[thump_rrr]

I found the story.

http://www.ajc.com/video?bcpid=97471435001&bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAFAsZ1c~,8MkVRvW0DmauKT3uAriKKf2yHzTPz5MP&bclid=1716449804&bctid=95645574

Click on Local news and then click on the story on the right titled "thank you"

Apparently the victim who held the door open for the shooter waited for him to come back outside and demaned a "Thank You" for holding the door open for him. He got a bullet instead.

You can see him being shot on video.
The "victim" Jimmy Rogers admits on video that he waited for him to come out and demanded a "Thank You".
I think he got more than what he wanted.

 

[JohnKSa]

Here's the direct link.
http://bcove.me/nyqsde5g

Why go around "poking" people to see how they respond? Sooner or later you'll get some guy who's a psychopath or someone who's just gotten fired and is working through a messy divorce at the same time, or someone who's just hacked off at the entire world for no good reason.

I'm certainly not saying that the victim deserved to be shot, but what he did wasn't smart.

 

[Six]

In the video, it doesn't look like an off the cuff remark, it looks like he's shouting at the guy in the leather jacket.
First, that's not normal behavior.
Secondly, in my opinion, that looks like one bully running in to a bigger bully. It looks like he tried to intimidate the other guy into complying with his demands.

I have to wonder if he would have demanded a thank you if he had not had a gun.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

without sound in the video its hard to know what actually went on, verbally...

not saying its right but...

For all we know the shooter was on his way home, has some jackass start yelling at him over holding a door, whike carrying a gun openely...

Maybe the victim threatened him? Maybe the shooter made the mistake of not sticking around to give his side?

If I came out of a store and some dude(is there drinking at concerts out there BTW?) starts screaming at me while carrying an exposed gun, the moment he says something like "Im gonna shoot you in the face" I'm gonna draw my "roscoe" and then go home and eat a sandwich...

Can't see the shooters reaction while at car...

Yup... idiot was waiting for him with an exposed gun to demand a thank you....

If I was on the shooters jury I would have a hard time not finding that maybe he thought he was acting in self-defense... I bet ol'boy was drunk too... idiot.

Victim comes off as an <deleted> by the video.

 

[thump_rrr]

"Opened the door for him. He went in, never said thank you. I asked him to tell me thank you.He proceeded to buy some things and I went back outside, I was sitting outside waiting for him to come out."
"When he came out, you know, some words were exchanged again then that's when he went to his car and he opened up the door, put whatever he got inside it. That's when I thought he was leaving but I guess he wasn't. That's when he pulled out a gun and you know I heard a shot."

I guess he won't ask anyone to tell him Thank You anymore.

It appears to me that he used his gun as a talisman to earn/demand respect from others.
Once he gets shot he had no training or tactics to fall back on.

I believe it turned out better for him that he didn't return fire since I believe he's the one who started the confrontation.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Newspaper story - http://www.wsbtv.com/news/27880751/detail.html

Man Shot After Manners Scolding
Posted: 6:40 am EDT May 13, 2011
Updated: 1:07 pm EDT May 13, 2011

ATLANTA -- A Douglasville man said he was shot after trying to give another man a lesson on manners. Police are still looking for the shooter.
=================================================

It's sometimes said that you can pack a gun or you can pack an attitude, but you shouldn't pack both at the same time. And in my own humble opinion, you definitely shouldn't be packing both when you are OCing. I don't want this to turn into an OC versus CC battle, mind you, but IMHO OC was probably a factor in what ultimately happened.

Waiting outside the convenience store for the man in the leather jacket to come back out after initiating a verbal reprimand could be interpreted as predatory behavior. That's not excusing a lethal-force response without genuine cause, but it's necessary to examine these things as objectively as possible. And in court, this is not gonna look good to a judge or jury.

Following the man in the leather jacket down the sidewalk while apparently continuing a verbal exchange could be interpreted as provocation. Again, this does not excuse a lethal-force response without genuine cause, but we need to consider all aspects of the behavior involved here. Again, this is not going to look good in court.

At least one lesson to be learned from this - there are people out there who will shoot you without discussing it first. And given what transpired before the shooting, it might be a good thing that the shootee did not draw and return fire. I don't know Georgia's laws on self defense, but in my state it would be awfully easy for a DA to decide what transpired had the shootee returned fire was mutual combat and not self defense.

I'm sorry the shootee was painfully injured, placed in danger of losing his life, placed in danger of being paralyzed, will miss months of work, etc. but IMHO he could have almost certainly avoided it all by offering a smile and a nod and going on about his business. Moonlighting as Miss Manners with a gun was a bad choice in this situation.

jmho, ymmv,

lpl

 

[Sam1911]

but in my state it would be awfully easy for a DA to decide what transpired had the shootee returned fire was mutual combat and not self defense.

There was a segment in Tom Givens' Lessons From the Street DVD with a somewhat similar situation where the subject did shoot in what he thought was self-defense against multiple attackers, but his initiation of the contact/conflict proved very harmful to his case and he is extremely fortunate not to be in prison.

 

[Pilot]

Another incident of a gun giving someone false confidence, and bravado, IMHO. It could have turned out much worse.

 

[MtnCreek]

That is the man that I referred to; much different story than the one that I was told.

If anyone comments on this post, please remember that I don’t know what was said between the men and unless you have information from another source, you don’t know either.

The above was in my original post. The reason for this comment was that when I was told the story, someone present (while story was told) made an 'off color' comment without knowledge of what took place and I found it distasteful. That said, seems the conversation (if you could call it that) between shooter and shootee started the conflict and I agree that, right or wrong, the visable firearm on his hip likely upped the stakes.

Originally, my thoughts on this were focused on ‘don’t go to shady places’ and ‘don’t take your eye off possible threats’ and generally ‘be more aware’. All still holds true, but in light of what I’ve learned this morning, there are other lessons that could be learned from this shooting; most of which should be common knowledge.

All this is second and third hand info, so take it as such.

Yep. Reminds me of that little game we played in kindergarten; sit in a circle and pass a message around the room and see how it’s changed once it makes it around the room. I had no intentions to deceive; just passed along hearsay. Guess there’s a lesson in that for me.

 

[Six]

MtnCreek, there is a good lesson in strategy and tactics here. It might just not have been exactly what you intended. Thank you for starting the thread.

 

[Sam1911]

MtnCreek, there is a good lesson in strategy and tactics here. It might just not have been exactly what you intended. Thank you for starting the thread.

I recall a thread a while back where someone who considered himself to live by a certain code of honor asked exactly how it was that the armed person should go about correcting those folks who were impolite, impertinent, rude, and/or who caused some affront either willfully or ignorantly. In other words, when you're carrying a firearm (or not?) how do you approach someone who just cut in line, or who cut you off in traffic, or who spilled your drink and didn't offer to pay for it, or who didn't say "thank you" when you held the door for them?

This discussion is an eloquent answer to that question.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Post #44 nailed it.

The lesson I'd take away from this would be that you need to swallow your pride and avoid pointless confrontation when you are carrying. I've had to do it and it sucks, but that's the choice when we take on the huge responsibility of carrying.

The guy seems like nice guy and I hate it for him, but waiting outside with the intent of confrontation was not the thing to do.