What's wrong with people who are bashing .45's?
- Thread starter Rival
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Thos old clunk GM .45's had
no speed safeties, and no memory groove beavertail grip safeties, and the guys hadn't been taught to get a high grasp on the gun, and leave their thumbs atop the safeties while firing. A lot of GI mags are pieces of junk, too. I'll take the sometimes jamming 1911 .45, with its SA trigger pull and utterly reliable FIRST shot, over a toy of a .38, with lrn or Milatary fmj ammo, any day.
Many things can prevent a revolver from firing its first shot, and most of those things happen with military guns, in the jungle, and they happen often. They happen very frequently on dirt-sand airfields, too, with planes and choppers putting lots of dust and sand into the air, to get into the tight workings of a revolver. I have several times locked up tight a revolver, just by dropping it into a pile of limestone, a grain bin full of shelled corn or soybeans.
no speed safeties, and no memory groove beavertail grip safeties, and the guys hadn't been taught to get a high grasp on the gun, and leave their thumbs atop the safeties while firing. A lot of GI mags are pieces of junk, too. I'll take the sometimes jamming 1911 .45, with its SA trigger pull and utterly reliable FIRST shot, over a toy of a .38, with lrn or Milatary fmj ammo, any day.
Many things can prevent a revolver from firing its first shot, and most of those things happen with military guns, in the jungle, and they happen often. They happen very frequently on dirt-sand airfields, too, with planes and choppers putting lots of dust and sand into the air, to get into the tight workings of a revolver. I have several times locked up tight a revolver, just by dropping it into a pile of limestone, a grain bin full of shelled corn or soybeans.
cratz2
Member
Actually, this is the thread with more of a 'troll feel' to it. And I never used the word troll. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion and certainly is free to talk or post about it. But at a certain point, if it seems someone is just posting to bach one particular platform, esp one that got us through war after war after war after war, it starts to seem like he's either profiting for the sale of SIGs or is as well informed as he might think.
Mastrogiacomo
Member
It's kind of like when people bash all Beretta handguns I suppose. Probably ignorance.
New_comer
Member
I'll take the reciprocal stand (been a metric lover since TFL
)As far as the 1911 style of guns, I'm curious enough to give it a chance and buy one,
In time...
jrpeterman
Member
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I've owned only one .45 acp, a S & W 645. It was a sweet gun. I regret selling it. I've shot many different guns chambered for the .45 over the years: Sig, Colt, Kimber, S & W, Glock, Llama, Ithaca, etc. The .45 is a fine round as is the 9mm, 40 S & W, and .357 Sig. The Kimber and the Colt Gold Cup were the two most accurate 45's that I ever fired and were on par with the most accurate handguns that I had the pleasure to shoot. Though I don't currently own a .45, I am considering a CZ-97b for my next purchase just because of the raves over their accuracy out of the box ,and I want a .45 to fill the gap in my collection. I know people who own the Ruger 90 that swear by it's out of the box accuracy. What's nice is there are so many choices available for the .45 acp besides the 1911 design to suit the individual shooter.
Climb14er
Member
I have both 9mm and .45 acp's
and I personally enjoy the .45 acp as a round that is fairly straight forward to shoot with minimal recoil.
I carry my HK USPc most of the time because it's cocked and locked like a 1911 and it's much lighter with two mags and polymer frame, especially while backpacking and in the mountains.
My five inch all steel 1911 weighs approx 40 ounces, plus another 16 ounces for two full gov't mags. That's a lot of weight to be carrying in the mountains.
With Proload 124 gr. +P Gold Dots, I don't feel underpowered in the slightest. PLUS, the HK is TOTALLY reliable! That's the most important. And I have nite sights on the HK.
So, I'm a .45 acp guy but when it comes to packing lighter weight, the 9mm compact with +P's comes with me in a Safepacker holster.
and I personally enjoy the .45 acp as a round that is fairly straight forward to shoot with minimal recoil.
I carry my HK USPc most of the time because it's cocked and locked like a 1911 and it's much lighter with two mags and polymer frame, especially while backpacking and in the mountains.
My five inch all steel 1911 weighs approx 40 ounces, plus another 16 ounces for two full gov't mags. That's a lot of weight to be carrying in the mountains.
With Proload 124 gr. +P Gold Dots, I don't feel underpowered in the slightest. PLUS, the HK is TOTALLY reliable! That's the most important. And I have nite sights on the HK.
So, I'm a .45 acp guy but when it comes to packing lighter weight, the 9mm compact with +P's comes with me in a Safepacker holster.
chieftain
Member
CRATZ2 States
".....esp one that got us through war after war after war after war, it starts to seem like he's either profiting for the sale of SIGs or is as well informed as he might think."
Cratz2, once again attacking my integrity because you will not, or cannot argue on merit is sure frustrating. Then you accuse me of bashing! Simply amazing.
The main reason we used the 1911 in 4 major wars is that after the first one there was no other major caliber semi Auto, after WWII the military stated it wanted to change side arms. S&W developed the model 39 in preparation. The Korean war put that on the back burner. By the way think about the timing of the commander and the light weight commander.
Next was the Viet Nam war, we were still fighting over which rifle to use, much more important than handguns.
I wish I could profit from the sale of SIG's or HK's etc.... But I don't. I only have combat experience, apparently yours is much more compelling and extensive than mine.
Crats2 just for fun lets discuss the arguement on facts and not through dispersions on each other. By the way I think there are several reliable platforms for the 45, I just don't believe it's the 1911, unless it is semi custom or custom.
---------------------------
Okeydoke states:
"no speed safeties, and no memory groove beavertail grip safeties, and the guys hadn't been taught to get a high grasp on the gun, and leave their thumbs atop the safeties while firing. A lot of GI mags are pieces of junk, too. I'll take the sometimes jamming 1911 .45, with its SA trigger pull and utterly reliable FIRST shot, over a toy of a .38, with lrn or Milatary fmj ammo, any day.
Many things can prevent a revolver from firing its first shot, and most of those things happen with military guns, in the jungle, and they happen often. They happen very frequently on dirt-sand airfields, too, with planes and choppers putting lots of dust and sand into the air, to get into the tight workings of a revolver. I have several times locked up tight a revolver, just by dropping it into a pile of limestone, a grain bin full of shelled corn or soybeans."
----------------------------
Well Okeydoke, I carried a revolver for 2 tours in the Nam. I was with the 3rd Marine Division and attached to every one of their battalions ( 3th,4th,9thMarines) and companies at one time or other, also attached to 5 th Marines and 23rd Marines. But I was with the 3rd Marines most often. also did some special work.
During that time, believe it or not, I saw just a little dust and sand, some jungle and an airfield or two.
Never had my S&W or my M14 fail to go bang, even while the 1911's and Mattey Mattels jammed. Cleaned both guns twice a day. The only weapon I ever dropped was My M14 at Parris Island while learning the Manual of Arms. Only did that once, frankly it is both literally and figuratively a painful memory! I haven't dropped a weapon since that day, in limestone or corn or soybeans!
Okeydoky, reliablility is the single primary reason police in the United States stuck with the revolver for 70 years vs the 1911 which was the only other real choice. We could use the Ill State Police, who went to the S&W 39 in the 60's. But they more than proved the rule. Friend of mine, retired Secret Service who had served on Presidential security detail, used a revolver! He is now a SIG shooter, reason reliability!
The police didn't go to the military type side arm for 70 years, and didn't suddenly go to the Semi Auto because the military did. They went because the new generation of Semi Auto's were much more reliable.
Okeydoky, maybe with some trainning you could learn to shoot double action weapons too!
I think it is interesting, that Earnest Langston, who I had the privledge to shoot a state match with a couple of years ago stated about the Baretta he was shooting:
"I actually shoot more accurately in double action than single action, except for the time splits, I would shoot double action all the time!" As an old revolver guy, I would agree with Earnie based on my own experience. I shoot pretty good but I am not in the same class as a Langston, not trying to infer that I am!
Just as an aside, that was an IDPA match and Earnie, who took SSP with his Baretta, lost overall to an obscure unknown shooting a Springfield single stack, Rob Latham!
local police, state police, federal cops, and military do reliability comparisons on occasion. I don't know of any, that when a 1911 platform is entered they even finish.
Yes some SWAT type units are using customized 1911's. At least one of them I have heard are having proplems with their TRP's.
and the last comment I will leave to Jim Higginbotham:
"Just as in marksmanship, reliability has a lot to do with the operator (the way he handles as well as maintains his weapon bein critical). Show me a man who will accept one malfunction in 1,000 rounds and I will show you someone who does not take life seriously.
A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all!
Jim H."
Here Here Jim, and once more Happy New Year
Fred
__________________
".....esp one that got us through war after war after war after war, it starts to seem like he's either profiting for the sale of SIGs or is as well informed as he might think."
Cratz2, once again attacking my integrity because you will not, or cannot argue on merit is sure frustrating. Then you accuse me of bashing! Simply amazing.
The main reason we used the 1911 in 4 major wars is that after the first one there was no other major caliber semi Auto, after WWII the military stated it wanted to change side arms. S&W developed the model 39 in preparation. The Korean war put that on the back burner. By the way think about the timing of the commander and the light weight commander.
Next was the Viet Nam war, we were still fighting over which rifle to use, much more important than handguns.
I wish I could profit from the sale of SIG's or HK's etc.... But I don't. I only have combat experience, apparently yours is much more compelling and extensive than mine.
Crats2 just for fun lets discuss the arguement on facts and not through dispersions on each other. By the way I think there are several reliable platforms for the 45, I just don't believe it's the 1911, unless it is semi custom or custom.
---------------------------
Okeydoke states:
"no speed safeties, and no memory groove beavertail grip safeties, and the guys hadn't been taught to get a high grasp on the gun, and leave their thumbs atop the safeties while firing. A lot of GI mags are pieces of junk, too. I'll take the sometimes jamming 1911 .45, with its SA trigger pull and utterly reliable FIRST shot, over a toy of a .38, with lrn or Milatary fmj ammo, any day.
Many things can prevent a revolver from firing its first shot, and most of those things happen with military guns, in the jungle, and they happen often. They happen very frequently on dirt-sand airfields, too, with planes and choppers putting lots of dust and sand into the air, to get into the tight workings of a revolver. I have several times locked up tight a revolver, just by dropping it into a pile of limestone, a grain bin full of shelled corn or soybeans."
----------------------------
Well Okeydoke, I carried a revolver for 2 tours in the Nam. I was with the 3rd Marine Division and attached to every one of their battalions ( 3th,4th,9thMarines) and companies at one time or other, also attached to 5 th Marines and 23rd Marines. But I was with the 3rd Marines most often. also did some special work.
During that time, believe it or not, I saw just a little dust and sand, some jungle and an airfield or two.
Never had my S&W or my M14 fail to go bang, even while the 1911's and Mattey Mattels jammed. Cleaned both guns twice a day. The only weapon I ever dropped was My M14 at Parris Island while learning the Manual of Arms. Only did that once, frankly it is both literally and figuratively a painful memory! I haven't dropped a weapon since that day, in limestone or corn or soybeans!
Okeydoky, reliablility is the single primary reason police in the United States stuck with the revolver for 70 years vs the 1911 which was the only other real choice. We could use the Ill State Police, who went to the S&W 39 in the 60's. But they more than proved the rule. Friend of mine, retired Secret Service who had served on Presidential security detail, used a revolver! He is now a SIG shooter, reason reliability!
The police didn't go to the military type side arm for 70 years, and didn't suddenly go to the Semi Auto because the military did. They went because the new generation of Semi Auto's were much more reliable.
Okeydoky, maybe with some trainning you could learn to shoot double action weapons too!
I think it is interesting, that Earnest Langston, who I had the privledge to shoot a state match with a couple of years ago stated about the Baretta he was shooting:
"I actually shoot more accurately in double action than single action, except for the time splits, I would shoot double action all the time!" As an old revolver guy, I would agree with Earnie based on my own experience. I shoot pretty good but I am not in the same class as a Langston, not trying to infer that I am!
Just as an aside, that was an IDPA match and Earnie, who took SSP with his Baretta, lost overall to an obscure unknown shooting a Springfield single stack, Rob Latham!
local police, state police, federal cops, and military do reliability comparisons on occasion. I don't know of any, that when a 1911 platform is entered they even finish.
Yes some SWAT type units are using customized 1911's. At least one of them I have heard are having proplems with their TRP's.
and the last comment I will leave to Jim Higginbotham:
"Just as in marksmanship, reliability has a lot to do with the operator (the way he handles as well as maintains his weapon bein critical). Show me a man who will accept one malfunction in 1,000 rounds and I will show you someone who does not take life seriously.
A Happy and Prosperous New Year to all!
Jim H."
Here Here Jim, and once more Happy New Year
Fred
__________________
Joe Demko
Member
Most likely they simply enjoy watching you get pissed off.
chieftain
Member
No one here has seen me pissed off. These folks don't have the ability or power to piss me off or get me angry.
I am not angry just frustrated.
I had hoped for discussion and reasoned argument. I find with notable exception, name calling and impuning of my integrity and abilities. Shrink would have a field day with these folks.
Interestingly, a good reason to like anything is, "I like it and wish to carry it".
I hope when they argue the right to keep and bear arms with the anti's they use more logic and reason than has been shown here.
I guess those who can do, those who can't can't
Good luck
Fred
I am not angry just frustrated.
I had hoped for discussion and reasoned argument. I find with notable exception, name calling and impuning of my integrity and abilities. Shrink would have a field day with these folks.
Interestingly, a good reason to like anything is, "I like it and wish to carry it".
I hope when they argue the right to keep and bear arms with the anti's they use more logic and reason than has been shown here.
I guess those who can do, those who can't can't
Good luck
Fred
dd-b
Member
For target work with a semi-auto, a 1911 would be my frist choice currently.
On the other hand, I wouldn't consider a basic single-action design for carry. I don't consider it safe with a round chambered, and it's too slow otherwise.
I think some of what you may be seeing is people thinking of guns more for defense and less for target shooting. Big blocky single-action designs aren't as popular for defense.
(Yes, I know lots of people carry a full-size .45 cocked and locked and think it's "perfectly safe". Go figure.)
On the other hand, I wouldn't consider a basic single-action design for carry. I don't consider it safe with a round chambered, and it's too slow otherwise.
I think some of what you may be seeing is people thinking of guns more for defense and less for target shooting. Big blocky single-action designs aren't as popular for defense.
(Yes, I know lots of people carry a full-size .45 cocked and locked and think it's "perfectly safe". Go figure.)
Mike Irwin
Member
Maybe the same thing that's wrong with people who think that a 1911 and the .45 ACP round immediately makes A) them bullet proof, B) guarantees that any bad guy they shoot at, but not necessarily hit, will disappear in a red poof, C) attention to shot placement unnecessary, D) nearer to God's chosen few?
Obviously not everyone who owns a 1911/.45 is this way. Nor is it limited solely to the 1911/.45 combo.
But the herding instinct is strong.
Obviously not everyone who owns a 1911/.45 is this way. Nor is it limited solely to the 1911/.45 combo.
But the herding instinct is strong.
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