Which air rifle

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Few things worth mentioning from my personal point of view. Please understand that of course that doesn't make me RIGHT it only makes me right for me. That said I have a fair bit of experience and have been down the very same road you are taking................I just took the offramp MANY MILES AGO. :( :p

1-The SIG PCP's - They are known to be fairly loud. More powerful PCP rifles tend to bark a bit. They are more easily suppressed but out of the box PCPs can get pretty loud as the power increases.

2-PCP support gear - PCP's offer the ability to fire multiple shots without having to compress the air each time. This opens up capabilities like bolt actions, mag fed, semi auto etc. You must however pay the piper so to speak. Filling the air reservoir can be accomplished in several ways. A hand pump, an external tank, or a compressor. The reality is any of these of any quality is going to be a couple hundred bucks or more IMO. Hand pumping is not bad as long as you generally keep the fill pressure to around 3000psi and the reservoir size to 100-150ccs. This is NOT a difficult task with that criteria but if you are going to have a more powerful rifle you will get fewer shots and therefore need to fill more. So basically it will become a chore if you are filling multiple rifles or low shot count rifles. I have 2 Air Arms S200T's. These are low powered target guns. They are very quiet, get me about 80-100 shots per fill and are trivial to pump by hand to 170-190 bar.

3-Indoor or Back Yard Plinking or Target Shooting - I, personally feel, that the best candidate for this type of shooting is a low powered, break barrel spring rifle of higher end quality, ala the HW30/R7. It is a grab on a whim and bang out 50 shots or a whole tin if you like and then put it down. No worrying about if you pumped it up after the last session, no ancillary gear, no hammer tensions, no regulators to be set etc. etc. It's just a simple, accurate, easy to use grab and go rifle. We are all gun owners so, generally, that is what we are looking for as our power needs are likely covered by our powder burning guns.

4-Suppression/moderators - The vast amount of noise from most spring guns come from the action. If you have ever dry fired an open bolt SMG and felt and heard that big old "kachunk" of the bolt dropping you will have some idea of a spring piston air gun. I have many air rifles spring and a couple PCPS. If you keep the power down you will have no need for any kind of suppression and based on your wants I think you can easily keep the power down.

5-Noise signatures - Air guns make noise. I know it seems stupid to say this but when I was a kid I just figured they all farted out a little pffft of air and that was that. The reality is they all have a bark. As a matter of fact in most cases a super collibri type .22LR in a bolt action rifle will be quieter. That said the noise is probably far more noticeable to you then to anybody 20 to 50 yards away. It's a little bit like carrying for the first time and doing the "Walmart Walk". It will take you some time to realize that the noise isn't really bothering anybody.

6-Laws/Etiquette - If you are going to shoot outside make sure you can legally do so. There are plenty of jurisdictions where discharging an air gun is the same as discharging a firearm by law. Now will the local cops treat it like that? I dunno, best not to find out. Also if you are going to shoot outdoors it might not be the worst idea to let your neighbors know what you are doing and that play up its just an air rifle like we all had as kids. I find that being open and polite and asking for permission really generally puts folks at ease and keeps them from glancing out the window and seeing "A MAN WITH A GUN!!!!!!" and calling the SWAT team. You are just that neighbor with the toy gun.

7-Safety - Indoors or out you want a good pellet trap IMO. You don't want your shots going wild as they can go quite far and injure a person or damage property. It's also good etiquette if outside you are still able to show that you are keeping all shots on your property and safety contained. In general treat any air gun exactly the same as you would a firearm with the only exception being you have a wider range of places you can shoot it.

8-Airgun Glass - Keep in mind if scoping a break barrel/spring piston gun, the scopes need to be rated for both forward and backward recoil. Honestly I have never spent more than $150-$160ish on air gun glass and I have been very happy. UTG makes several very good AG scopes. You can go crazy but don't feel like you have to. Also I HIGHLY suggest getting and adjustable objective/parallax. You want to be able to focus down to 10 yards or so and out to 100 yards or so. I would also suggest some kind of mil dot or other drop compensating reticle, it helps if you decide to stretch out to 50+ yards. Again there is no need to break the bank here unless you want to. UTG, HAWKE, NIKON used to have some good rimfire/AG scopes etc.

Those are just a few things that came to my mind reading this thread. I think your budget is right on the mark for getting a very good air rifle. Many folks cheap out and are disappointed. I think if you stay in the Air Arms/Weihrauch/Diana tier roughly in that order you will be THRILLED with your purchase. NOTE - Weihrach makes the Beeman spring guns. R9=HW95, R7=HW30s etc. etc.

Take care, shoot safe and don't shoot your eye out kid. :D

Chris
 
HowieG said:
I'm thinking .177 or .22 makes no big difference for what I want to do. I know noise varies between brands of guns, but whether the smaller caliber is quieter, I haven't got a clue. It wouldn't surprise me. As far as PCP, I am ambivalent. The extra gear seems a bit much for a backyard gun, but I have no experience to go on.
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I think that really depends on the velocities. A .22 is easier to keep subsonic. I have mine shooting at 850 fps with good accuracy.
 
I have found .22 tends to be a little more “mellow” shooting. A tad quieter. Not enough to matter but just a hair “mellower” overall. Tough to describe.
For a target gun get the .177 ……. Smaller holes…..smaller groups. ;)
 
cslinger said:
Few things worth mentioning from my personal point of view. Please understand that of course that doesn't make me RIGHT it only makes me right for me. That said I have a fair bit of experience and have been down the very same road you are taking................I just took the offramp MANY MILES AGO. :( :p

1-The SIG PCP's - They are known to be fairly loud. More powerful PCP rifles tend to bark a bit. They are more easily suppressed but out of the box PCPs can get pretty loud as the power increases.

2-PCP support gear - PCP's offer the ability to fire multiple shots without having to compress the air each time. This opens up capabilities like bolt actions, mag fed, semi auto etc. You must however pay the piper so to speak. Filling the air reservoir can be accomplished in several ways. A hand pump, an external tank, or a compressor. The reality is any of these of any quality is going to be a couple hundred bucks or more IMO. Hand pumping is not bad as long as you generally keep the fill pressure to around 3000psi and the reservoir size to 100-150ccs. This is NOT a difficult task with that criteria but if you are going to have a more powerful rifle you will get fewer shots and therefore need to fill more. So basically it will become a chore if you are filling multiple rifles or low shot count rifles. I have 2 Air Arms S200T's. These are low powered target guns. They are very quiet, get me about 80-100 shots per fill and are trivial to pump by hand to 170-190 bar.

3-Indoor or Back Yard Plinking or Target Shooting - I, personally feel, that the best candidate for this type of shooting is a low powered, break barrel spring rifle of higher end quality, ala the HW30/R7. It is a grab on a whim and bang out 50 shots or a whole tin if you like and then put it down. No worrying about if you pumped it up after the last session, no ancillary gear, no hammer tensions, no regulators to be set etc. etc. It's just a simple, accurate, easy to use grab and go rifle. We are all gun owners so, generally, that is what we are looking for as our power needs are likely covered by our powder burning guns.

4-Suppression/moderators - The vast amount of noise from most spring guns come from the action. If you have ever dry fired an open bolt SMG and felt and heard that big old "kachunk" of the bolt dropping you will have some idea of a spring piston air gun. I have many air rifles spring and a couple PCPS. If you keep the power down you will have no need for any kind of suppression and based on your wants I think you can easily keep the power down.

5-Noise signatures - Air guns make noise. I know it seems stupid to say this but when I was a kid I just figured they all farted out a little pffft of air and that was that. The reality is they all have a bark. As a matter of fact in most cases a super collibri type .22LR in a bolt action rifle will be quieter. That said the noise is probably far more noticeable to you then to anybody 20 to 50 yards away. It's a little bit like carrying for the first time and doing the "Walmart Walk". It will take you some time to realize that the noise isn't really bothering anybody.

6-Laws/Etiquette - If you are going to shoot outside make sure you can legally do so. There are plenty of jurisdictions where discharging an air gun is the same as discharging a firearm by law. Now will the local cops treat it like that? I dunno, best not to find out. Also if you are going to shoot outdoors it might not be the worst idea to let your neighbors know what you are doing and that play up its just an air rifle like we all had as kids. I find that being open and polite and asking for permission really generally puts folks at ease and keeps them from glancing out the window and seeing "A MAN WITH A GUN!!!!!!" and calling the SWAT team. You are just that neighbor with the toy gun.

7-Safety - Indoors or out you want a good pellet trap IMO. You don't want your shots going wild as they can go quite far and injure a person or damage property. It's also good etiquette if outside you are still able to show that you are keeping all shots on your property and safety contained. In general treat any air gun exactly the same as you would a firearm with the only exception being you have a wider range of places you can shoot it.

8-Airgun Glass - Keep in mind if scoping a break barrel/spring piston gun, the scopes need to be rated for both forward and backward recoil. Honestly I have never spent more than $150-$160ish on air gun glass and I have been very happy. UTG makes several very good AG scopes. You can go crazy but don't feel like you have to. Also I HIGHLY suggest getting and adjustable objective/parallax. You want to be able to focus down to 10 yards or so and out to 100 yards or so. I would also suggest some kind of mil dot or other drop compensating reticle, it helps if you decide to stretch out to 50+ yards. Again there is no need to break the bank here unless you want to. UTG, HAWKE, NIKON used to have some good rimfire/AG scopes etc.

Those are just a few things that came to my mind reading this thread. I think your budget is right on the mark for getting a very good air rifle. Many folks cheap out and are disappointed. I think if you stay in the Air Arms/Weihrauch/Diana tier roughly in that order you will be THRILLED with your purchase. NOTE - Weihrach makes the Beeman spring guns. R9=HW95, R7=HW30s etc. etc.

Take care, shoot safe and don't shoot your eye out kid. :D

Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks for the time you put into that. And thanks for the "kid" at the end. As a 67 year old, I appreciate that. I have already come to some of the same conclusions just by inference and a little light reading.

The multi thousand dollar range PCP is a really neat piece of tech, and I would probably have one if I lived in the UK and that was all I could do. I don't live in the UK and I have a bunch of real guns, so I don't need that super air sniper rifle.

I am highly conversant in optics and am well aware of the problems involving optics and airguns. I appreciate the suggestions for brands.

I live in a VERY gun state. We are way up on the power curve when it comes to guns per person. One of the highest gun ownership states in the nation. Pellet containment is no problem. My immediate next door neighbor is a hunter. Cops live across the street, but he is a hunter too plus he sets up and sells bows. Mainly I want quiet just because I find no real need to make a bunch of noise.

I know the legal status of airgun "moderators" is kind of shaky. ATF doesn't like them and I have no strong urge to get on the ATF radar so I am going to pass on that one.

As a kid, we ran Benjamin and Crossman pneumatic pump guns and they certainly had that compressed air bark. Not loud at a distance by any means, but surprisingly loud at the gun.

Right now, I am seriously leaning towards an R7.
 
cslinger said:
I have found .22 tends to be a little more “mellow” shooting. A tad quieter. Not enough to matter but just a hair “mellower” overall. Tough to describe.
For a target gun get the .177 ……. Smaller holes…..smaller groups. ;)
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because 22 pellets weigh a bit more and leave at a lower velocity.
 
Don't know why I'm typing this. Looks like minds are made up and I'm hopelessly out of step anyway. But at 77 with a tremor and eyesight headed downhill I'm having a tremendous amount of fun shooting offhand with Crosman pump and CO2 guns. Specifically the 2100B and the 1377 as well as the CO2 2300T and 2400.
But their triggers aren't the best, take some getting used to, and don't respond well to gunsmith hacks. So trigger snobs generally look elsewhere.

For offhand practice, you don't need dime sized groups, though with the right pellet the Crosman guns will do it. If you're going to sit at a bench and shoot groups at 50 yds or need power (but you don't) then a PCP makes sense. If offhand practice is the goal, 10 yds will tell the story and you can do it in most basements with a bullet trap and a decent Crosman or Benjamin. Even scopes for these rifles are inexpensive (<$20), effective and can be had at Walmart. Don't know about you, but I'm sick of spending big bucks on shooting gear.

For your $500 budget,you could afford a small arsenal, if you aren't fussy and are willing to put up with some plastic. It's not heirloom stuff but it's fun and effective...and will probably last our lifetimes.
 
OrangePwrx9 said:
Don't know why I'm typing this. Looks like minds are made up and I'm hopelessly out of step anyway. But at 77 with a tremor and eyesight headed downhill I'm having a tremendous amount of fun shooting offhand with Crosman pump and CO2 guns. Specifically the 2100B and the 1377 as well as the CO2 2300T and 2400.
But their triggers aren't the best, take some getting used to, and don't respond well to gunsmith hacks. So trigger snobs generally look elsewhere.

For offhand practice, you don't need dime sized groups, though with the right pellet the Crosman guns will do it. If you're going to sit at a bench and shoot groups at 50 yds or need power (but you don't) then a PCP makes sense. If offhand practice is the goal, 10 yds will tell the story and you can do it in most basements with a bullet trap and a decent Crosman or Benjamin. Even scopes for these rifles are inexpensive (<$20), effective and can be had at Walmart. Don't know about you, but I'm sick of spending big bucks on shooting gear.

For your $500 budget,you could afford a small arsenal, if you aren't fussy and are willing to put up with some plastic. It's not heirloom stuff but it's fun and effective...and will probably last our lifetimes.
Click to expand...

I liked Crosman back in the day. Back in the day, it was Crosman, Benjamin, and Sheridan. They were all fine. Crosman now isn't the Crosman then of course. It changed hands along the way and also bought Benjamin/Sheridan. I don't know if they are all right now or not to tell the truth. Anyway, I thought about a new Benjamin pump, and that is still an option if I feel like I still want to pump all those times. CO2 is out. I don't like constantly buying cartridges when air is free. Anyway, can't get those global warming folks upset.
 
On the off chance you end up with a Benjamin 397 or 322, save yourself some trouble and put a Williams peep sight on it. Makes the gun an excellent shooter, even as a ghost ring.

You might have to file down that hump on the butt stock too in order to use iron sights...but try it first.
 
OrangePwrx9 said:
On the off chance you end up with a Benjamin 397 or 322, save yourself some trouble and put a Williams peep sight on it. Makes the gun an excellent shooter, even as a ghost ring.

You might have to file down that hump on the butt stock too in order to use iron sights...but try it first.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have had that problem before. Nothing like paying for a gun and then having to fit it to yourself.
 
I don’t know if you were specifically addressing the 392 as far as pellet but across the board I have been happiest with H&N stuff for years. Field Target Trophy’s usually. Now my 2 Air Arms S200Ts prefer either Air Arms Diabolo Fields (which also have proven a good all a rounder) or H&N Finale Match Heavy’s.

If I was limited to a single brand it would be H&N for me. LOTS of folks love JSB stuff but for me I have found it middling in most cases. Not bad just not as good as H&N for me.
 
cslinger said:
I don’t know if you were specifically addressing the 392 as far as pellet but across the board I have been happiest with H&N stuff for years. Field Target Trophy’s usually. Now my 2 Air Arms S200Ts prefer either Air Arms Diabolo Fields (which also have proven a good all a rounder) or H&N Finale Match Heavy’s.

If I was limited to a single brand it would be H&N for me. LOTS of folks love JSB stuff but for me I have found it middling in most cases. Not bad just not as good as H&N for me.
Click to expand...

H&N. Got it. Thanks.
 
Thought I would add a couple more groups I shot today with the HW30s. I have ........ well lets just say I have between say 2 and 500 firearms and air guns ( :oops: its not a problem if you ignore it!!! :rofl:) and these little HW30s rifles are far and away some of my absolute favorite projectile relocators that I own air or powder.
rVHoJaXh.jpg

wQQODtSh.jpg
 
cslinger said:
Thought I would add a couple more groups I shot today with the HW30s. I have ........ well lets just say I have between say 2 and 500 firearms and air guns ( :oops: its not a problem if you ignore it!!! :rofl:) and these little HW30s rifles are far and away some of my absolute favorite projectile relocators that I own air or powder.
View attachment 1053833

View attachment 1053834
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And they are actually good looking. A lot of airguns these days look like they were on a scifi movie.
 
If you haven't bought an R7 yet look into the RWS Model 48 or 52 (fancier stock), IF you can find one for sale.
I bought an early Model 48 (.177) over 25 years ago. It shoots hard, it's very accurate, and has bagged many small game out to 30 yds with factory sights. But it is heavy (which is a plus for me). I've considered buying a .22 version of either but i waited to long. .22s are getting harder to find now.

IMG_20181229_090807994~3.jpg
 
cslinger said:
Also my DB test was indoors.
Order from Krale
Weihrauch HW30 S (krale.shop)
They are in the Netherlands and it will cost about 50-60 bucks to ship and will be at your door faster then if you ordered domestically (I KID YOU NOT) and will be cheaper all around.
They are currently out of stock but they get stock quickly and often.
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I am beginning to wonder about that fast delivery. I ordered a rifle, in stock Sunday, got an invoice, my credit card shows paid, sent copy of drivers license via the link when I ordered, then got email the next day, so sent it again. The order is still showing as processing 3 days later, and I emailed asking about shipment status, and never got a reply.
 
jkingrph said:
I am beginning to wonder about that fast delivery. I ordered a rifle, in stock Sunday, got an invoice, my credit card shows paid, sent copy of drivers license via the link when I ordered, then got email the next day, so sent it again. The order is still showing as processing 3 days later, and I emailed asking about shipment status, and never got a reply.
Click to expand...

That sucks seems like you “won the lottery” as experiences from Krale are pretty universally first rate. Keep in mind the time difference with them as far as communication goes. I emailed a question and I think it was the following night I got a reply.

I am a fairly impatient “I WANT IT NOW!!!” only child so this may fall on deaf ears and understandably so but just keep in mind even if delayed your rifle will be here before you know it and your buying experience will long be overshadowed by your shooting joy.

Now please be aware after my encouraging words you are most definitely getting a broken or in some way lemon of a rifle and I apologize for cursing you. :).
 
mope540 said:
If you haven't bought an R7 yet look into the RWS Model 48 or 52 (fancier stock), IF you can find one for sale.
I bought an early Model 48 (.177) over 25 years ago. It shoots hard, it's very accurate, and has bagged many small game out to 30 yds with factory sights. But it is heavy (which is a plus for me). I've considered buying a .22 version of either but i waited to long. .22s are getting harder to find now.

View attachment 1054750
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll take a look. No, I haven't bought anything yet. Right now is the winter hunting season for me. I have a Javelina license that is good until March plus coyotes.
 
The problem such as it is a problem with spring guns is that they make an awful and jarring thwang or thwack when the piston slams to a stop. They are also heavy and long. The other issue is that, if scoped, the scope is on the spring tube and the barrel may or may not return to the same exact position. At 10 to maybe 15 yards that might work but beyond that the lack of accuracy is a problem for me trying to eliminate HOSPs. Then to top it off, they beat the excrement out of your scope with that jarring double recoil. My two spring rifle favs, a Stoeger X20 in .177 (13 fpe) and a .22 Crosman Vantage (15 fpe):

IMG-0753.jpg

So then, my favorite pumper, the Crosman 392 kind of hard to find sometimes and it does not have a grooved receiver so all sorts of odd contraptions exist to mount a scope. And there is the cool new toy, the Crosman 362, with tons of new mods to tinker with. My 392 (16 fpe with some mods) and you can see the X20 beside it for scale:

IMG-0728.jpg

IMG-5747.jpg

Then there are the PCPs. Well, you have to have an air source too, do not forget that. Kind of been around a while but probably still, IMO, the best value is the Benjamin Marauder (.25 cal about 42 fpe out of the box and can go higher) and still mostly USA sourced:

IMG-3789.jpg

IMG-3796.jpg

There is always something like this and CCI Quiet (45 fpe):

IMG-2192.jpg

3C
 
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I wanted to chime in. As I do not have a pcp. And low decibels are a key for me too. The quietest airgun I have had the pleasure of firing is my grandfather handed down gecado break barrel in .177. It's the older version of the Diana 25. I am fixing to pull the trigger on a new piston assembly over at JG. On a side note. I was shooting with my boy a while back and got side tracked in conversation. I forgot to install the pellet and clicked the barrel back up( this is a ruger airhawk elite in .177) needless to say when I drew on that target and fired, it was louder than a .22 and made my youngun fart his pants. We both laughed it off. Whoopsies.
 
IMHO if you want something as close to a firearm as you can get you want PCP, CO2, or pump. A spring gun has a different impulse then anything else.

I would say if you are looking for back yard/basement/inside garage friendly look to Fusion or a QB78 or clones, there are many....really these two are the same thing. Fusion will be very quiet, mine is very quiet, the QB not too bad unless you hot rod it, but people around you will know. For pcp if irons are not a big deal order a euro maximus from crosman, quiet, tons of shots on a fill with its low power, the low power is great for inside.

 
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