Which JHP. Does it really matter?

[Manson]

I have read countless threads and dozens of articles on various types of self defense ammo. Some stand alone tests, others comparisons. The results are a slight edge to one brand or another. Or someone suggests their favorite brand and quotes which law enforcement department is using them.

My question is this. Does it really matter. Is a bullet from one manufacturer so much better in overall performance than another that we should all be using them. Is a JHP from Remington likely to penetrate, or expand so much less than another? Is Gold Dot so far superior that I should seek it out and ignore the rest? Two rounds from different company's that are the same weight and fired from the same weapon.

I'm not talking about small difference's in expansion. In real life situations is anyone going to wish that a well placed shot had been a Corbon rather than brand x?

 

[CoRoMo]

I don't get wrapped up in end results/terminal ballistics until I have a handful of options that FUNCTION acceptably. How good is the fastest and most well bonded projectile if it stops up with any frequency at all?

That being said, there are some fascinating advances in bullet construction these days and there are very few makes/models of ammunition, that are specifically designed for personal defense, that would be 'poor choices'.

 

[dom1104]

If you gotta buy ammo anyway, buy the best you can find.

If you already got it, dont "upgrade" unless you just feel like it.

Dont get hung up over it.

The chance of ever having to shoot someone is very VERY low.

The chance of having to shoot someone, and THEN the bullet type you chose making the difference between your life and death...

is probably close to zero.

 

[Ala Dan]

Personally, I don't think it really matters; as long as you get good penetration,
and rapid expansion. Placing your shot to a vital area, disabling your opponent
is MUCH more important~! Any shot that fails to do this, could result in your
opponent taking YOU out of any gun battle~!

 

[bigfatdave]

WAY too much focus on the arrow, not enough on the archer

"Premium" and "Duty" HP designs are formulated to pass the FBI test. Beyond the FBI test, differences are minor.
Buy a bunch of whatever types you know works in your defensive weaponry

 

[Manson]

Thank you for your comments. I have always thought that a well placed shot is the most important thing and get to the range two or three times a month. One of the things I do while there is run one or two mags of my carry ammo through my carry gun. I do this at least once a month then practice ammo for whatever other firearms I brought.

All the guns that I own that I would carry. Glock 27, 30 or a Sig or H&K eat everything. That's what got me thinking. Today at my local Wal-Marts I bought targets and needed fresh JHP. All they had was Remington. But the price was right. Not much more for a box of 50 than my usual brand cost for 20. My LGS was 15 minutes away.

Would you buy the Remington's? Have I turned into some sort of ammo fan boy? I don't think it makes enough difference to matter. Would you drive the 15 minutes.

 

[bigfatdave]

location
depth
width

In that order

Would you buy the Remingtons?

maybe, but I generally stock up at shows or online.
What does brassfetcher have on the remington load? How does it perform compared to other duty loadings from the big manufacturers?

 

[hogrdr]

i don't think it matters that much because any of them will or won't open under certain circumstance, i carry .45 ball.....ok, flame away.

 

[Manson]

hogdr. No flames here. I think you are correct. I am in fact over thinking it a little. And thanks to dave I spent a few minutes on brassfetcher. Comparing say Remington to Federal one delivers a bit more expansion and the other more velocity. So the commonly held belief that it's all about placement is not only true but could save me money and a fifteen minute drive.

 

[NG VI]

The only issue i have with Brassfetcher is that they average the expanded diameter of bullets, which doesn't allow you to see which bullets have the best extreme diameter. The two JHPs I consider 'best' are the Federal HST and Winchester Ranger-T, both of them work best in the heavyweights for each caliber, and both of them are designed in such a way that they get six petals that expand very far from the core of the bullet, but there is some open space between each petal. That makes the average recovered diameter appear to be identical to every other JHP, and makes it appear that there is no difference in performance, while failing to show that those two bullets actually cause extremely wide wounds in three different points.

I think the 9mm versions get an average diameter of about .65", but the HST actually generally measures about .75" or even slightly wider measuring from point to point, across each of the three opposing pairs of petals.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I have read countless threads and dozens of articles on various types of self defense ammo. Some stand alone tests, others comparisons. The results are a slight edge to one brand or another. Or someone suggests their favorite brand and quotes which law enforcement department is using them.

My question is this. Does it really matter. Is a bullet from one manufacturer so much better in overall performance than another that we should all be using them. Is a JHP from Remington likely to penetrate, or expand so much less than another? Is Gold Dot so far superior that I should seek it out and ignore the rest? Two rounds from different company's that are the same weight and fired from the same weapon.

I'm not talking about small difference's in expansion. In real life situations is anyone going to wish that a well placed shot had been a Corbon rather than brand x?

They've been talking/cogitating on this like forever. And it'll go on until lasers are on your hip. The information is there were you to have the incentive to look.

 

[NG VI]

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.45ACP

All the information you could ever want about terminal ballistic performance of various loads and calibers.

You'll notice that comparing like-generation bullets in different calibers, that there is little difference between them.

 

[Ky Larry]

A few years ago, I bought a case of .45 ACP 230gr JHP Winchester White Box on clearance at Wally World.So far, it's functioned perfectly and is very accurate. It is not the latest-greatest wonder round on the market but I have no concern carrying it in my Kimber for SD. Placement and reliablity are what matters most to me.

 

[B!ngo]

If you gotta buy ammo anyway, buy the best you can find.

If you already got it, dont "upgrade" unless you just feel like it.

Dont get hung up over it.

The chance of ever having to shoot someone is very VERY low.

The chance of having to shoot someone, and THEN the bullet type you chose making the difference between your life and death...

is probably close to zero.

Yep, agree with the post below. As an (ex-) engineer, it's important to understand which terms in an equation are really relevant and which, regardless of their value, have little effect on the result.
Ammo configuration is one of those small terms. In my view, the biggies are (the usual controversy is about to ensue):
1. Rounds in a mag (except in states like mine (CA) where this is approximately a constant)
2. Shooter skill/shot placement
3. Caliber/energy or some such
tied with
4. Ammo design/configuration (the OP's question)
5. Reliability of the gun/ammo configuration
IMHO
B

 

[BSA1]

I agree that the most important factors in order are relibility and shot placement i disagree with the comment "I'm not talking about small difference's in expansion." For me if I am going to the extra cost of buying JHP expansion is a important factor. My real life experience has taught me that all JHP's are not created equal. Some fail to expand when the nose is filled with material from the clothing and act as FMJ's. Well if that is the case I would prefer FMJ's for the extra relibility for feeding.

This is a subject that can only be truly solved on the range with your gun shooting the loads of your choice into different types of test media.

 

[Kachok]

For handgun bullets I always like bullets that expand quick and retain weight, fragmentation as handgun speeds is a waste of energy since they essentualy smear along the inside of the wound canal without expanding it by any noticable amount, this however is not true of high speed rifle cartrages. According to the FBI's ballistic recourses the best bullets will always expand quickly even after passing through common barriers and penatrate to a minimum of 12" with 14-16" being the ideal. Bullets such as the old 115gr silvertips can be less effective then FMJ bullets because they came apart very quicly and often failed to pass through the targets vitals which is the most important terminal function of a bullet. So in short yes it does matter which one, stick to the bullets that are proven to expand reliably and won't come apart dumping their energy into the targets fat/muscle tissue. I won't get into a pissing match about which one is the best, but I think you will find most LE agancies like Gold Dots, Gold Sabers, hydroshocks, PDX1 and Ranger SXT. I personaly carry 124gr PDX1s in my CCW.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I just use cheap Remington JHPs you can buy in bulk. They are yet to jam and fire every time. I don't shoot people on a regular basis so I have no clue what works.

 

[Spdracr39]

Well I don't know how many people break into your house wearing 4 layers of denim but the plastic inserts can't hurt. I would never carry ball ammo because of the risk associated with shooting through the perp and injuring/killing a bystander or family member. If I did win the lawsuit from the perps family I would surely lose the one from the bystander that was injured or killed due to my ammo choice.

 

[JohnBiltz]

I don't think there is much difference among the top brands, I'd use any with confidence after testing them in my gun. Which is where my brand loyalty comes in. Once I've tested one and satisfied my self it is reliable its expensive to do that again. So once I've found one I tend to stick with that one.

 

[Pyro]

Find one you can afford and reliably function in your gun.

 

[orionengnr]

Functional reliability is paramount.
Many people say that you should put 200-300 trouble-free rounds of your chosen carry ammo before trusting it.

That is an expensive proposition, and not too many of us can afford to change ammo frequently and start over again.

If I were starting fresh, I would start with a box of HST, and if it functions well, I'd run a bunch more through my carry gun.

But I still have a bunch of Ranger and DPX, so until that's all gone, I'm sticking with it.

 

[willypete]

There's a point of diminishing returns. You can spend $3 a round on some ammo, but is it really worth it? Maybe to some people. While I do prefer to carry premium HP ammo for self defense (Barnes XPB-loaded rounds are my favorite), sometimes that gets to be too pricey. Most of the "premium" stuff performs within a certain envelope, with minor variations among manufacturers. As long as you use a good design that's been proven in your gun, you should be good to go.

So to answer your question: sort of, but not really.

 

[Pyro]

Functional reliability is paramount.
Many people say that you should put 200-300 trouble-free rounds of your chosen carry ammo before trusting it. That is an expensive proposition, and not too many of us can afford to change ammo frequently and start over again.

My gun usually tells me pretty quick if it doesn't like the ammo I'm feeding it.

 

[Ben86]

My question is this. Does it really matter.

Question marks matter.

If you stick with premium ammo from a big name manufacturer it's hard to go wrong. Try not to buy the 20 round chump boxes though. Look for 50 round LE contract surplus (mostly on the internet).

I like Gold Dots, Winchester PDX1, and most recently Federal HST. I can't wait to get some HST in.

More important is making sure the ammunition of choice works in your gun of choice.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I bought a half dozen boxes of the +P+ Federal JHP cheaper than dirt is selling. I shot a box of it last weekend. It utterly shredded a wet log, the FMJ went through it. That is good enough for me.