Why all the ultra short AR barrels?

[mcb]

Like all things AR-15: Fad.

35W

At what point does a "fad" become a trend? There are likely millions of legal AR-Pistols and SBR out there, chambered in a variety of cartridges, being used for a variety of tasks. It might have started as a fad but after nearly a decade of the AR pistol brace being in production now by several companies and the wider acceptance of jumping through the NFA hoops for SBRs I think they are booth well beyond the fad stage. If you do the AR parts market right now pistol/SBR length barrels are harder to source that 16+ inch barrels. Short of a change in law the AR-pistol/SBR is still on an upward trend in popularity and variety.

 

[Jim Watson]

I fear you are going to get that change in the law (Regulation, interpretation, definition, etc .) The feds were shouted down in the waning years of the Last Republican Administration, but they will be back.

 

[mcb]

I fear you are going to get that change in the law (Regulation, interpretation, definition, etc .) The feds were shouted down in the waning years of the Last Republican Administration, but they will be back.

If the ATF reinterpreted my brace into an illegal object I will simply jump through the NFA hoops too make it a SBR or go back to the bare pistol tube. The short suppressed AR is a very useful utilitarian configuration for me.

But that potential restriction is in the future, if it comes at all, and I already have my contingencies ready so until then I will use and enjoy my braced pistol AR.

 

[GBExpat]

Why all the ultra short AR barrels?

In many cases I suspect that it simply a(nother) instance of, "Boys will be Boys.

 

[Demi-human]

In many cases I suspect that it simply a(nother) instance of, "Boys will be Boys.

Well, I try to be, but more and more it seems nobody wants me to be, except when they need me to be...
And then, only at that time it is practical.

 

[35 Whelen]

@Phaedrus/69, I believe, nailed it. Shooters see the military using these and then action movies with these firearms then imagine a personal need for themselves.

To me these type firearms have very specialized, non-civilian uses and for general use are wholly impractical.

35W

 

[jbmillard]

@Phaedrus/69, I believe, nailed it. Shooters see the military using these and then action movies with these firearms then imagine a personal need for themselves.

To me these type firearms have very specialized, non-civilian uses and for general use are wholly impractical.

35W

Have you ever shot one? I'm not a big AR pistol fan I would rather go the SBR route because I like have the ability to put a stock or vertical fore grip on my guns. As for wholly impractical, not for me. They are fast, easy to suppress (just hang a 6-8" suppressor off of a 16" barrel and see how long you can shoot it of hand), little/no muzzle flash (when suppressed) and light. For a long time, I said that I would never own or suppress a short barreled 5.56 AR, because I didn't think it was worth it, I was wrong. It really is to me. The only downside is cleaning it.

What are the very specialized, non-civilian uses that you think they are good for? Do they involve shooting bad guys? What makes you think that doesn't relate to self defense? What I think is funny is that you could have said the same thing about longer barrel AR-15s years ago ("only useful to the military..."). Now they are used in hunting, sport shooting, competition, etc. There are even AR pattern shotguns. I would urge people to be careful when they start thinking that because they can't think of a use for it, then there isn't any. Unless you're the smartest guy in the room, you probably haven't thought of everything.

On a side not, it's amazing to me that you would lump millions of shooters into a class of easily influenced idiots that only do things because they saw it in a movie. For me, if millions of people are doing something firearm related, it makes me question my own biases and seek to understand why they are doing it.

 

[jmr40]

I can only speak for myself. For me it is a loophole in the law that makes it easier for me to own something close to a SBR. I've never understood the logic behind why a 14" barrel is illegal on a rifle, but we have sub 2" barrels on handguns and closer to 4" is the most common length.

I bought one of the Ruger AR pistols with a 10" barrel. I would have preferred 12"-14", but 10" is what I have and it works better than I anticipated. The "brace" is for all practical purposes just a standard stock that will not quite extend to the full length. Which isn't a huge problem for me. I don't even think of it as a brace.

In my mind I have a SBR with a barrel just a bit shorter than I'd prefer. With a 1-4X scope on mine it is plenty accurate. I can hit 6" steel plates at the 300 yard line regularly, but don't ever envision needing to shoot that far. I'm not concerned about the loss of velocity. I'd like a suppressor, and one may be in the future, but for now I'm not going to jump through the hoops and pay the price.

I've anticipated the possibility of the legalities changing. I've already bought another upper with a 16" barrel and a full length stock. In a matter of minutes I can convert it from a pistol to a rifle if necessary. Or simply remove the brace.

To me these type firearms have very specialized, non-civilian uses and for general use are wholly impractical.

I have no plans for this as anything but a SD firearm that can be kept discretely in a compact place that would be impossible with a 16" barreled rifle. I can use a conventional handgun for this, but an AR pistol, especially one with an arm brace bridges the gap between a carbine and a handgun. Seems pretty practical to me.

 

[35 Whelen]

Have you ever shot one? I'm not a big AR pistol fan I would rather go the SBR route because I like have the ability to put a stock or vertical fore grip on my guns. As for wholly impractical, not for me. They are fast, easy to suppress (just hang a 6-8" suppressor off of a 16" barrel and see how long you can shoot it of hand), little/no muzzle flash (when suppressed) and light. For a long time, I said that I would never own or suppress a short barreled 5.56 AR, because I didn't think it was worth it, I was wrong. It really is to me. The only downside is cleaning it.

No, I've never fired one. Back when I had to shoot at public ranges I happened to be at the bench next to a gentleman who was shooting a 10" Contender in .223. It was deafening. And I don't want a piece of equipment (suppressor)hanging off the end of a firearm that is there by permission of, and well documented by, a branch of our government. So if I understand correctly an AR pistol has to be about 26" in total length, not counting a muzzle device, which would add 6-8" according to your information. So by the time you add a suppressor, you're up to minimum 32", the same length as my AR carbine. So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as though an AR pistol is a quieter, more difficult to shoot AR with reduced ballistics.

What are the very specialized, non-civilian uses that you think they are good for? Do they involve shooting bad guys? What makes you think that doesn't relate to self defense?

I haven't the slightest idea. I'm the one who sees no practical use for a pistol that weighs 4.5 lbs.

It's amazing to me that you would lump millions of shooters into a class of easily influenced idiots that only do things because they saw it in a movie. For me, if millions of people are doing something firearm related, it makes me question my own biases and seek to understand why they are doing it.

I never said anything about easily influenced idiots. Freudian Slip perhaps?

35W

 

[CraigC]

It’s just the predominant gun fad of the day. They serve no real purpose

just like a decade ago you were a gun nobody if you didn’t have a $3000 poorly running 1911. Today you are a gun nobody if you don’t have a questionably legal sbr ish AR that the BATFE may redefine into illegally again at any given time

Yeah, I used to be closed-minded too. Then pistol braces came into being and I could have something very near an SBR without the tax stamp. So I got one and it completely changed my tune. I found that a braced 8.5" .300Blk with a suppressor was very close to the overall length of a 16" carbine without one. Makes for a very handy and very practical package. I also found that the shorter barrel yielded nearly all the performance you're going to get out of the cartridge and with subs, it makes no difference.

It's comical that folks are just fine with the "downgrade" from 20" rifles to 16" carbines but go below that and it's suddenly a "fad" or "groupthink". For years a 14" .223 Contender was thought to be a fantastic 400yd varmint rig but somehow a 10" is just a useless toy??? I got away from the conventional wisdom that is often just whining about lost velocity and started considering a short 5.56. One has to realize that not every AR has to be able to readily reach out to 400yds. That a 5.56 out of a 10.5" barrel is still mighty effective. So when @Skylerbone posted a link to a 10.5" barrel on sale, I jumped on it. I have found that what I put together is a near perfect AR for home defense and really for any general purpose use. It's handy and moves in and out of a vehicle with ease. Something you can't do with a 16" carbine. It will also go mighty fine with the suppressor I currently have in NFA jail. It might be slightly less effective but it's a whole lot more useful.

 

[Reloadron]

Why all the ultra short AR barrels?

I figure it this way. Obviously there is a demand and enough demand to make marketing them worth it. I see rifles, all rifles and I guess all handguns being much like trucks, cars and other things we gravitate towards. I have seen some AR types I thought they were just plain butt ugly. Matter of fact I have seen some AR rifles and trucks that I felt were so ugly that if my dogs were that ugly I would shave their butts and walk them backwards. However, that is just my taste in a rifle or truck.

Seriously I simply have no use for a short barrel rifle. Not at all practical in my home for home defense as if I send a bullet through a wall I would feel bad about shooting a neighbor. I have much, much better choices for home defense I am comfortable with. My AR guns are about as basic as they come as can be seen below.



Two Colt SP1 guns, a Colt Sporter, a Colt Target, a mix master and the last on the right a AR10(T) match flavor. All pretty basic reflecting my taste and the shortest barrels are 20".

That said the family of short barrel rifles have their use and place. Gee, ain't America great as we can extend our personal taste beyond cars and trucks to rifles. We can get a gun well suited for our intended application and a gun which suits our taste. That even applies to ugly guns. Anyway why all the ultra short barreled rifles? Because they serve a purpose for many and there is a demand for them.

Ron

 

[IdaD]

@Phaedrus/69, I believe, nailed it. Shooters see the military using these and then action movies with these firearms then imagine a personal need for themselves.

To me these type firearms have very specialized, non-civilian uses and for general use are wholly impractical.

35W

A short barrel AR is a lot better for general home defense than a handgun, imo. That's a practical civilian use. I prefer a longer barrel and that's what I have, mostly because I think it's a more versatile package, but that's just my preference. 16" strikes me as a really good balance between short and handy at closer ranges with pretty good ballistics (including for up to medium game in a pinch) and better performance at longer ranges. More clarity on the legal issues is a nice side benefit. None of these things renders a short barrel AR wholly impractical for civilian use, though.

 

[BreechFace]

No, I've never fired one. Back when I had to shoot at public ranges I happened to be at the bench next to a gentleman who was shooting a 10" Contender in .223. It was deafening. And I don't want a piece of equipment (suppressor)hanging off the end of a firearm that is there by permission of, and well documented by, a branch of our government. So if I understand correctly an AR pistol has to be about 26" in total length, not counting a muzzle device, which would add 6-8" according to your information. So by the time you add a suppressor, you're up to minimum 32", the same length as my AR carbine. So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as though an AR pistol is a quieter, more difficult to shoot AR with reduced ballistics.

Go shoot a suppressed 9" 300 Blackout with as suppressor and get back to me on how it isn't worth it.

I would take a the setup above for civilian SD over a 16" standard carbine any day.

I don't know why it would be "more difficult to shoot," mine is not; compact and quiet makes for a much more enjoyable experience in my book. But I guess if one thinks muzzle blast makes it easier to shoot than more power to them.

 

[mcb]

No, I've never fired one. Back when I had to shoot at public ranges I happened to be at the bench next to a gentleman who was shooting a 10" Contender in .223. It was deafening. And I don't want a piece of equipment (suppressor)hanging off the end of a firearm that is there by permission of, and well documented by, a branch of our government. So if I understand correctly an AR pistol has to be about 26" in total length, not counting a muzzle device, which would add 6-8" according to your information. So by the time you add a suppressor, you're up to minimum 32", the same length as my AR carbine. So correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as though an AR pistol is a quieter, more difficult to shoot AR with reduced ballistics.



I haven't the slightest idea. I'm the one who sees no practical use for a pistol that weighs 4.5 lbs.



I never said anything about easily influenced idiots. Freudian Slip perhaps?

35W

There is no minimum length barrel or overall length for an AR pistol.



This is a perfectly legal AR pistol and it would still be legal with an even shorter barrel. The 26" in minimum length has more to due with guns classified as "firearms" neither a rifle, pistol or shotgun, such as a TAC-14 or Shockwaves.

Your objection to suppressors and NFA registration is sort of laughable. If you have bought firearms on a 4473 then there is government record you are gun owner, despite the fact they are not suppose to keep those, there is a records, you are at least in the records or the stores bound book that become a government record when and if the store closes.

Don't think of it as a 4.5 pound pistol. Think of it as a 4.5 pound pistol that shoots nearly as good as a rifle.

And just because this thread needs this video.


I would love to chronograph this gun.

 

[rbernie]

This is a perfectly legal AR pistol and it would still be legal with an even shorter barrel.

How do I get this?!

 

[BreechFace]

Seriously I simply have no use for a short barrel rifle. Not at all practical in my home for home defense as if I send a bullet through a wall I would feel bad about shooting a neighbor. I have much, much better choices for home defense I am comfortable with.

What firearm and ammo do you choose for home defense?

You are parroting a common misconception on AR's. Bullet choice is paramount with any home defense weapon choice.

Below is a 300 Blackout 110gr TacTX Barnes after going through 12" of ballistic gel, stopped in the first sheet of drywall, (62gr 556 had similar results).

LINK: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/

 

[Hog huntin Harry]

Today you are a gun nobody if you don’t have a questionably legal sbr ish AR that the BATFE may redefine into illegally again at any given time

In my neck of the woods if you don't have a Stainless steel & polymer bolt gun chambered in cartridges between .243 and .284 caliber, you are nobody.

 

[Reloadron]

What firearm and ammo do you choose for home defense?

You are parroting a common misconception on AR's. Bullet choice is paramount with any home defense weapon choice.

Below is a 300 Blackout 110gr TacTX Barnes after going through 12" of ballistic gel, stopped in the first sheet of drywall, (62gr 556 had similar results).

LINK: https://www.pewpewtactical.com/home-defense-overpenetration/

View attachment 966452

OK in all fairness you have a good and valid point. Home defense is the same gun I carry.


Yes, I could use a good choice of bullet and worry less about shooting a neighbor. I do have some .223 designed for exactly what you are getting at. I am not parroting anyone in that I simply do not feel a need for a loaded AR beside my bed and if I ever get to that feeling my but is out of here because I am not going to devote countless hours to worrying about home invasion. A short barrel rifle is just fine if someone feels the need, personally I don't feel any need. My view is based on my house and my home layout as well as my surroundings. I simply do not feel a need for any more than what I am currently comfortable with.

Ron

 

[DAP90]

What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to get a suppressor for your AR pistol, why not get the stamp for an SBR too? I know little about NFA rules, but I’d rather have a real stock personally and the extra stamp wouldn’t dissuade me once I’d committed to the one for the suppressor.

My friend lives in a place where he can’t have an AR rifle, but due to a poorly written law some kinds of AR pistols are ok, so I understand why he didn't.

 

[BreechFace]

What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to get a suppressor for your AR pistol, why not get the stamp for an SBR too? I know little about NFA rules, but I’d rather have a real stock personally and the extra stamp wouldn’t dissuade me once I’d committed to the one for the suppressor.

My friend lives in a place where he can’t have an AR rifle, but due to a poorly written law some kinds of AR pistols are ok.

I don't like SBR rules when traveling out of state as well as it prevents me from concealing it in a vehicle (my pistol AR falls under my CCW guidelines in my state), being my main reasons.

Another tertiary reason is it's another $200 as well.

 

[jbmillard]

What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to get a suppressor for your AR pistol, why not get the stamp for an SBR too? I know little about NFA rules, but I’d rather have a real stock personally and the extra stamp wouldn’t dissuade me once I’d committed to the one for the suppressor.

This is my thinking as well. That’s why I went the SBR route. To each his own.

 

[CraigC]

IMHO, they're not a "fad" because the military is using them. They're simply more popular because of braces. Lots of people want an SBR but don't want the hassle of NFA gear. Suppressors can be moved around from gun to gun. An SBR lower is more limiting.

What I don’t understand is, if you’re going to get a suppressor for your AR pistol, why not get the stamp for an SBR too? I know little about NFA rules, but I’d rather have a real stock personally and the extra stamp wouldn’t dissuade me once I’d committed to the one for the suppressor.

My friend lives in a place where he can’t have an AR rifle, but due to a poorly written law some kinds of AR pistols are ok.

You have to gain permission from the ATF to travel out of state with an SBR. Not so with suppressors. Braces allow the freedom to play around with various lowers. I don't have any SBR's but have three AR pistol lowers to utilize.

 

[FAS1]

I understand those that want a short package in a rifle caliber, but for me the SOLGW 13.7" with a pinned and welded NOX flash hider (16" total barrel length) is perfect for me. No stinkin' tax stamps or wishy washy ATF rule changes!

 

[Jim Watson]

You have to gain permission from the ATF to travel out of state with an SBR.

Yes, one of our USPSA PCC shooters was grumbling about that last week.
This is a problem a lot of SBR owners do not encounter because they do not travel to matches.
USPSA and IDPA do not allow braceguns in PCC Division.

 

[CraigC]

I have an issue with it because I'm 30mins from both Alabama and Mississippi. Do a lot of traveling, shopping and have kinfolk and hunting opportunities in both states. I've also kinda made it a habit of hunting in Texas every year.