Why are Americans So angry? (speech-long)

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xd9fan

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Part one

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
Before the U.S. House of Representatives

June 29, 2006

Why Are Americans So Angry?

I have been involved in politics for over 30 years and have never seen the American people so angry. It’s not unusual to sense a modest amount of outrage, but it seems the anger today is unusually intense and quite possibly worse than ever. It’s not easily explained, but I have some thoughts on this matter. Generally, anger and frustration among people are related to economic conditions; bread and butter issues. Yet today, according to government statistics, things are going well. We have low unemployment, low inflation, more homeowners than ever before, and abundant leisure with abundant luxuries. Even the poor have cell phones, televisions, and computers. Public school is free, and anyone can get free medical care at any emergency room in the country. Almost all taxes are paid by the top 50% of income earners. The lower 50% pay essentially no income taxes, yet general dissatisfaction and anger are commonplace. The old slogan “It’s the economy, stupid,” just doesn’t seem to explain things

Some say it’s the war, yet we’ve lived with war throughout the 20th century. The bigger they were the more we pulled together. And the current war, by comparison, has fewer American casualties than the rest. So it can’t just be the war itself.

People complain about corruption, but what’s new about government corruption? In the 19th century we had railroad scandals; in the 20th century we endured the Teapot Dome scandal, Watergate, Koreagate, and many others without too much anger and resentment. Yet today it seems anger is pervasive and worse than we’ve experienced in the past.

Could it be that war, vague yet persistent economic uncertainty, corruption, and the immigration problem all contribute to the anger we feel in America? Perhaps, but it’s almost as though people aren’t exactly sure why they are so uneasy. They only know that they’ve had it and aren’t going to put up with it anymore.

High gasoline prices make a lot of people angry, though there is little understanding of how deficits, inflation, and war in the Middle East all contribute to these higher prices.

Generally speaking, there are two controlling forces that determine the nature of government: the people’s concern for their economic self interests; and the philosophy of those who hold positions of power and influence in any particular government. Under Soviet Communism the workers believed their economic best interests were being served, while a few dedicated theoreticians placed themselves in positions of power. Likewise, the intellectual leaders of the American Revolution were few, but rallied the colonists to risk all to overthrow a tyrannical king.

Since there’s never a perfect understanding between these two forces, the people and the philosophical leaders, and because the motivations of the intellectual leaders vary greatly, any transition from one system of government to another is unpredictable. The communist takeover by Lenin was violent and costly; the demise of communism and the acceptance of a relatively open system in the former Soviet Union occurred in a miraculous manner. Both systems had intellectual underpinnings.

In the United States over the last century we have witnessed the coming and going of various intellectual influences by proponents of the free market, Keynesian welfarism, varieties of socialism, and supply-side economics. In foreign policy we’ve seen a transition from the founder’s vision of non-intervention in the affairs of others to internationalism, unilateral nation building, and policing the world. We now have in place a policy, driven by determined neo-conservatives, to promote American “goodness” and democracy throughout the world by military force-- with particular emphasis on remaking the Middle East.

We all know that ideas do have consequences. Bad ideas, even when supported naively by the people, will have bad results. Could it be the people sense, in a profound way, that the policies of recent decades are unworkable-- and thus they have instinctively lost confidence in their government leaders? This certainly happened in the final years of the Soviet system. Though not fully understood, this sense of frustration may well be the source of anger we hear expressed on a daily basis by so many.

No matter how noble the motivations of political leaders are, when they achieve positions of power the power itself inevitably becomes their driving force. Government officials too often yield to the temptations and corrupting influences of power.

But there are many others who are not bashful about using government power to do “good.” They truly believe they can make the economy fair through a redistributive tax and spending system; make the people moral by regulating personal behavior and choices; and remake the world in our image using armies. They argue that the use of force to achieve good is legitimate and proper for government-- always speaking of the noble goals while ignoring the inevitable failures and evils caused by coercion.

Not only do they justify government force, they believe they have a moral obligation to do so.

Once we concede government has this “legitimate” function and can be manipulated by a majority vote, the various special interests move in quickly. They gain control to direct government largesse for their own benefit. Too often it is corporate interests who learn how to manipulate every contract, regulation and tax policy. Likewise, promoters of the “progressive” agenda, always hostile to property rights, compete for government power through safety, health, and environmental initiatives. Both groups resort to using government power-- and abuse this power-- in an effort to serve their narrow interests. In the meantime, constitutional limits on power and its mandate to protect liberty are totally forgotten.

Since the use of power to achieve political ends is accepted, pervasive, and ever expanding, popular support for various programs is achieved by creating fear. Sometimes the fear is concocted out of thin air, but usually it’s created by wildly exaggerating a problem or incident that does not warrant the proposed government “solution.” Often government caused the problem in the first place. The irony, of course, is that government action rarely solves any problem, but rather worsens existing problems or creates altogether new ones.

Fear is generated to garner popular support for the proposed government action, even when some liberty has to be sacrificed. This leads to a society that is systemically driven toward fear-- fear that gives the monstrous government more and more authority and control over our lives and property.

Fear is constantly generated by politicians to rally the support of the people.

Environmentalists go back and forth, from warning about a coming ice age to arguing the grave dangers of global warming.

It is said that without an economic safety net-- for everyone, from cradle to grave-- people would starve and many would become homeless.

It is said that without government health care, the poor would not receive treatment. Medical care would be available only to the rich.

Without government insuring pensions, all private pensions would be threatened.

Without federal assistance, there would be no funds for public education, and the quality of our public schools would diminish-- ignoring recent history to the contrary.

It is argued that without government surveillance of every American, even without search warrants, security cannot be achieved. The sacrifice of some liberty is required for security of our citizens, they claim.

We are constantly told that the next terrorist attack could come at any moment. Rather than questioning why we might be attacked, this atmosphere of fear instead prompts giving up liberty and privacy. 9/11 has been conveniently used to generate the fear necessary to expand both our foreign intervention and domestic surveillance.

Fear of nuclear power is used to assure shortages and highly expensive energy.

In all instances where fear is generated and used to expand government control, it’s safe to say the problems behind the fears were not caused by the free market economy, or too much privacy, or excessive liberty.

It’s easy to generate fear, fear that too often becomes excessive, unrealistic, and difficult to curb. This is important: It leads to even more demands for government action than the perpetrators of the fear actually anticipated.

Once people look to government to alleviate their fears and make them safe, expectations exceed reality. FEMA originally had a small role, but its current mission is to centrally manage every natural disaster that befalls us. This mission was exposed as a fraud during last year’s hurricanes; incompetence and corruption are now FEMA’s legacy. This generates anger among those who have to pay the bills, and among those who didn’t receive the handouts promised to them quickly enough.

Generating exaggerated fear to justify and promote attacks on private property is commonplace. It serves to inflame resentment between the producers in society and the so-called victims, whose demands grow exponentially.

The economic impossibility of this system guarantees that the harder government tries to satisfy the unlimited demands, the worse the problems become. We won’t be able to pay the bills forever, and eventually our ability to borrow and print new money must end. This dependency on government will guarantee anger when the money runs out. Today we’re still able to borrow and inflate, but budgets are getting tighter and people sense serious problems lurking in the future. This fear is legitimate. No easy solution to our fiscal problems is readily apparent, and this ignites anger and apprehension.

Disenchantment is directed at the politicians and their false promises, made in order to secure reelection and exert power that so many of them enjoy.

It is, however, in foreign affairs that governments have most abused fear to generate support for an agenda that under normal circumstances would have been rejected. For decades our administrations have targeted one supposed “Hitler” after another to gain support for military action against a particular country. Today we have three choices termed the axis of evil: Iran, Iraq or North Korea.

We recently witnessed how unfounded fear was generated concerning Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction to justify our first ever pre-emptive war. It is now universally known the fear was based on falsehoods. And yet the war goes on; the death and destruction continue.

This is not a new phenomenon. General Douglas MacArthur understood the political use of fear when he made this famous statement:

“Always there has been some terrible evil at home or some monstrous foreign power that was going to gobble us up if we did not blindly rally behind it.”

We should be ever vigilant when we hear the fear mongers preparing us for the next military conflict our young men and women will be expected to fight. We’re being told of the great danger posed by Almadinejad in Iran and Kim Jung Il in North Korea. Even Russia and China bashing is in vogue again. And we’re still not able to trade with or travel to Cuba. A constant enemy is required to expand the state. More and more news stories blame Iran for the bad results in Iraq. Does this mean Iran is next on the hit list?

The world is much too dangerous, we’re told, and therefore we must be prepared to fight at a moment’s notice, regardless of the cost. If the public could not be manipulated by politicians’ efforts to instill needless fear, fewer wars would be fought and far fewer lives would be lost.
 
PART TWO OF SPEECH

part two



Fear and Anger over Iraq

Though the American people are fed up for a lot of legitimate reasons, almost all polls show the mess in Iraq leads the list of why the anger is so intense.

Short wars, with well-defined victories, are tolerated by the American people even when they are misled as to the reasons for the war. Wars entered into without a proper declaration tend to be politically motivated and not for national security reasons. These wars, by their very nature, are prolonged, costly, and usually require a new administration to finally end them. This certainly was true with the Korean and Vietnam wars. The lack of a quick military success, the loss of life and limb, and the huge economic costs of lengthy wars precipitate anger. This is overwhelmingly true when the war propaganda that stirred up illegitimate fears is exposed as a fraud. Most soon come to realize the promise of guns and butter is an illusion. They come to understand that inflation, a weak economy, and a prolonged war without real success are the reality.

The anger over the Iraq war is multifaceted. Some are angry believing they were lied to in order to gain their support at the beginning. Others are angry that the forty billion dollars we spend every year on intelligence gathering failed to provide good information. Proponents of the war too often are unable to admit the truth. They become frustrated with the progress of the war and then turn on those wanting to change course, angrily denouncing them as unpatriotic and un-American.

Those accused are quick to respond to the insulting charges made by those who want to fight on forever without regard to casualties. Proponents of the war do not hesitate to challenge the manhood of war critics, accusing them of wanting to cut and run. Some war supporters ducked military service themselves while others fought and died, only adding to the anger of those who have seen battle up close and now question our campaign in Iraq.

When people see a $600 million embassy being built in Baghdad, while funding for services here in the United States is hard to obtain, they become angry. They can’t understand why the money is being spent, especially when they are told by our government that we have no intention of remaining permanently in Iraq.

The bickering and anger will not subside soon, since victory in Iraq is not on the horizon and a change in policy is not likely either.

The neoconservative instigators of the war are angry at everyone: at the people who want to get out of Iraq; and especially at those prosecuting the war for not bombing more aggressively, sending in more troops, and expanding the war into Iran.

As our country becomes poorer due to the cost of the war, anger surely will escalate. Much of it will be justified.

It seems bizarre that it’s so unthinkable to change course if the current policy is failing. Our leaders are like a physician who makes a wrong diagnosis and prescribes the wrong medicine, but because of his ego can’t tell the patient he made a mistake. Instead he hopes the patient will get better on his own. But instead of improving, the patient gets worse from the medication wrongly prescribed. This would be abhorrent behavior in medicine, but tragically it is commonplace in politics.

If the truth is admitted, it would appear that the lives lost and the money spent have been in vain. Instead, more casualties must be sustained to prove a false premise. What a tragedy! If the truth is admitted, imagine the anger of all the families that already have suffered such a burden. That burden is softened when the families and the wounded are told their great sacrifice was worthy, and required to preserve our freedoms and our Constitution.

But no one is allowed to ask the obvious. How have the 2,500 plus deaths, and the 18,500 wounded, made us more free? What in the world does Iraq have to do with protecting our civil liberties here at home? What national security threat prompted America’s first pre-emptive war? How does our unilateral enforcement of UN resolutions enhance our freedoms?

These questions aren’t permitted. They are not politically correct. I agree that the truth hurts, and these questions are terribly hurtful to the families that have suffered so much. What a horrible thought it would be to find out the cause for which we fight is not quite so noble.

I don’t believe those who hide from the truth and refuse to face the reality of the war do so deliberately. The pain is too great. Deep down, psychologically, many are incapable of admitting such a costly and emotionally damaging error. They instead become even greater and more determined supporters of the failed policy.

I would concede that there are some-- especially the die-hard neoconservatives, who believe it is our moral duty to spread American goodness through force and remake the Middle East-- who neither suffer regrets nor are bothered by the casualties. They continue to argue for more war without remorse, as long as they themselves do not have to fight. Criticism is reserved for the wimps who want to “cut and run.”

Due to the psychological need to persist with the failed policy, the war proponents must remain in denial of many facts staring them in the face.

They refuse to accept that the real reason for our invasion and occupation of Iraq was not related to terrorism.

They deny that our military is weaker as a consequence of this war.

They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Osama Bin Laden. They continue to blame our image problems around the world on a few bad apples.

They won’t admit that our invasion has served the interests of Iran’s radical regime.

The cost in lives lost and dollars spent is glossed over, and the deficit spirals up without concern.

They ridicule those who point out that our relationships with our allies have been significantly damaged.

We have provided a tremendous incentive for Russia and China, and others like Iran, to organize through the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. They entertain future challenges to our plans to dominate South East Asia, the Middle East, and all its oil.

Radicalizing the Middle East will in the long term jeopardize Israel’s security, and increase the odds of this war spreading.

War supporters cannot see that for every Iraqi killed, another family turns on us-- regardless of who did the killing. We are and will continue to be blamed for every wrong done in Iraq: all deaths, illness, water problems, food shortages, and electricity outages.

As long as our political leaders persist in these denials, the war won’t end. The problem is that this is the source of the anger, because the American people are not in denial and want a change in policy.

Policy changes in wartime are difficult, for it is almost impossible for the administration to change course since so much emotional energy has been invested in the effort. That’s why Eisenhower ended the Korean War, and not Truman. That’s why Nixon ended the Vietnam War, and not LBJ. Even in the case of Vietnam the end was too slow and costly, as more then 30,000 military deaths came after Nixon’s election in 1968. It makes a lot more sense to avoid unnecessary wars than to overcome the politics involved in stopping them once started. I personally am convinced that many of our wars could be prevented by paying stricter attention to the method whereby our troops are committed to battle. I also am convinced that when Congress does not declare war, victory is unlikely.

The most important thing Congress can do to prevent needless and foolish wars is for every member to take seriously his or her oath to obey the Constitution. Wars should be entered into only after great deliberation and caution. Wars that are declared by Congress should reflect the support of the people, and the goal should be a quick and successful resolution.

Our undeclared wars over the past 65 years have dragged on without precise victories. We fight to spread American values, to enforce UN resolutions, and to slay supposed Hitlers. We forget that we once spread American values by persuasion and setting an example-- not by bombs and preemptive invasions. Nowhere in the Constitution are we permitted to go to war on behalf of the United Nations at the sacrifice of our national sovereignty. We repeatedly use military force against former allies, thugs we helped empower—like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden—even when they pose no danger to us.

The 2002 resolution allowing the president to decide when and if to invade Iraq is an embarrassment. The Constitution authorizes only Congress to declare war. Our refusal to declare war transferred power to the president illegally, without a constitutional amendment. Congress did this with a simple resolution, passed by majority vote. This means Congress reneged on its responsibility as a separate branch of government, and should be held accountable for the bad policy in Iraq that the majority of Americans are now upset about. Congress is every bit as much at fault as the president.

Constitutional questions aside, the American people should have demanded more answers from their government before they supported the invasion and occupation of a foreign country.

Some of the strongest supporters of the war declare that we are a Christian nation, yet use their religious beliefs to justify the war. They claim it is our Christian duty to remake the Middle East and attack the Muslim infidels. Evidently I have been reading from a different Bible. I remember something about “Blessed are the peacemakers.”

My beliefs aside, Christian teaching of nearly a thousand years reinforces the concept of “The Just War Theory.” This Christian theory emphasizes six criteria needed to justify Christian participation in war. Briefly the six points are as follows:

1. War should be fought only in self defense;
2. War should be undertaken only as a last resort;
3. A decision to enter war should be made only by a legitimate authority;
4. All military responses must be proportional to the threat;
5. There must be a reasonable chance of success; and
6. A public declaration notifying all parties concerned is required.

The war in Iraq fails to meet almost all of these requirements. This discrepancy has generated anger and division within the Christian community.

Some are angry because the war is being fought out of Christian duty, yet does not have uniform support from all Christians. Others are angry because they see Christianity as a religion as peace and forgiveness, not war and annihilation of enemies.

Constitutional and moral restraints on war should be strictly followed. It is understandable when kings, dictators, and tyrants take their people into war, since it serves their selfish interests-- and those sent to fight have no say in the matter. It is more difficult to understand why democracies and democratic legislative bodies, which have a say over the issue of war, so readily submit to the executive branch of government. The determined effort of the authors of our Constitution to firmly place the power to declare war in the legislative branch has been ignored in the decades following WWII.

Many members have confided in me that they are quite comfortable with this arrangement. They flatly do not expect, in this modern age, to formally declare war ever again. Yet no one predicts there will be fewer wars fought. It is instead assumed they will be ordered by the executive branch or the United Nations-- a rather sad commentary.

What about the practical arguments against war, since no one seems interested in exerting constitutional or moral restraints? Why do we continue to fight prolonged, political wars when the practical results are so bad? Our undeclared wars since 1945 have been very costly, to put it mildly. We have suffered over one hundred thousand military deaths, and even more serious casualties. Tens of thousands have suffered from serious war-related illnesses. Sadly, we as a nation express essentially no concern for the millions of civilian casualties in the countries where we fought.

The cost of war since 1945, and our military presence in over 100 countries, exceeds two trillion dollars in today’s dollars. The cost in higher taxes, debt, and persistent inflation is immeasurable. Likewise, the economic opportunities lost by diverting trillions of dollars into war is impossible to measure, but it is huge. Yet our presidents persist in picking fights with countries that pose no threat to us, refusing to participate in true diplomacy to resolve differences. Congress over the decades has never resisted the political pressures to send our troops abroad on missions that defy imagination.

When the people object to a new adventure, the propaganda machine goes into action to make sure critics are seen as unpatriotic Americans or even traitors.

The military-industrial complex we were warned about has been transformed into a military-media-industrial-government complex that is capable of silencing the dissenters and cheerleading for war. It’s only after years of failure that people are able to overcome the propaganda for war and pressure their representatives in Congress to stop the needless killing. Many times the economic costs of war stir people to demand an end. This time around the war might be brought to a halt by our actual inability to pay the bills due to a dollar crisis. A dollar crisis will make borrowing 2.5 billion dollars per day from foreign powers like China and Japan virtually impossible, at least at affordable interest rates.

That’s when we will be forced to reassess the spending spree, both at home and abroad.

The solution to this mess is not complicated; but the changes needed are nearly impossible for political reasons. Sound free market economics, sound money, and a sensible foreign policy would all result from strict adherence to the Constitution. If the people desired it, and Congress was filled with responsible members, a smooth although challenging transition could be achieved. Since this is unlikely, we can only hope that the rule of law and the goal of liberty can be reestablished without chaos.

We must move quickly toward a more traditional American foreign policy of peace, friendship, and trade with all nations; entangling alliances with none. We must reject the notion that we can or should make the world safe for democracy. We must forget about being the world’s policeman. We should disengage from the unworkable and unforgiving task of nation building. We must reject the notion that our military should be used to protect natural resources, private investments, or serve the interest of any foreign government or the United Nations. Our military should be designed for one purpose: defending our national security. It’s time to come home now, before financial conditions or military weakness dictates it.

The major obstacle to a sensible foreign policy is the fiction about what patriotism means. Today patriotism has come to mean blind support for the government and its policies. In earlier times patriotism meant having the willingness and courage to challenge government policies regardless of popular perceptions.

Today we constantly hear innuendos and direct insults aimed at those who dare to challenge current foreign policy, no matter how flawed that policy may be. I would suggest it takes more courage to admit the truth, to admit mistakes, than to attack others as unpatriotic for disagreeing with the war in Iraq.

Remember, the original American patriots challenged the abuses of King George, and wrote and carried out the Declaration of Independence.

Yes Mr. Speaker, there is a lot of anger in this country. Much of it is justified; some of it is totally unnecessary and misdirected. The only thing that can lessen this anger is an informed public, a better understanding of economic principles, a rejection of foreign intervention, and a strict adherence to the constitutional rule of law. This will be difficult to achieve, but it’s not impossible and well worth the effort.
 
Thanks for posting that, xd9fan. As usual, Paul is right on the money.

Biker
 
cool

Too bad we can't clone him.

Now we just need to get him to jump from the House to the Senate, so he can get his name out more.

greg
 
Past as Prologue

Alexander Hamilton to John Holt

October 19, 1778

Sir,

While every method is taken to bring to justice
those men whose principles and practices have
been hostile to the present revolution, it is
to be lamented that the conduct of another class,
equally crimininal, and, if possible, more
mischievous, has hitherto passed with impunity,
and almost without notice. I mean that tribe,
who taking advantage of the times, have carried
the spirit of monopoly and extortion to an excess
which scarcely admits of a parallel. Emboldened
by the success of progressive impositions, it
has extended to all the necessities of life.
The exorbitant price of every article, and the
depreciation upon our currency, are evils derived
essentially from this source. When avarice takes
the lead in a state, it is commonly the forerunner
of its fall. How shocking it is to discover among
ourselves, even at this early period, the strongest
symptoms of this fatal disease!...

When a man appointed to be the guardian of the state
and the depositary of the happiness and morals of
the people, forgetful of the solemn relation in
which he stands, descends to the dishonest articles
of a mercantile projector and sacrifices his conscience
and his trust to pecuniary motives, there is no
strain of abhorrence of which the human mind is
capable, no punishment the vengeance of the people
can inflict, which may not be applied to him with
justice. If it should have happened that a member
of Congress had been this degenerate character, and
has been known to turn the knowledge of secrets to
which his office gave him access to the purpose of
private profit, by employing emissaries to engross
an article of immediate necessity to the public
service, he ought to feel the utmost rigor of public
resentment and be detested as a traitor of the worst
and most dangerous kind.
 
HON. Ron Paul of Texas starts his presentation with some well rounded thoughts but turns this into a Left-style anti-war rant. Bush lied - people died. Old mantra. It hasn't rung true for years now and if the Democrats think they can win a future election with it, they will remain the political minority.


I could counter-rant all day with this but lets just hit some high points.

RP's observations on the average American's lack of understanding with economic issues, government borrowing, taxes, and the dependence upon the government to solve our problems (FEMA) are spot on.

But the war rant...

We recently witnessed how unfounded fear was generated concerning Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction to justify our first ever pre-emptive war. It is now universally known the fear was based on falsehoods.

I guess he hasn't been watching the news in the past couple of days.
Last count I had of Saddam's WMD's was 500+. And people like to forget the missle lauches Saddam pulled off in the opening days of the war - accomplishing ranges which were "outlawed" by the UN.

I personally differed with the Bush administrations justifications of the war. As Commander in Chief, I would have just waited for Saddam to fire once more on our pilots patrolling the no-fly zone (an almost daily occurance at the time) and then cleaned house. You don't shoot at the "US" and walk away.


How have the 2,500 plus deaths, and the 18,500 wounded, made us more free?

I say yes. In that it may well have kept many Americans alive here in the US by taking the war to the terroritst.

Constitutional questions aside, the American people should have demanded more answers from their government before they supported the invasion and occupation of a foreign country.

Nice thought but unpractical to have the CIC operate with opinion polls. That's what elections are for. Now demanding more answers in general, even if it is after the fact, is as American as apple pie.



The only thing that can lessen this anger is an informed public, a better understanding of economic principles, a rejection of foreign intervention, and a strict adherence to the constitutional rule of law. This will be difficult to achieve, but it’s not impossible and well worth the effort.

Two out of three ain't bad. In today's world, rejection of foreign intervention is just not an option. Is he saying we should not worry about North Korea's nuclear weapons development and missle test?
 
Past as Prologue (part 2)

John Adams to Patrick Henry

Philadelphia, June 3, 1776

My Dear Sir,
...The dons, the bashaws, the grandees, the patricians, the sachems, the
nabobs, call them by what names you please, sigh and groan and fret, and
sometimes stamp and foam and curse, but all in vain. The decree is gone
forth, and it cannot be recalled, that a more equal liberty than has prevailed
in other parts of the earth must be established in America. The exuberance
of pride which has produced an insolent domination in a few, a very few,
opulent, monopolizing families, will be brought down nearer to the confines
of reason and moderation than they have been used to. This is all the
evil which they themselves will endure. It will do them good in this world,
and in every other. For pride was not made for man, only as a tormentor.
 
Quote:
Constitutional questions aside, the American people should have demanded more answers from their government before they supported the invasion and occupation of a foreign country.



Nice thought but unpractical to have the CIC operate with opinion polls. That's what elections are for. Now demanding more answers in general, even if it is after the fact, is as American as apple pie.

I believe that was a job for Congress, a "voice of the people"..
 
Paul is generally right, as he usually is, but if government has a role at all it is surely in providing a defense against threats to our national security. Whether Iraq is the right war or the wrong war is open to dispute but there is, to me, no question that we have very real external enemies that we are going to have to deal with by collective (governmental) action. We cannot ignore them because they will not ignore us: in fact, these enemies hate us for our freedom and our fearlessness.

The issue of why Americans are "angry" is a complex one. There is no one reason for that anger, any more than there is any longer one America to feel the anger. Many Americans are angry because they feel their government no longer listens to them, others because they feel the cohesive values that bonded America are being systematically attacked and subverted, still others are angry because they're discovering that there are no guarantees for endless prosperity and immediate gratification, others yet because, well, only their psychiatrists and pharmacologists know for sure.
 
Why are Americans angry?

1. Uncertainty. Even though the economy is strong and unemployment is low, most people have high debt and know that they are just one paycheck away from serious trouble. And they also know that there is no job security any more - a company will fire a long term, loyal employee in a minute to get earnings up a little this quarter.

2. We're hopelessly spoiled and have been taught we have the right to never have to struggle, either to preserve democracy or to get ahead in life.

3. "Politics is personal." This was the mantra of the 1960s, and the result is that insult, anger, and threat is now the normal language in which we discuss issues. Instead of asking if a policy is wise, we attack the person proposing it.

4. Lack of control. The federal government is too big, and too far away, and it's hard to influence it. I can at least speak my mind to my city council, and if they make a decision I don't like I will see them in the grocery store or at church, and their kids go to school with my kids. But if the EPA or the IRS does something awful to me, it's going to be expensive and probably futile to do anything about it. Most of the decisions that affect our lives are now made by anonymous bureaucrats a long distance away.

5. I think many Americans have an instinctive belief that things are going to downhill before too long, and fear makes them angry.
 
Paul presented an interesting ain't-it-awful musing but never really made a point IMO, leaving the readers to infer whatever they were inclined to.

If people are "angry", I think it has more to do with an imperial Supreme Court than anything else. Secondarily would be a feeling of general powerlessness and then frustration.

The other "angry" group would be those who used to belong to the middle class, many once employed by now defunct manufacturing companies at inflated wages. You either ride a wave until it hits the beach or you find another wave.
 
I agree with Paul's points, but not his title. 95% of Americans only become angry along with Homer Simpson, i.e. when something is blocking the TV.

You guys trying to pretend to yourselves that a few shells from the Iraq-Iran war filled with US-supplied nerve gas amount to a WMD threat to the US are definitely among the 95%.

yes, lets just ignore the Middle East.

Yes, let's. Instead of supplying everyone with weapons and aid, and spending $500 billion on invading Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Iran, let's ignore it. Switzerland ignores the Middle East, and they're doing OK.

For $500 billion, would you rather have cities on Mars and cancer cures, or a bad rerun of the Crusades?
 
so engineer151515, if you had been told prior to the iraq war, that saddam was sitting on 500 devices, all of which were mfg'd prior to the first war, you'd still support the $300 BILLION dollars we've spent on this? and the lives lost?

I could maybe understanding if freeing the iraqi people had been the primary stated goal.

I agree with RP that these wars are misguided, especially the current one. (I'm still neutral on vietnam, but leaning slightly pro)


However, I disagree about why people are so angry. I think they're angry because the government simply doesn't represent them anymore. As i've said before, the important thing to notice is that people are generally HAPPY with their local gov, and OK with their state gov, and PISSED at the fed gov. Obviously, the farther away it gets, the less it represents the people.

People are pissed most of all because the checks and balances we've always believed in, have recently come unglued. The legislative branch has completely and totally dropped the ball, and the SCOTUS is flat out insane. All the while, the exec branch gains power and moves toward totalitarianism.
 
RP's 'points' are good, but not great. Instant gratification, give it to me now and go away, is more of the problem than the war.

If you think 'old' chemical weapons aren't worth the effort, how about you put one in your livingromm or garage?

Kill them over there, not us over here.

If RP thinks the administration and the goverment are soooo bad, why doesn't he DO what he's paid for and FIX it?

No, I really don't care what you think, nor am I a "95 percenter".
 
Switzerland ignores the Middle East, and they're doing OK.

Bankers to the world...sure they IGNORE the Middle East. How much terrorist money is going through Switzerland? How many rich Muslims with terrorist ties have homes there or educate their kids there?

The radicals will get around to Geneva and Zurich eventually, don't worry. The Swiss are pimping terrorism, and we all know pimps rarely die in bed, worn down by old age.
 
so engineer151515, if you had been told prior to the iraq war, that saddam was sitting on 500 devices, all of which were mfg'd prior to the first war, you'd still support the $300 BILLION dollars we've spent on this? and the lives lost?

The short answer is no - I would not have justified the war on the 500 WMD's. The WMD arguement was always weak. Proving that you don't have something is akin to proving your innocent. If I don't have a dollar on me, and your inspectors have checked my pockets, how do I prove I don't have a dollar on me? Weak logic in that you are trying to prove a false answer (IMO). I also wouldn't have ambiguously declared this a "War on Terror". Too vague. Pick your target (or nation). Bring it down. If another enemy appears, we will justify that action on its own merits.

However, me as CIC = we still would have ended up fighting Iraq. It wasn't a money issue. Saddam repeatedly broke the terms of the peace by firing on US aircraft in the no-fly zones. President Clinton's cruise missle responses were not changing the frequency of these attacks and it was only a matter of time before a pilot was shot down (with help from the Russians) and things went from bad to worse. Don't forget, Clinton publicly stated that he would have invaded Iraq too.

The containement of Iraq was not without financial impact. Containment as authorized by the United Nations Security Council included economic sanctions on Iraq, disarmament requirements, weapons inspections, Northern and Southern no-fly zones within Iraq, and maritime interdiction to enforce trade restrictions. The United States devoted roughly 28,000 troops, 30 naval vessels, 200 military aircraft and other equipment to Iraqi containment efforts prior to the pre-war buildup, estimated cost of about $14.5 billion per year. Cuba have proven that this policy can last 20-30 years. This would have been increasingly disruptive to the world's oil markets as Saddam continued to find ways to threaten the west. Perhaps another "super cannon" aimed at Israel? Perhaps something else dreamed up? Russia, China and France were brokering deals to control the region. Then what would the "cost" have been?

Let me also say that I honor and respect the brave servicemen/women serving all around the globe. I pray for those which gave their lives in the service of protecting our nation. I have a personal interest in praying for the safety of our troops as my son is currently serving in Bagdad. I wish it was me instead. I also know the last WMD our country was hit with was not a gas filled artillery shell. It was a Boeing airliner and that attack left 3000 of my counrtymen/women dead. Mostly innocent civilians. We should confront those nations/terrorist groups that want to destroy us. Preemptively, if at all possible. I would not have proceeded like President Bush did. But I would have ended up doing most of the same actions.

Again. Just my opinion. Sorry for the long post. I usually try not to go on like this.
 
Stevelyn, Vern, enough.

Osama wants to revive the Caliphate and expand it globally. In the process, the Christian West must necessarily be thrown down and subjugated.
The means? Terror and violence.

So far, a trifling taste of the latter has created enough of the former to allow the very scum of our political class to sieze ever-greater powers for themselves, furthering the inevitable disintigration of the Pax Americana, which was predicated upon America's national fortitude.
Rather than continuing as a fortress of moral strength and freedom, America is being forced further down the road of social decay and tyranny. This is specifically playing into the hands of Osama and his cronies, as a morally weakened, liberty-stricken nation cannot resist outside influences as easily.

Those of us who have been watching the avalanche with an ever increasing sense of political impotence are livid.
Liberty is being stripped away in exchange for a counterfeit mockery of 'security', from airport strip searches to NSA 'whoops, you heard about that wiretapping business... oh, well, we're acting within the law anyway, so don't bother investigating us, Justice Department, and incidentally, we don't answer to you anyway'.
Others are angry for reasons of their own, from a quaint dislike for politically prescribed violence to a dangerously false sense of 'patriotism' built on the mindset that 'our' government and military can do no wrong in a time of war- and thus the 'New York Times are Traitors!' and similar worries based on a distrust of every institution that is not the core government.

"I think they're angry because the government simply doesn't represent them anymore."
Taliv, I do believe that you have hit the nail on the head.
 
RP was correct in all his criticisms, but longeyes hit on why Americans are upset. ie for various reasons. What's more, there isn't an America as we knew it to be anymore, there are several Americas.

When the fedgov became so big and bloated, that people on the state and county level could not look after their affairs with local means (3000 tyrants one mile away, accept Gibson was wrong, it is 3000 tyrants 3000 miles away, and they are trampling our rights), it created a slow pressure cooker.

People in California are fundamentally diffferent from Texans in terms of culture. If only both Texans and Californians could respect each other's differences, things would be okay, but they both wish to use the fedgov to impose their will upon each other ('cept for Texans like Paul of course).

My personal belief, the fact that these different Americas are trying to control each other combined with the fact that the fedgov is a monolith, uncrackable except through massive special interest ventures, and the larger corporations is what really causes these problems.

In fact all of the economic, social, and foreign intervention problems mentioned by Paul all stem back to these fundamental problems of multiple Americas and a government lony accessable via special interests and corporations.
 
Switzerland ignores the Middle East, and they're doing OK.

+1. After serving in Iraq, I'd like to see us return to the original model and
intent of the Founding Fathers. This would be closer to what the Swiss
have now, but what we use to have: strong borders, no long foreign military
escapades, strong service AND manufacturing base, politicians who put their
own people first. And, if I recall correctly, we were the world's biggest
banker at one time --not its biggest debt slave.

It's unfortunate that the globalist neo-cons won out over the Fortress
America neo-cons in the current administration, but this is the direct result
of the mentality that was complained about by the FF's in the two letters I
already posted in this thread. Many Americans see this SELL-OUT and are
angry. :fire:
 
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