Why bother reloading 380acp?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vai I have realized the same thing in other calibers.

The savings many cite for reloading are misleading, especially outside of bulk purchases.

They do not include shipping quite often, and hazmat fees add up and remove any savings really fast on small orders.
Lead is heavy, and while it is not excessively expensive to ship ground on small orders it will quickly eat into the minor amounts saved.

Almost nobody considers the cost of brass, and for some calibers that adds up more than others, especially in less common calibers. As well as in some semi-autos that wear it out faster.

A lot of reloading components used to almost be sold at cost, now it seems many intend to make a profit on the increased market size and demand.


The biggest cost to a reloader is bullets, and many reloaders quoting costs are factoring almost free lead. Plated bullets cost more.
Many of the previous sources have a lot more competition now as the number of reloaders has increased dramatically.
In California and a few other states lead wheel weights were recently outlawed and they are one of the often cited sources.
Obviously lead being the primary expense this makes calibers with heavier bullets much more expensive to load.


Storing huge amounts of primers and powder has its own safety concerns as well, so a lot of bulk buying and storage may not be for everyone.


I recently did a quick breakdown on .40 cal reloading with small component purchases and was quite shocked at the minimal savings compared to prices at a place like Walmart.

A single pound of powder at the local gunshops is about $25.
They are charging $40 for 1000 primers, although the going rate is about $30.
That is 3-4 cents per round. Powder is similar for many loads.
Take a look at a typical seller like midway and factor shipping as well, over $20 per 100 180 grain jacketed bullets, which boils down to 20 cents per round for just the bullet! Slightly cheaper at around 17 cents a round for the 1,000 round purchases. But that is not even the quality hollowpoints.
(You can get non-jacketed cheaper, but then you have other limitations: leading in the bore, velocity limits without excessive leading, problems with polygonal rifling, less reliable feeding, etc)

It was about 25-30 cents a round to reload. That is like rapid firing quarters down range. And that is without purchasing brass.
This is around the same price per round to purchase from Walmart, except it is already loaded in new brass.
And it is only similar if you maximized your components and got every possible round from them, any wasted or damaged components would offset savings even more.
Bulk component purchases reduce costs, as does using non jacketed or finding free or low cost lead alloy sources. Casting your own bullets also reduces costs but requires the purchase of molds, pots, and processes like fluxing and determining bullet hardness for safety reasons, along with dealing with unhealthy molten lead and fumes.
It also assumes your time and labor is free, while that is already included in the cost of commercial rounds.

So if you factor in the cost of the press and other tools, the savings per round, and how many rounds it will take to equal that cost in realistic terms without neglecting to include hidden costs (like most quoting costs do), it takes many rounds just to pay for itself.
 
Last edited:
Correction, my mistake, cost of complete set of Lee carbide .380 acp dies from natchez -- $23.95.

Surplus powders are still available in the price range of $13 to $14 dollars, this is for 1 8 lb jug, $20 hazmet and shipping of approx $10 to $15 dollars.

Powder Valley has primers for $20 per thousand and if one orders a case of 5,000 there's no hazmet.

This brings the cost per round to approx 3 cents, or $1.50 per box of 50. This is for your own cast bullets, not hard to do as they were doing it in the 1700's.
 
Last edited:
"Reloading" implies that you'll be re-using the same brass multiple times. You just don't need to buy much brass, and I'm thinking that if you remove that from your costs, you'll find that you do save money. Just buy a box of 100 FMJ to practice with. Shoot 'em up. Now you need powder, primers, and bullets and you're ready to go again. You can do this numerous times and that's where your savings come in. If you add in the cost of the press and dies, it may take some time to come up to the break even point, however, but not that long.

$3.00/100 primers = 0.03
1400 loads per pound of powder at 5 grains per load $20/1400 = 0.014
$27.00/500 Missouri Bullets = 0.054
Total=per round = 0.098 round it to $0.10 per round or $10 per box of 100

If that original box cost you $30, then for two boxes, it has cost you $40/2. Three boxes will be $50/3, and four boxes stands at $60/4. You're now at half price = $15 per box of 100 after reloading that brass 3 times. I don't know how many reloads you'll get out of the brass, but since it's straight walled and assuming you don't load a 380 for bear, you should get quite a few reloads.
 
I agree, many dealers in ammo were totally price gouging and was more than likely respons for many getting into reloading. ^5

While it may have resulted in many starting to reload, it is NOT gouging to charge what the market will bear......way too many folks need an Econ 101 class to understand how this works, and how it might affect your salary or bonus, let alone your pension plan
 
IF you are only going to shoot a few boxes a year, AND it is the ONLY thing you are going to reload for, then no, it is not worth going through all of it. but, if you are going to shoot. like a lot of us, reloading is a way to make your dollar stretch a LOT further! actually, most of us really do not save a dime. we just shoot a lot more!
 
As my buddy told me when I ask about getting into realoading. You won't save any money, you will just get to shoot more.

The biggest falsehood we tell our wives is that we will save money reloading. I actually spend more than ever, but I have been shooting several times more.
 
Welcome to THR forum Val.
for you to save much $$ reloading/handloading you would have to shoot at least 500 rounds combined yearly of centerfire firearms.
however if you have family members/close friends that shoot the same chamberings you have it may pay to re-load the cheaper 'range/plinking' brass cases with 'premium' bullets.
that's what I do for some nephews thier wives and my sisters.
sisters and the wives have .380acp I load Rem GS for except 1 sis that has Walther .32acp I load fmj's. says 'too much blast w/.380acp'
nephews have 9mm Para and all have carbines in addition. +P loads come out of the carbines w/a 'bang'.
 
I recently did a quick breakdown on .40 cal reloading with small component purchases and was quite shocked at the minimal savings compared to prices at a place like Walmart.
.40 SW is a cartridge where you can save a good bit, and free pickup brass is plentiful.
Take a look at a typical seller like midway and factor shipping as well, over $20 per 100 180 grain jacketed bullets, which boils down to 20 cents per round for just the bullet! But that is not even the quality hollowpoints.
This is where you went south. This is way too much for FMJ, or even generic hollowpoints. You can buy 100x 180 grain Hornady XTP's for around $18. Compare that to factory loaded Hornady XTP bullets at what, a buck each?

And there's really nothing wrong with plated bullets in .40 (at under 9 cents per, by the thousand). They're good up to over 1200 fps. If you can get a 180 gr bullet that fast out of your gun, pm me your load! If you check the box of your cheap walmart loads (e.g. UMC bulk), don't be surprised to see a conspicuous lack of "FMJ" anywhere on the box. Instead you'll see something like 180 grain "Metal Cased." My guess is these are plated bullets.
 
Last edited:
I think reloading's fun. I reload for all my stuff, and I do it while watching tv, but when thinking about getting into reloading, don't forget to add in the cost of your time (even if it's zero) when you calculate reloading costs. 100 rounds an hour is a nice round number. so you can reload it for $X + an hour of you life vs. a box of factory.

If you've got a busy busy life and lots of kids, you may not have an hour of your life to spare. or you hour may be worth more than the 10 or even $20 a box you save by reloading.
 
Oneounce: I never bought the high priced gouged ammo from anyone. I was reloading back then too and had a supply in hand for what I shoot. Regardless of supply and demand, it is still price gouging if you sell above MSRP, whether people bought them or not. A huckster will always find a fool to pay more than something is worth. Most panic buys are false scenes anyways that calm down in time and prooved to be a total fake on the public. IMHO

I for one have never paid price gouged prices on guns, ammo, reloading supplies as there is always an honest dealer/wholesaler out there somewhere.
 
Regardless of supply and demand, it is still price gouging if you sell above MSRP, whether people bought them or not.
No it is not price gouging. The MSRP is the manufacturer SUGGESTED retail price. Key word being "SUGGESTED".

I for one have never paid price gouged prices on guns, ammo, reloading supplies as there is always an honest dealer/wholesaler out there somewhere.
Since those things are not critical to daily survival, they cannot be price gouged. Gouging in your mind is having something priced more than you want to pay. That's not gouging, that's being cheap.
 
Bluehawk
Member

Join Date: May 28, 2006
Posts: 849

Quote:
The small size of 380 ACP adds a little difficulty to loading it...
If you think .380 is tough to load...try reloading .25 auto like I do!
Hey Clark ol' buddy...how do you get a 158 grain bullet to fit and function in a .380 magazine??

I probably only have a half dozen 380s and have not spent that much time with them, but they all seem to be radically different in terms of how hot the load.
The absolute wimpiest is the P3AT doing 1100 fps 90 gr .968". And that is on the hairy edge.

The best is the 1903 Colt. The magazine is long enough for the 9mm Browning. Many 9mm pistols I have to throat to use the 158 .357" or .358", but the 1903 Colt can take a 1.090" OAL and take a 158 gr without throating.

All that powder will bulge he case, so I have re size the loaded ammo. There are carbide die rings that are larger than normal sizers, like the ring that screws in in the bottom of a Lee factory crimp pistol die. That is less radical, but get the ammo small enough to fall in and fall out of the chamber. Without that detail, the primer starts piercing way down in the work up. Tight ammo means pinched bullets. It is also important not to squish the bullet to a larger diameter, the Power Pistol bulk modulus is low enough for some forgiveness. With ball powder is is best to compress the powder with a dummy bullet of a pin gauge in a collet puller die. The ball powder never really compresses, but pushes the brass around. The peaks in compression pressure on seating the ball powder could squish a lead centered bullet.
 
Reloading is a fun, relaxing passtime. You will always have ammo to shoot, even when the stores are closed, even when the stores are out of stock, even when the prices for factory made swing way high.

Like anything else, you achieve better cost comparisons buying components in bulk rather than onesie-twosie. A bottle of beer can be over $4 in some bars, you can get it by the 12 pack case for a lot less than $50 -lol

I reload .380, 9mm and .45Acp. I spend the same and get to shoot more for my buck. If you only shoot a couple boxes of ammo a year, there is NO cost advantage in reloading. But even then it is nice to be self-sufficient and have a new 'manly' skill -lol.
 
To save money reloading, you need to buy in bulk. Assuming 10,000 rounds of loaded/reloaded ammo, here's the initial costs:

$ 838 - 10,000 Montana Gold 95gr FMJ bullets (direct, s&h included)
.. 114 - 1,000 Starline brass cases (direct, s&h included), each loaded at least 10 times
.. 200 - 10,000 Tula small pistol primers
.... 65 - 5lbs Accurate #2 powder (x 7000gr/lb / 3.2gr/round = 10,937 rnds)

(Powder Valley is currently having a sale where if you buy 10,000 Tula primers, they pay for the shipping and haz-mat, even if you add other items like powder, primers, etc. If this sale wasn't available, figure shipping and haz-mat would add about a half a cent to the cost of each round, or 25 cents to a box of 50 rounds.)

Total cost of components = $1217. That's $.1217 per round, or $6.09 per box of 50. And you won't run out of .380 Auto ammo for a while...

Seriously, yesterday evening I noticed I was running low on .380 FMJ ammo. In 45 minutes, using my RCBS hand primer tool and Lee Classic Turret press, I was able to produce 100 quality .380 Auto rounds using 3.2gr of Accurate #2, Hornady 100gr FMJ-Encapsulated bullets, Starline brass, and CCI small pistol primers. Using my cost of components purchased years ago, the 100 rounds cost me less than 8 cents each. Buy an inexpensive reloading setup, and the savings will pay for your setup in a very short time period, even if the only round you load is the .380 Auto. Load .44 Special or .45 Colt and watch the savings mount even faster.

Figure you find a deal on commercial .380 Auto, and the cost is $13.17 per box of 50. By reloading you're saving $7 on every box of 50 you don't have to buy. Multiply that by 200 boxes (the 10,000 rounds we spoke of earlier) and you've saved $1400. With that $1400 you can buy a pretty impressive reloading setup, or keep your setup relatively inexpensive and buy more components.

This is where those "in the know" will acknowledge that reloading doesn't really save you money, it just lets you shoot a heck of a lot more for the money you spend.
 
Last edited:
Yes, MSRP is a "suggestion", but it is also a gauge for someone knowing if they are ripped off by a gouger or not.

There is NO gouging on ammunition - you either pay what the market has set the price to be or not. If you think it is unfair, step aside and let the person behind step to buy it.

Sellers do NOT set the price of goods - BUYERS do - they are either willing or not to pay the price. All one has to do is look at current prices on firearms and related stuff and how the prices have dropped once the self-induced panic attack subsided. That panic went viral thanks to the gossip of the internet and the ensuing panic created a demand that far outstripped supply. SO many paranoids were so afraid that everything was going to disappear by Christmas in 2008, they were WILLING to pay any price.

When there is a willing buyer and a willing seller, there is NO gouging.
 
1903 Colt 380:

Win factory ammo 95 gr 830 fps
My handloads 158 gr 1187 fps

Am I reading this wrong??? Are you suggesting that you are reloading 380 acp with a 158gr bullet and it is moving at 1187 fps?

Surely you are confusing 380acp with a 38 spl load of some sort???

Cause there ain't no way that is happening!


Ok, after further reading I see your explanation. I still would have to see it to believe it though that you are getting 357 mag velocity with a 158gr .358" bullet out of a 380 platform. Not calling you a liar now, but you would have to take me to the range with a chrony to prove that to me!
 
Last edited:
Not sure if it's been brought up, but I suggest buying factory ammo while you get your reloading legs under you. Save the brass, and accumulate whatever range pickups and deals to be had on the 'sale' board here. I had gobs of brass, and a good tumbler, months before I was actually reloading.
 
Take the Econ 101 dialog to PMs, please - they are off topic for THR. Failure to stay on topic from this point forward is likely to result in certain folk being granted vacations away from THR for a while.
 
wankerjake: I have no trouble believing Clark's numbers. He is a long-time hot-rodder, with a known history on at least two forums, and a fair number of firearms in remnants.

{/segue}

Jim H.
 
Why bother? For about all of 2009 people were buying up 380 pistols and the dealers were only selling one box per pistol. None at the ranges at all. I know several people that picked up an LCP but couldn't shoot it to practice because then they wouldn't have their box of ammo. I still practiced regularly with 380 but did reduce the number of rounds per session during the 380 shortage. The newspaper here even ran a story about gouging up to $80/box. Didn't matter to me since I was still shooting good quality ammo at <$8/bx. Peace of mind knowing that you have it whenever you need it is as important a reason to bother reloading it as is cost.
 
My experience tells me that I can reload for about half what factory ammo costs in the store. That will vary a bit with the caliber and what kind of a deal I get on components.
If 380s are $16 dollars for 50, I think I can reload them for $8. (or close)
I said reload. I am not including the cost of brass in this. I usually buy some factory ammo at first when I get a new gun, then after a while I have some brass to reload. Nor does this include the cost of tools.

It takes quite a few boxes of ammo to make back the cost of equipment, but the equipment lasts a long time. Once you have the basics, it doesn't cost much to add another caliber. Dies and a shell holder usually. I sure don't regret making the plunge many years ago.
 
I have dies for every centerfire calibre I own, including .25 ACP and .32 ACP. As long as I save my brass and have components in stock, I'll never be running out of ammo.
 
Here in central Florida .380 ammo has been consistently running $25 a box, and my LCP hates the cheaper Tulammo. Since I already reload and cast my own bullets, reloading the .380 just seemed like the right thing to do. Yesterday UpTheIrons said, " I'm still new to the game, so I'm not comfortable switching to cheaper lead bullets yet". Anyone who feels this way should lurk on the Cast Boolits website for a while and then take the plunge and try cast bullets. Cast bullets are in no way inferior to jacketed bullets, having a jacket on the bullet it just allows you to get away with using a bullet that isn't sized properly for your weapon. I save so much money just on the .380 that it makes it all worthwhile. Since I already had all my casting and reloading equipment, my start up costs for the .380 equalled just two boxes of ammo. I bought Lee dies and a two cavity mold for under $50. I don't buy powder and primers in huge quantities either, I buy 1000 primers and 1 lb of powder at a time. The primers have been running me $34/1000 and powder is about $20lb, so my reloads cost me under $43 per thousand. That's just $2.15 a box, even if you had to buy bullets you could get cast or plated for $70/1000, which is $113 or $5.65 a box total cost. That's 1000 cartridges for less than the cost of 250 factory rounds. Like someone mentioned earlier, use factory stuff while you're getting setup and save all of your brass. I made friends with the rangemaster where I shoot and he gladly saved a bunch of brass for me. I even worked out a deal with him where he gave me several buckets of range scrap, I smelted all of the lead and gave him half of it back as ingots.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top