Why buy and/or carry so many bullets?

[blindjim]

What am I missing? I see such prevalence for pistol makers to increase the capacity of their weapons regularly, well, many but not all. It appears there is a race of sorts for seeing just how many shots this gun or that can hold as they bring them to market!

Then too, many pages here ande elsewhere are absolutely littered with the cries for gaining weapons with double digit shot capacities. The hype is immense. I’ve bought into it some myself, albeit for more substantial reasons than some sheer numbers approach.

Due to merely poor vision I’ve stepped up my capacities to 10 rounds in both my Ruger KP 345, and my Mossberg 930 SPX. Ridiculous? I think so now that I’ve had some time to reflect.

Past experiences show only one or two, perhaps at most, 3 or 4, shots ever get sent out to find their new nest by either attacker or attacked. . I’ve never shot more than 2 in a given instance, and that was during an event in a security position I once held. I could see far better in past years, unlike today. Maybe the other eight rounds I shlep about, carry my confidence for me. Could be.
.
Does the ordinary, everyday, clock punching guy or gal, or business professional need to carry an armory along with the lunch bucket, or Wall Street Journal? Are JHPs the new condiment? Is it ballast to offset the brief case, newspaper, or their own trepidations? Maybe it’s simple compensation for some other deficit they possess..

Maybe it’s just today’s ‘urban or metro’ proactive chic.

Could be it’s way simpler a thing… just plain old hype! Advertisement! Peer pressure! It caught me up in it’s web for a time… despite the fact for me, it’s questionably a good idea.

Perhaps too, these new or repeat gun buyers of uber high capacity pistols believe an alien attack is imminent? An urban uprising is being concocted somewhere close by? Could it be these high cap gun buyers are supposed to single handedly take down Alkida? Or maybe we’re all Bruce Willis wanna be’s?

Well probably not, but some views on the topic scatter far and wide the why of it, especially those from the non gun toting crowd.
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In all seriousness I’m lost. I think only the A Team needs a six thousande shooter.

I was beginning to think new age poly frames and hi cap 9MM clips are the latest way to accessorize those new Dockers, or Dior outfits.

Could it be the new market for gun sales is aimed primarily at those in the actual bidness of crime itself? Those engaged in it’s commission rather than it’s omission?

Maybe it’s our own little interpersonal communal arms race, where the winner has the greatest firepower, rather than the best skills.

I read just last night online, one person claiming two carry, two guns, and two clips for each… or about 50 rounds total! Several others avowing they held regularly 30 or more. Could be they live in Zaiaire, I don’t know!

Or is it more like, we couldn’t hit the ground with our hats, let alone a man sized silhouette at 21 feet? 10 feet? …and we need every bullet we can carry despite the fact the likelihood we’ll ever let one fly is about as remote as getting run over by the Short Bus?

My single stack 8 rd & 10 rd clips have proven to me it’s near impossible at first to fill them up to the top. Ouch! It’s going to be some sore thumbs and some alone time in the den late at night emptying and re-filling clip after clip, or the addition of an autoloader…. Or gee… some Range time!

So why tote an ammo dump and additional clips for Pete’s sake? You got enough slugs in that hi cap arm as is, to stave off an assault by most 3rd 4th, and 5th world nations, and a bunch of magazine subscription sales people.your pneumatic tool borrowing never bringing back neighbors and all sorts of other vermin, with your eyes closed!

Why go to the raNge at all? JUST BUY A BIGGER CLIP? Carry an extra pistol! Or three!

I’m guessing here too, those carrying guns with 12, 14, 17 or more rounds are also wearing Kevlar vests and Kevlar underoos! And their daily prayers are that whomever they meet in a life threatening circumstance are not Bob Munden, Howard Darby, or Nicole Franks having a bad day!

If the aim is to increase the shooting ability. Improve one’s marksmanship. Fore see and/or avoid scenarios that put you at risk. Deploy and act appropriately and quickly. Slam all your rounds into a 1, 2, or 3 inch group at 50ft or less, how come they need 17 bullets to do it with?

I’m a bit confused.

Do most people actually think they’ll be able to expend all those rounds if they deploy their weapon in a crisis situation against another assailant, or even two who were foolish enough to bring a knife to a gun fight?

Trust me… that new shiny pistol and all those extra rounds are gonna wind up in the hands of your mugger if you are unable to avoid, foresee, difuse or overcome some dire situation. That both hands up in the air stance only worked for the Karate Kid.

Possessing, carrying, and concealing 20 round fire arms seems as ludicrous as the adage that everyone should carry a gun. Dodge city and other Frontier towns had it’s share of that approach, people were still getting shot.

It ain’t the gun in the hand… it’s the hand the gun is in.

Of course, if everyone carrying more than 5 or so rounds in their coats, pants, socks, or where ever, have actually had to fire off 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, or more shots to keep breathing, well then of course, I stand corrected, in my contingency that one needs only a few shots when push comes to shove… not 20. But I could be very wrong, and have lived a very sheltered life.

 

[loadedround]

Ever hear the expression "spray and pray"? We are no longer a nation of riflemen upon which our nation was built. Consider the last statement to include pistols also..

 

[Mousegun]

Zombies, plain and simple

 

[Robert]

TLDNR

Ok, so from what I can gather from all that is you don't see the need to carry more than 5 or 6 rounds as you've only needed to fire 2 shots in a defense situation in the past. And that anyone carrying a weapon with more rounds makes one a mall ninja:

I’m guessing here too, those carrying guns with 12, 14, 17 or more rounds are also wearing Kevlar vests and Kevlar underoos!

Why go to the raNge at all? JUST BUY A BIGGER CLIP? Carry an extra pistol! Or three!

And you assume that just because someone chooses to carry a weapon with more then the NEEDED 2 rounds they must not place much importance on training.

If you expend all 5 rounds then what? Shall you two sit down and talk it out over tea? I would rather be prepared or have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.

But I could be very wrong

 

[baylorattorney]

Have you ever carried and shot with a handgun with a capacity of 15 or more rounds? It's fun. All your buddies are reloading some twice even and you are still firing.

 

[jad0110]

I suppose there is a capacity race of sorts going on. I've seen some shooters place capacity above all else (I know one guy who went with platform "A" even though he did significantly better with platform "B" because platform "A" held 10% more ammo).

But, to each his own. Everyone one must prioritize the features they desire in a weapon, and there are a LOT of them. Weight, length, width, grip angle, material, sights, balance, action, trigger feel, caliber, COST, reliability ... capacity. Some people place greater weight on capacity than others. For me, it is near the bottom, though I have used it as a tie breaker once or twice in the past.

It also depends on whether you believe the most common failure in a gunfight is running out of ammo or running out of time. The running out of ammo side will frequently gravitate towards the hicap gun. The running out of time side goes with whatever works most optimally for them, regardless of capacity (generally).

I've always been of the belief that the 1st shot will be the most important, so I'd better choose a gun that I can draw and fire accurately and quickly better than anything else. For me, that gun is a double action six shooter.

But for someone else it may be a 20 round XDM.

YMMV.

 

[NukemJim]

My limited understanding is that,

A) Attacks by more than one person occur greater than 50% of the time and are becoming more common.

B) "Hit ratio" of police, excluding specialty units, range from 1 out of 3 to 1 out of 4, i.e.

C) At least in my neck of the woods we have a social institution called "gangs" where bad boys, and occasionally girls, like to travel in groups when committing crimes.

Yes I do remember that a large number of DGUs do not involve firing, BUT are you willing to risk your life that yours will not?

As always I could be wrong.

NukemJim

 

[khegglie]

Why do people post questions asking about someones practices that is rife with criticizm and ridicule?

 

[JohnBT]

Why do you need more ammo than Barney Fife? One bullet was enough for him.

Of course, I'm not as good a shot as Barney, so I need more bullets. And they're fun to buy and can be a good investment if you get them on sale. And they come in compact little boxes and stack up so precisely in their little brightly colored containers. They're almost like Legos for grownups.

I'm working on completing my collection of 28 ga. ammo now.

 

[plunge]

this is going to turn into a big hate thread quickly i can see. i do mostly agree with the OP. a hi-cap pistol is fun for the range but for ccw i'd rather have a compact sized revolver that i am really good with than fat hi-cap pistol with a ton of bullets. thats just me, and i'm not saying i would absolutely not carry a hi-cap pistol, just that i believe a revolver would do fine for me

 

[eazyrider]

Well, I was a Marine in Iraq and although I was in a helicopter most of the time maybe I can speak with some experience. I have heard a lot, but the one thing I have never heard is "we have too much ammo".

 

[plunge]

thats also combat, not walking to walmart to pick up some milk. our combat load is 210 rounds for the M4, but we usually all have double combat loads. i have no need to carry 420 rounds back home.

 

[khegglie]

Good replies; I hope OP comes back and reads them.....

 

[ny32182]

What am I missing?

1) Ammo.
2) Ability to express a thought that requires one sentence in one sentence.

 

[smle41]

I see both sides of the issue.. I see that a lot (certainly not all) of the 'amazing, super-dooper' capacity is something of a 'hype' issue for some people, who are of the 'spray and pray' mentality. I do have good friends that live in areas that are rife with gangs and the line of thought is the ability to engage a larger number of assailants without reloading. However, my current thinking about my revolver is that I have 'competed' (informally, just with friends) at a local range where the target holder can be made to 'charge' you.. that thing comes fast, and I got off one good shot in the time it took for paper to reach me, making the other five in the cylinder kind of, well, 'iffy', if you know what I mean. Or, maybe I'm just too slow on the draw..
Interesting discussion, as I think there is perhaps, especially on the part of some, to be overly swayed by 'it holds more bullets' v. 'I can shoot / carry this well'.

 

[USAF_Vet]

The gun I chose as my CCW is a 12 round S&W 469. I don't expect that I'll ever need 12 rounds in any armed encounter. The Beretta M9 strapped to my hip while I was in the military held 15 rounds. How many were ever used in an armed encounter? Zero.

The number of rounds in the magazine wasn't the major driving factor in choosing the S&W, but I'll admit it was in the top five reasons.

1) Cost. I'm on a strict budget, with having a family to provide for, just about every dollar has a purpose. At this point in my life, I can't justify spending hundreds, or thousands on a tool that, God willing, won't see much use, save for the range.
2) Size. I'm a big guy, and the tiny micro pistols just don't cut it. Too small. The S&W is a compact, but I can still get a full grip on her. It'll be easy to conceal three seasons out of four.
3) Brand. I'm not a gun snob, but there are some brands that when you think of them, you realize they produce a quality product. S&W has gone down hill a bit in quality, but they are still leagues better than some in the price range, especially used.
4) Caliber. Could I carry a .22? Sure. I don't trust it will be effective in I ever need to deploy it. Smallest round for an auto loader I'd be comfortable with is 380. But I'd rather carry 9mm. Why? See reason #1.
5) Capacity. This goes hand in hand with #4. The less stopping power I feel a round has, the more of them I want to carry. I have a lot of faith in the 9mm (but my nightstand gun is still a .45).


Knowing what I know about the criminal mentality, a lot of them are cowards if confronted solo. A lot, not all. The gang elements understand strength in numbers, so do gun makers and gun users. A two shot .22 short derringer may be effective enough against one, maybe even two attackers. But I'm not going to put my life, or those of my family, on the line based on that assumption.

Now I'm no longer patrolling the streets of Baghdad or the wide open spaces of rural Iraq, so I don't need to carry a combat load, like Plunge alluded to above.

But, and this is ultimately where the buck stops for me, I'd rather be overly prepared for an event that nevers happens than be unprepared for an event that does.

 

[Konstantin835]

Its definitely not necessary to carry 50 rounds for CCW but I don't get the hate on high capacity handguns here. Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. If nobody ever saw the need to have higher capacity then we would still be using and carrying a Colt SAA or even a flintlock. Its an honest improvement and a logical next step in firearms design evolution. For a CCW some people may only need 1 or 2 rounds but when stress is elevated you're not going to shoot the same as at the range and even if you do hit the attacker the human body is complex and tough so the attacker may not go down, regardless of caliber which is when a little capacity isn't a bad thing. To each their own I suppose.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Maybe I'm crazy, I don't see the big deal about this at all. Sometimes I carry a glock 19 and a spare mag for a 17. Yep, that's 30+ rounds. The spare mag is mainly carried in case I have a malfunction in the first mag.

Other days (like today), I have a snub nosed 38 and a speed loader. That's 10 rounds.

I say we don't worry about how many other rounds the other guys here are carrying. It adds fuel to the anti's fiery rage about hi capacity handguns. You don't like high capacity handguns and that's fine. That's no reason to question other peoples' choices. Many of us practice often, regardless of what we carry.

 

[Husker_Fan]

Most of the time I carry a j-frame with an extra speed strip. That gives ten rounds. However, when I can and want to carry something larger I go for my hi-power. It came with one 13 round mag, and I got some 15 rounders on sale. I usually carry a spare magazine as well. I don't expect to need that many rounds, however, that is what the gun will hold, so I fill'er up.

I don't carry the hi-power for it's capacity. It is the gun I shoot best at speed and it carries very well. The second mag is for clearing a double feed or other malfunction in the unlikely event it would happen, not because I need more ammo. I also don't see it as the product of a capacity race either. My gun's design is over 75 years old.

 

[InkEd]

Carry what you prefer instead of questioning other people's choices.

FWIW I've carried from a 5-shot 442 to a 16+1 XD9. I find the large guns to bulky for most normal situations and usually carry a lightweight single-stack semi-auto.

 

[gearhead]

Feature creep. Marketing needs to match or beat the competition feature by feature. That's how people narrow down their choices for a purchasing decision, by mentally comparing all those features and product buzz.

This is also why today's minivans are larger than full-size rear-wheel drive truck-based vans were in the '70s...

 

[ForumSurfer]

I don't carry the hi-power for it's capacity. It is the gun I shoot best at speed and it carries very well. The second mag is for clearing a double feed or other malfunction in the unlikely event it would happen, not because I need more ammo. I also don't see it as the product of a capacity race either. My gun's design is over 75 years old.

I agree. My 19 is one of the most comfortable shooting handguns I've ever shot. It is a tie for me with a good 1911 with aggressive checkering on the front and back straps. With whatever I'm shooting, it is just silly to me not to carry as many rounds as the frame permits. I also like to have a reload for anything I carry because $%^& happens. It isn't necessarily a round count thing, it is more of a malfunction thing.

 

[cambeul41]

Flash mob

I live near, and work in, Detroit. This morning I saw on the internet a call for participants in a flash mob there, purpose unspecified. It could be the good type of flash mob that entertains. It could be the other kind.

In the face of a violent flash mob or gang attack, the "average number of shots fired" is absolutely irrelevant.

Semi-autos are more comfortable in my hand, and my carry gun has a 12-round magazine. I usually carry one spare magazine, but the news from Philadelphia and London have me considering another. I'll never notice the extra burden.

YMMV

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by blindjim: What am I missing?

Competent training, perhaps?

Due to merely poor vision I’ve stepped up my capacities to 10 rounds in both my Ruger KP 345, ...

I sincerely hope that you can see well enough to identify your target and to see what is behind it.

Past experiences show only one or two, perhaps at most, 3 or 4, shots ever get sent out to find their new nest by either attacker or attacked.

Not so, I'm afraid. The averages are low, but one cannot base the choice of risk mitigation on averages.

I think only the A Team needs a six thousande shooter.

What persuasive hyperbole!

Could it be the new market for gun sales is aimed primarily at those in the actual bidness of crime itself? Those engaged in it’s commission rather than it’s omission?

That's certainly not a serious question, I trust.

…and we need every bullet we can carry despite the fact the likelihood we’ll ever let one fly is about as remote as getting run over by the Short Bus?

Study the concept of conditional probability.

The chances are, you'll never draw your firearm. But if you have to....

My single stack 8 rd & 10 rd clips have proven to me it’s near impossible at first to fill them up to the top. Ouch! It’s going to be some sore thumbs....

Most of us use a tool these days.

So why tote an ammo dump and additional clips for Pete’s sake?

Anyone who has participated in any kind of relevant high-performance pistol training has been taught the importance of having to respond to a malfunction and that the first step in doing so is to drop the magazine and insert a new one very quickly.

One might reasonably conclude that that is the reason why people who do choose to carry extra magazines do so.

Fore see and/or avoid scenarios that put you at risk. Deploy and act appropriately and quickly.

Excellent advice.

Slam all your rounds into a 1, 2, or 3 inch group at 50ft or less, how come they need 17 bullets to do it with?

Another thing that anyone who has participated in any kind of relevant high-performance pistol training has been taught is that bullseye shooting at a range teaches very little about self defense encounters.

The skills that one needs include the following:

• The ability to draw, present, aim, and fire very rapidly...
• ...at multiple targets who are moving very rapidly...
• ...who are likely to keep coming even if hit once, or perhaps as many as two or three times each because it is impossibly to ensure optimal shot placement...
• ...when one is moving...
• ...and when one's skills are highly impaired du to the physiological and psychological effects of stress...
• ...before one is overcome by one or more assailants.

When I started carrying, I chose a short-barreled five shot .38 revolver. That was before I (1) learned that there is a high likelihood that an attack will involve more than one assailant; (2) learned that the one-shot stop is a myth; (3) figured out that it is very unlikely that the assailants will be anywhere near stationary; (4) took into account the effects of stress in a violent encounter; and (5) had participated in any relevant training.

It has been replaced.

I’m a bit confused.

I hope this has helped.

 

[waidmann]

I can appreciate everyones right to the occassional homily, some sarcasm included. I hate this time of year for the opposite reason. The work enviornment limits me to an LCP (pocket carry). Jacket weather thankfully allows for other options and then there is coat season! Whether one carries a hi-cap mag or a second mag, a .40, .45, or 9mm is a function of that wonderful thing we call freedom.