Why buy and/or carry so many bullets?

[khegglie]

I am not thin skinned and blindjim you are not funny

 

[MistWolf]

blindjim,

I'm not going to wade through all the responses and to be honest, my eyeballs rolled up into the back of my head about a third a way through your rant.

You're looking at this all wrong. You're saying "Why carry more than" what ever amount you think is appropriate "when you don't need it?" You don't know what I need. You don't know what anyone else needs but yourself, unless you're a socialist. (Socialists always know what everyone needs. That's the problem with socialists.) Frankly, I'm being generous. Your rant is "Anyone who carries more ammo than I think they need is stupid."

Folks should be prepared to deal with what situation may come their way. They are free to choose their tools to meet their needs. I know folks who have never needed even one shot to deal with crisis situations. I suppose that means they should carry no ammo or no firearms at all. No, what it means is you should stay in your narrow little lane, mind your own business and stop placing your limitations on others

 

[Ole Coot]

Carry what you personally feel comfortable with. I may carry more or less than you but it's my choice and glad to have it.

 

[ku4hx]

Why do people buy cars with 600HP engines? Why own more than one gun or two pairs of shoes? Why drink Pepsi and not Coke? Why this, why that, why in the world did I buy a black truck?????

I don't know. It's just the way we are.

 

[Fishslayer]

Part of me screams to keep at least one and several magazines because somebody is going to want to ban it one day.

"Somebody" already does...

 

[benEzra]

9mm firearms have been trading less bullet mass/frontal area for double-digit capacity since the 1930's, when the Browning Hi-Power came out. The Smith & Wesson Model 59 and the Beretta Model 92 (both 15+ rounds) date from the 1970's.

I understand if you prefer a .45 to a 9mm, and prefer less capacity to more; more power to you. But there is absolutely no call to level insults at those of us who choose differently.

FYI, for the NYPD, the average number of shots fired per gunfight was 10.3 for the period 1990-2000. The number of shots fired per officer is generally around 5.2, but the total number of shots necessary to stop the threat is probably more relevant for non-LEO defensive use since non-LEO's don't generally travel around in armed groups.

More details here: http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/AFDR200920101101.pdf

Only the "gunfight" statistics are relevant for discussion of magazine capacity, IMO. On a per-incident basis, here's the breakdown I'm seeing for 2009:

1 round, 36%
2 rounds, 13%
3 rounds, 11%
4 rounds, 9%
5 rounds, 15%
6 rounds, 6%
7 rounds, 4%
12 rounds, 2%
15 rounds, 2%
30 rounds, 2%

Also consider that (1) you want sufficient reserve such that pistol is still operational after the average defensive use, and (2) that sufficient capacity to cover the average incident isn't necessary sufficient for a substantial minority of incidents.

While most CCW holders have done much better than the NYPD's average 15% hit rate, carrying only 5 or 6 rounds is still too low to allow for adequate reserve and one or two standard deviations from the mean, particularly in cases in which there is more than one attacker. Finally, consider that in the case of a home invasion, the rounds in the magazine are likely all you will have.

And I don't know where you picked up your stereotypes from, but FWIW I have been an avid pistol shooter for going on a quarter-century now, and I shoot competitively in USPSA Production division. Sling insults all you want, but I do know my way around a 9mm, thanks.

 

[FourteenMiles]

Isn't the current trend for smaller pocket pistols with less capacity?

I think your rant is a few decades too late.

 

[Loosedhorse]

What is your response once the perp shoves a 38 into your ear, belly, back of the head or openly displays it standing 5ft away from you nervously demanding your goods or your life?

Whatever seems like it will get me out of that alive. That may or may not include cooperating, depending.

If I survive, I'll spend a LOT of time figuring out how in the heck I let that happen, so it doesn't happen again. Or FOUR TIMES!

For me to carry a concealed weapon I’d just about have to figure to be on guard the whole time

Yes. We call that living in Condition Yellow. You're correct: if you go around in Condition White, being armed is going to have far fewer advantages, and may even be a disadvantage. So, we live in Yellow. No big deal.

… probably with my hand in the weapon.

Why, exactly? Typical draw-aim-fire sequence takes 2 seconds, 1.5 if you practice (and I know some are faster). By having your hand on your gun, you probably trim it to 1 second. That's stll not going to beat a gun that's poitned at you.

Having your hand on the gun, by the way, can be easy: carrying in the pocket of a jacket in the cooler months, for example. You seem to consider both of these techniques--staying alert while armed and carrying where you can easily have your hand on the gun when needed--to be ridiculous or onerous, when in fact they are commonly practiced and employed.

Personally, I merely can not adequately support such a precept

You seem to have many assumptions:

1) That you will be taken completely by surprise by an armed attacker.
2) That submission will be the best option
3) That since you're going to submit, it's best not to be armed, or armed with just a few "bullets."

To the extent that others disagree with your assumptions, they will perhaps support "precepts" that you can't.

 

[goon]

Only the "gunfight" statistics are relevant for discussion of magazine capacity, IMO. On a per-incident basis, here's the breakdown I'm seeing for 2009:

1 round, 36%
2 rounds, 13%
3 rounds, 11%
4 rounds, 9%
5 rounds, 15%
6 rounds, 6%
7 rounds, 4%
12 rounds, 2%
15 rounds, 2%
30 rounds, 2%

If I'm reading this right, 90% of encounters requiring shots to be fired in self-defense have been be resolved in 6 rounds or less (for the NYPD).
At the same time, apparently sometimes even 30 rounds aren't enough... even for trained police officers who deal with violence on a more regular basis than most of us do and may be veterans of other shootings.
If an experienced cop can't deal with a every situation with less than 30 rounds available, how many of those of us who aren't confronted with such things on a daily basis could do any better?
Granted, the situations aren't quite the same. We can fight until we have the chance to escape then run for our lives, but police officers are going to have to stay and see things through til the situation is resolved.
Still... it should be enough to make anyone think.


At any rate, I think some of what blindjim is getting at - if I understood him right - is that he's been attacked several times and being armed with a high-capacity handgun hasn't helped him.
The reality is that sometimes maybe your gun won't help you at all - this is a point I get.
But if you don't carry a gun, it can't help.

 

[ForumSurfer]

Having your hand on the gun can be easy: carrying in the pocket of a jacket in the cooler months, for example.

You know, I've timed myself on a shot timer. I draw no faster from the pocket than I do from an IWB position with a cover garment. I never understood why the "hand on the gun" thoughts make some think it is faster. When I actually try it, it isn't noticeably faster. In fact, I was much slower if I had to reach in my pocket and draw, I sometimes carry in my pocket, but I don't do it for speed as I know it is potentially slower...for me anyway.

 

[Loosedhorse]

I never understood why the "hand on the gun" thoughts make some think it is faster.

Oh. That would because some of us have timed ourselves as well, and for us it came out faster to have the hand on the gun, even though for you it didn't.

 

[627PCFan]

While I do think this is a troll thread, I have been carrying an extra moon clip because of a local flash mob robbery. That being said Icarry a large frame 8 shot. I prefer the tactic of deterence. With the mob mentallity I havr increased what I carry due to my personal threat assessment. Do I plan on dumping 8, nope. Is it possible? sure. For a little while ill carry a extramoon but wont forever.I dont leave the house without some thought of where im going and the situation. Know your environment. Ifyour going to iraq plan zccordingly. Your mileage may vary

 

[mgmorden]

If an experienced cop can't deal with a every situation with less than 30 rounds available, how many of those of us who aren't confronted with such things on a daily basis could do any better?

MOST cops aren't presented with a shootout scenario "on a daily basis". The vast majority will serve their entirely careers never firing their weapon outside of practice, which for gun-savy cops could be a lot, but for less interested ones will generally be much less often than a firearms enthusiast.

All in all, while I don't think that the average citizen is a better shot than a cop, I'd suspect that the average person on a gun board like this who actually practices regularly, is probably a better shot than the AVERAGE cop.

I've never understood the public perception that the cop who has never been in a shootout and qualifies once yearly with his pistol is somehow more highly qualified than the regular citizen who practices 2-3 times per week. Must be those mystical cop powers at work.

NOTE: Don't take that as a slant against cops. I work in a county-level government with a lot of deputies and I know several who practice far more than most here and are EXCELLENT marksman, but on the whole, they're in the minority.

 

[Shienhausser]

^ agreed times 100.

Was going to say this earlier but decided not to.

 

[Justin]

This discussion isn't really going anywhere, and it seems fairly clear that the OP isn't really all that interested in an in-depth discussion on this topic given that he's failed to address many of the points raised in this thread.