Why can’t you load muzzleloader with smokeless powder?

I know that. I scout my land all year long. My property is 18 acres of brush and cedars, pretty thick. Deer are bedding here and generally just hanging out and I bump them sometimes when I walk down my path to the range area. I have very little in the way of mast, but lots of browse and cover. I tried this year with handgun. And didn’t have a clean shot. I only hunt my property, and because of that i am license exempt and no tags.

I have a friend that would let me shoot one off his corn pile. But..... I wouldn’t enjoy it any more than the deer.

Course, I don’t hunt every day all day. I still got work and family stuff even though I have deer out my door.

My point wasn’t that I’m not the best hunter, but that i would run the season different if they’d ask me.

Archery runs sep to Jan and modern gun is 2 weeks. With unlimited does and 1 antlered for my area. I suppose it’s off topic though. Then we get a week of ML a few weeks after modern gun ends. Anyways I guess it’s off topic.
 
Bazoo said:
Interesting replies. Thanks all.

I would think that the old timers would have experimented with this but I’ve not seen any in my readings.

I don’t own a ML currently, so no chance of me trying it. But I’ve had my buddies ML a few years for hunting and I got to thinking about why you can’t load it with smokeless.

I guess pressure testing it would be the big hiccup for safety.

I’m not a ML enthusiast, I’m a reloading enthusiast though. I wonder if quickloads could be programmed to estimate the pressure of a ML chamber with the seating depth variations. I don’t have QL either.
Click to expand...

I’ll bet there was just a little experimentation with smokeless and muzzleloading rifles back then but the cartridge guns were such a forward and upward leap that nobody probably thought to do the work necessary to do so safely. It would be a little like someone today trying to get their Commodore 64 to run the latest Apple operating system. Why would you?
 
Bazoo said:
If you can take a black powder era 45/70 trapdoor, and reload it safely with smokeless, why can’t you load a similar load in a muzzleloader.
Click to expand...
I don't condone or recommend it, but with an inline gun you can. I know many people that have been doing it for many years.
This information will undoubtedly cause panic and conniptions for some but it is a fact.
I won't post any info about the powder or charge weights. What they gain is accuracy, reduced cost, easy cleanup and, in some guns, velocity.

If you are really serious about it, order a rifle from one of the custom builders. They are expensive but incredibly accurate.
https://www.hankinscustomrifles.com/muzzleloaders/
 
hawg said:
Two weeks and unlimited does and you can't get two deer? We're allowed cartridge guns and smokeless powder but I've never taken advantage of it. Half the time during regular gun season I'm using my Hawken. You need to get out during the off season and learn where the deer go, how they get there etc. Hunting isn't just going out in the woods and hoping to spot a deer or luring them in with a feeder. You've got to learn them and that takes work. BTW cleaning a muzzleloader is less work than cleaning smokeless.
Click to expand...
Except you really NEED to clean a blackpowder weapon fairly soon after shooting it due to the black powder residue accelerating corrosion. Not to mention the need to at least clean the barrel every few shots just so you can load it. That is not true of smokeless powers I can go hundreds even a few thousand rounds and months if not years between cleanings with many of my smokeless gun.
 
mcb said:
Except you really NEED to clean a blackpowder weapon fairly soon after shooting it due to the black powder residue accelerating corrosion. Not to mention the need to at least clean the barrel every few shots just so you can load it. That is not true of smokeless powers I can go hundreds even a few thousand rounds and months if not years between cleanings with many of my smokeless gun.
Click to expand...

Fairly soon as in a few days. I can go a week or more.
 
mcb said:
Except you really NEED to clean a blackpowder weapon fairly soon after shooting it due to the black powder residue accelerating corrosion. Not to mention the need to at least clean the barrel every few shots just so you can load it. That is not true of smokeless powers I can go hundreds even a few thousand rounds and months if not years between cleanings with many of my smokeless gun.
Click to expand...
Most of the year I could probably postpone cleaning for a month or more. High desert so our relative humidity is very low. Also, our percussion caps aren’t corrosive. That’s a game changer.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Ruger proofed the Old Army by stuffing a cylinder full of Bullseye and shooting it, it didn't blow up, but that's a Ruger. Don't try it at home. There's an internet u tube video of a bonehead loading a remmie with smokeless powder using a spoon for a powder measure. It didn't blow up either, it's just a matter of time on that one. I don't recall what powder he was using.
Click to expand...
Ruger could do that because of round ball. Using heavier conical will create a hand grenade, see discussion on https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-revolvers-last.866073/page-3#post-11886691 , posts #51-#54
 
Well, I’ll have to think on it. It sounds like yes it’s doable but only with a lot of research. I wonder if trailboss would be a good candidate.
 
If someone provided me with free muzzleloaders, powder, projectiles and access to a facility/range where I could do the testing without endangering myself or others, I would start with Trailboss.

There is one more caveat.

Unless I:

1. Had official pressure specs for the muzzleloaders tested.
and
2. Could measure the pressure from the smokeless loads very accurately.
and
3. Found a combination of ML/powder/projectile that was very consistently safe, not just from testing with several different samples of the ML in question, but also based on the discharge pressure remaining under the spec for the gun.

...then I would NEVER provide any of the resulting load data to ANYONE under ANY circumstances, nor would I make a practice of even telling people about the experimentation unless I was absolutely sure that:

1. They fully understood the risks involved and weren't going to try something stupid themselves based on "encouragement/endorsement" from me.
and
2. They weren't going to tell someone else about the results and possibly unintentionally encourage that third party to do something that might cause property damage/injury.
 
Here's an 1858 Remington with a smokeless conversion cylinder that was overloaded.

Y3eTin9l.jpg

And a cap and ball Remington loaded with smokeless.

8Bw3SuZl.jpg
 
Muzzleloading Pressure, Recoil, and Velocity (chuckhawks.com)
Read this article about Lyman muzzle loader testing.
It's as clear as mud.
The problem is there are no standards for consistent MZ loads. Each mfr. has their own regs. on powder type and charges that should be followed. I was told to only use the powder and max. charge recommended by the manufacturer of my gun at the time my gun made. How many people have ever read their operator manual's recommended loads?
 
As said, the fun is seeing the smoke, and they don't take all that long to clean. Been doing it since 1970. At this time I shoot mostly Damascus barreled SxSs built in the late 1800s - Parkers, Remingtons, and Lefevers. I hand load BP or nitro in shotgun shells. It's really pretty safe and simple to do. Keep your loads in the 7 to 8000psi range maximum which are what BP loads produce, and you're good to go. Just about all the pressures in a shotgun shell are developed within the shell, or the first inch or so. There are many, many published and tested loads in those ranges, some as low as 5000psi. If one could do the same thing with a BP pistol or rifle, have at it. I just don't see the reason to do it. I do with the shotgun because I shoot 100 or more shells three times a week. Using BP all the time, the cost alone would be out of my budget. It takes 80 to a 90 grains of smoke per shell. If I went to 3F and 70grs, that's only 100 shots per pound. My nitro loads take 17grs per shot.

Anyways, I shoot BP because I like doing things the way they use to do it. It's a bit more of a challenge when hunting, you get to see some smoke, and you get to clean your gun when you're done. :) You don't shoot that day, put it away and clean it after you do get a shot. And shooting more than one or two times without cleaning between shots ? I've shot unlimited number of times in one day at matches by running a greased patch down the barrel after every shot. You can reuse the cleaning patch by carrying it between the barrel and ramrod. You're not cleaning the barrel per say, but keeping the fouling soft enough to reload again. Some of you guys have a lot to learn. :cool:
 
Actually I’m interested in the reloading and ballistic aspect. One of the main reasons I’m interested in guns is reloading.

Yes muzzleloader is a way to extend my season. But if I could load it with smokeless I’d be inclined to shoot it for fun. Like I do my 30-30.

But so far, cleaning it takes an hour. And it’s an hour of pretty hard work. Scrubbing constantly. Then, checking it several days and often times recleaning when rust is found.
 
Bazoo said:
But so far, cleaning it takes an hour. And it’s an hour of pretty hard work. Scrubbing constantly. Then, checking it several days and often times recleaning when rust is found.
Click to expand...

You definitely aren't doing something right. It only takes a few passes with a bore mop with hot soapy water to clean out bp fouling and you can leave out the hot and the soap. If it's that hard to clean you're using petroleum based products for lube or you're using smokeless cleaners. I clean mine and it's done. No checking for rust because there isn't any.
 
bearcreek said:
Savage actually made a muzzleloader for a while that was designed to use smokeless powder. I've never seen one in person though.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine in Indiana, has one I don't know powder or charge but he shoots it at 200 yards.
 
In your inital post, you had mentioned a comparison between a 45-70 loaded with a low pressure charge of smokeless vs the muzzloading rifle using smokeless, as obvious as it seems, I must point out that the ' Black powder' only roll mark on the barrel of the muzzloader is their for a reason. Certainly some one has dumped some smokless in and lived to spout the benefits of it. Pressure, metallurgy and interior ballistics are actually pretty well established as constants exist. When a new variable is introduced, everything changes. Even the difference between case manufacturers with different actual weights can and does increase pressure.
You of course are free to do exactly as you desire, but I certainly hope, that what ever range you go to isnt one I would frequent
Above in the commentary, a gentleman mentioned several things that will help in cleaning your muzzloading firearm, and get it done more effectively and timely as well. Perhaps something along those lines may deter a potentially hazardous event.
 
Everyone can breath easy. I shoot on my personal range. And I don’t intend on loading smokeless in a BP arm just yet. I’m just researching it. The video of the guy loading his pietta Remington copy, that offers some insight. Perhaps that is a way to safely go about it. However I don’t have a cap and ball revolver or quickloads at present. I most likely will never try it myself, but I still have an interest in it.

Conversely I have an interest in using BP in non BP cartridge guns such as 30-06. I’ve seen where folks would use them in an M1 garland and get 3 shots before Fouling became so bad it wouldn’t function.

The point is, my research covers the spectrum, regardless of my dislike of BP cleaning.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Snidely70431
  • Locked
Discussion about Muzzleloading Pressure, Recoil, and Velocity posted in chuckhawks.com
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
Eyrie G. Dogg
Eyrie G. Dogg
C
  • Locked
Ball bearing loaded in a sabot and other muzzleloader myths?
Replies
7
Views
3K
Freedom in theSkies
F
Snidely70431
  • Locked
Smokeless powder in a muzzle loader - how to destroy some nice rifles
2
Replies
45
Views
5K
Snidely70431
Snidely70431
WestKentucky
  • Locked
Why no smokeless muzzleloaders?
2
Replies
37
Views
4K
raa-7
raa-7
O
  • Locked
What would happen if smokeless powder were loaded like black powder
Replies
22
Views
2K
MEHavey
MEHavey
Back
Top