Why can't this be made

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stogiegila

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Why can't any of the gun manufacturers make a pocket size or slightly larger gun with the following features:

9mm
Single stack
Polymer frame
NO SAFETIES
NO DAO long traveling heavy trigger pull
Striker fired

This would be my ideal carry pistol. So far the only thing I have found close is the Kahr CM9 but it does have an exceptionally long travel to the trigger however the trigger weight is satisfactory and the pull is smooth

If the Glock G42 would have been in 9mm, my prayers would have been answered, although I could still do without the stupid safe trigger on the Glocks as well.

I believe the only safety my gun needs is me. I know to keep my finger off the trigger. Give me a 5-7lbs smooth trigger no blades or safeties with a reasonable length of travel and reset. What is so hard with that?

As much as I like Glocks, I'm a small guy and the G26 is still very large in my hands and I have to adjust my grip in order to engage the safety on the trigger, which I shouldn't have to. The G42 is a nice size but .380. I'd like to see if the recoil would be manageable in 9mm on a gun this size.

If the Kahr's trigger travel was shorter it would fit the bill nicely.

Am I asking too much? Why do the manufacturers feel that the smaller the gun the harder it needs to be to shoot?

Sorry just needed to vent.
 
Dang, you seem to be REALLY close to the new Remington R51.

I don't think the grip safety would "count" as you can't help but disengage it as you grip the gun. There's nothing BAD about having a safety of some kind, so long as it is unobtrusive. (I don't think any guns, save DA revolvers and guns that use identical trigger pulls, truly have NO safeties. Certainly none in common use that anyone carries.)

It isn't polymer, but the weight of that very slimmed down alloy frame is going to be probably not an ounce of difference off what a polymer frame would be.

The trigger should definitely appeal to you.

9mm, check.

Single-stack, check.

Striker fired? Well, as far as you'd be concerned, yes. (It isn't, but the hammer is completely internal, so that's identical to striker fired for your purposes.)

Worth a try!
 
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The Bersa BP9CC meets every criteria you mention, with the exception of a safety. It has a magazine safety and it has a keyhole safety.

It is just above pocket sized, think kahr cw9 or shield sized.

I haven't shot one, but I've handled a couple and I was impressed.

I like how thin the grip is, but the slide seems that it should be a bit thinner for what it is.



The walther pps is very close to your criteria as well. They're pretty elusive. I've never had the chance to even handle one.
 
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but I really dont care for how the slide looks reminds me of the wolverine.
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You say that like it's a BAD thing! :eek:

But, regardless, the OP didn't mention anything about aesthetics, so I don't know how that answers his question.
 
I'd guess that manufacturers don't want the liability of what appears to function as a single action pistol that you can't lock down.

Can't you just buy a Glock and superglue the trigger safety in its 'off' position?
 
Dang, you seem to be REALLY close to the new Remington R51.

I don't think the grip safety would "count" as you can't help but disengage it as you grip the gun. There's nothing BAD about having a safety of some kind, so long as it is unobtrusive. (I don't think any guns, save DA revolvers and guns that use identical trigger pulls, truly have NO safeties. Certainly none in common use that anyone carries.)

It isn't polymer, but the weight of that very slimmed down alloy frame is going to be probably not an ounce of difference off what a polymer frame would be.

The trigger should definitely appeal to you.

9mm, check.

Single-stack, check.

Striker fired? Well, as far as you'd be concerned, yes. (It isn't, but the hammer is completely internal, so that's identical to striker fired for your purposes.)

Worth a try!
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Sam. I was reading about the Remington R51. Other than it looking like a futuristic ray gun and the grip safety (which I never cared for on my 1911s) it might be something to consider. I believe they come out sometime in February.

S&W shield?
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Taro, the Shield comes with a safety. I wish you could order one without, it is also too big for pocket carry but might work IWB appendix as it is nice and thin. I almost pulled the trigger on one except the safety and its size killed it for me.


The Bersa BP9CC meets every criteria you mention, with the exception of a safety. It has a magazine safety and it has a keyhole safety.
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Jon...the Bersa is way to big for what i'm looking for. The max size I have in mind is the size of the Shield

How about the SA XDs 9mm?
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Easy...SA XDs have multiple safeties (i.e. trigger and grip safety). I actually owned on and it was the only other gun other than the Keltec that I truly hated. It just wasn't for me and I couldn't shoot it for beans.


Can't you just buy a Glock and superglue the trigger safety in its 'off' position?
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Clean, I actually was thinking of trying to tape down the trigger blade on the G26. As much as I like the Glock it is still very large in my small hands, but I was seriously thinking of taping the blade down but had reservations over it...lol I like your thinking though
 
What's wrong with a safety? If you want a pocket pistol, you have to realize that your finger isn't the only thing that can pull a trigger. However, if you really feel that a safety is not needed, simply don't use it. It's not that hard.
 
Chaos

The gun is always in a holster so nothing can pull the trigger other than my finger. I don't like the idea of a safety on a carry gun. It's one more thing to worry about

I've read of instances where people carried a gun with the safety off only to pull the hi. Out at the end of the day and discovered it was turned on. That could be dangerous

I have carried 1911s where I discovered the thumb safety got flipped off while I was carrying. Not worth the additional risk in my book

If there was a way to shorten the trigger travel on the Kahr I would be very happy
 
stogiegila said:
Chaos

The gun is always in a holster so nothing can pull the trigger other than my finger. I don't like the idea of a safety on a carry gun. It's one more thing to worry about

I've read of instances where people carried a gun with the safety off only to pull the hi. Out at the end of the day and discovered it was turned on. That could be dangerous

I have carried 1911s where I discovered the thumb safety got flipped off while I was carrying. Not worth the additional risk in my book

If there was a way to shorten the trigger travel on the Kahr I would be very happy
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It's possible for it to come out though.

But that's not really the point. If you don't want to use a safety, I'm not going to say that you are in the wrong. That's up to you, it's your job to be safe, and if you feel that you can be safe without a safety, it's certainly not my place to argue that.

However, I think you can see my point, and most people might like a safety on a gun. Considering the idea that a safety can be glued in place if you really want to, or removed, in many cases, I think there would be very little market for a gun with no safety. That's why that gun isn't made.
 
I don't like the idea of a safety on a carry gun. It's one more thing to worry about

I've read of instances where people carried a gun with the safety off only to pull the hi. Out at the end of the day and discovered it was turned on. That could be dangerous

I have carried 1911s where I discovered the thumb safety got flipped off while I was carrying. Not worth the additional risk in my book
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I can see those worries with a manual safety that you must remember to engage or disengage, but the Glock style safety is not one that you actually need to think about.
And the same goes for the XD grip safety.
Those two safeties are always on until you grip the pistol and pull the trigger, and then they're always off.
There's nothing to think about, which is the very point of those types of safeties.

And I've never heard of either of those safeties ever failing.
I think your fears are unfounded.
 
I have never been a big fan of DA autos so believe me when I say the trigger pull on the Kahr PM-9 is very smooth and really not all that long. I found that within a fairly short period of time I had become quite proficient and very comfortable with the DAO trigger design of the Kahr.
 
To me grip safeties are a total waste but something I could deal with. Same as the trigger safety. My problem with the trigger safety on the Glock is that I need to change my grip in order to engage the safety blade as the grip is too wide and my hands too small

The PPS seems to be a large but thin gun. I'm still looking into the G42 as it is small enough for me to easily handle it without problems. I just wish it was 9mm

But my point is are these safeties really needed? sig doesn't have any but they are just too big and heavy for CCW purposes. I've tried them all but prefer polymer striker fired as they are the most comfortable
 
But my point is are these safeties really needed?
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Well, just about every manufacturer, designer, and purchaser of defensive sidearms has felt that they were, going back over 100 years.

Are they REALLY? Well, I guess that all depends. If you never have the kind of mistake, accident, or negligence that they're built to arrest, then no. If you ever do, then yes.

You roll the dice and you take your chances. Of course, if you're wrong, others may have to live with the repercussions too, so think hard about it.
 
I have yet to even see a wealthier PPS in my are

Sam
My point is Glock only has the trigger safety. sig has none but goes with DA/SA triggers which I can deal with but as size goes down safeties go up unnecessarily.

For example why does e the Sig P290 need such a heavy long DAO trigger?
 
Why won't companies make concealable slim profile firearms that are practical to use I don't know.
 
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Understand that the following is not my cup of tea, but never the less it is not my place to dictate what stogiegila should like or do. I will also say that it is highly unlikely any maker would market what he is asking for.

Between the two world wars (1919 – 1939) Shanghai, China was one of the most violent places on the planet. Its Municipal Police were equiped with .380 or .45 Colt automatics. The .380’s were issued to Oriental officers and the larger .45 to Anglo ones.

Weapons and weapon training was assigned to William E. Fairbairn, who later became famous for his part in the design and development of the Fairbairn-Sykes commando knife. In any case he felt automatic pistols of that day were overloaded with safeties – especially manual ones.

So he had the frames on the .380 pistols altered by adding a small screw that blocked the manual safety in the off position. Hopefully those members who follow Jeff Cooper’s Modern Technique of the Pistol won’t have a cow.

Now if one wishes to, it is no trick to block the grip safety of any 1911 platform pistol in the “off” position, and the safety lock (manual safety) has been addressed above.

I am sure many members will strongly object to all of the above, and I will be most understanding. That said, it worked for Fairbairn, and he wasn’t exactly inexperience when it came to gunfighting.
 
If you're not set on a polymer frame pistol, HK P7M8. Mine is my regular carry, and was my work backup when I still worked uniform patrol.

-Jenrick
 
Maybe I missed something but it sounded like the OP described the DB9.



HK P7M8 is my nightstand gun, I love that it is so safe, no locked & cocked issues, no manual safety to flick up or down, no DA/SA trigger issues.

Great gun, I totally love it.
 
I don't think any guns, save DA revolvers and guns that use identical trigger pulls, truly have NO safeties. Certainly none in common use that anyone carries.
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They still have safeties -- the modern ones anyway, either of the rebounding hammer or transfer bar type, to allow you to carry a live round under the hammer. Earlier double actions, like the S&W Frontier Double Action, lacked this feature, and had to be carried with the hammer down on an empty chamber, just like a Colt Single Action Army, otherwise the gun was likely to go off if dropped.
 
C0untZer0 said:
Maybe I missed something but it sounded like the OP described the DB9.



HK P7M8 is my nightstand gun, I love that it is so safe, no locked & cocked issues, no manual safety to flick up or down, no DA/SA trigger issues.

Great gun, I totally love it.
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+1 on the P7. Small, thin, flat, single stack, outstanding trigger, short reset, no safety, superb accuracy, absolute reliability. True, the frame is not made of recycled soda bottles, but so what? There is more to a carry gun than plastic frames and lousy triggers.
 
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