Why can't this be made

Status
Not open for further replies.
Boberg strikes me as having just 'way too complicated a mechanism for some thing I'd want to really trust (people say that about autos in the first place, and this thing strikes me as being as much more complicated than a normal auto as a normal auto is beyond a revolver).
 
get a shield, click the safety off. boom done

Not so simple really.

If you have a CCW with a manual safety, you should train to sweep that safety off every time, should you have to present.
 
get a shield, click the safety off. boom done

I'm a lefty, and the Shield is a non-starter because I can't flip the safety off without letting go of a shooting grip on the gun. Really wish S&W either sold a Shield with either an ambidextrous safety or no thumb safety.
 
There are only two things that determine whether or not a gun can be manufactured:

1. Is the gun technically sound and safe?
2. Is there a market for it at the price the technology will demand?
 
Well I got my hands on the Walther PPS yesterday and I will say that it feels smaller than the dimensions would make you think. Picture a G26 cut in half width wise. However, height and length are pretty much even with the G26.

Saying that, I found that the PPS is better looking in person than the pictures indicate. The thinner grip allows me to easily engage the trigger safety which has always been an issue with Glocks as I have very small hands.

The gun definitely needs a Hogue grip or something though. In terms of overall feel, I still prefer the Kahr CM9. If fits my hand perfectly and has a nice solid feel to it. The Kahr also feels a bit heavier but its actually is lighter. This may be due to the smaller profile.

The Kahr is significantly shorter in length and slightly shorter in height. Width is insignificantly different.

I like everything about the Kahr except for the long trigger travel. The trigger is light enough and smooth enough but goes a long way before the trigger break.

The Walther's trigger is very Glock like but the break is a little harder. I believe it is rated at 6lbs versus the Glock's 5.5lbs but the PPS definitely takes more push to break the trigger but it is still very usable and light. I have never been the type to try and stage a trigger. I shoot for defensive purposes and not accuracy. Combat effectiveness is more important to me than a bullseye so staging a trigger was never a big deal.

I haven't shot the PPS yet but reviews I have read indicated that its supposedly a mild shooter. I find the Kahr very easily to shoot with just a slightly stronger recoil than the G26.

When I need to grap something I'd still go with the Kahr first. Mine has been 100% reliable through 500 rounds of mixed ammo. But at least I now have something comparable in size in case the Kahr breaks down. I like that the PPS doesn't have any manual safeties and has a light trigger. I just don't like heavy DAO. I can live without the trigger safety but that is a minimal inconvenience and much less of a problem with the PPS vs the Glock.

I still plan on checking out the Remington R51 when they get released but at least for now I think i'm covered.
 
Saying that, I found that the PPS is better looking in person than the pictures indicate.

Walther makes good looking pistols. The fit & finish of their pistols (P99, PPQ, and PPS) seems light years ahead of most other polymer guns (Glocks, Rugers, and M&Ps, for example). Something about Walther plastic seems so much nicer than that of other makers. None of that mold flashing you sometimes see on other polymer guns.


The Walther's trigger is very Glock like but the break is a little harder. I believe it is rated at 6lbs versus the Glock's 5.5lbs but the PPS definitely takes more push to break the trigger but it is still very usable and light.

It is well known that new PPS triggers can start out a bit firm and gritty. They will break in nicely over 200 rounds or so.
 
There is a newer version of the PM9 with a shorter trigger. Unfortunately it also has a very small safety lever.

The new trigger is shorter than the current "elite" trigger by 1/8". They call it the "enhanced" trigger.

But if you like Kahrs maybe the safety can be dealt with somehow...

(actually it was apparently first announced over two years ago...but I'm a little late to the party)
 
what's so hard about manipulating a safety? all it takes to learn is dryfire. 120 years ago, everybody had to thumb back a hammer for every shot fired. If you think that fast hits can't be had that way (using the weak hand thumb to cock it, search youtube for 10 shots with 2 guns, drawing one at a time, reholstering the first one. 3.7 seconds. TGO once posted sub 5 second times on a 5 pin (bowling) match 25 ft, start gun held at low ready, using full bore 240 gr jhp factory ammo in a 7.5" Ruger Blackhwawk. that 3" wide target (for taking the pin cleanly off of the table) is like shooting at men at 35 yds. :) very few can average faster than that, with a 1911 or glock.

A few of us can make sub 1.0 second, real deal CCW draw and hits, at 5 yds, from under a hung out T shirt, with a cocked and locked compact 1911. Just need a speed safety, learn to leave your thumb atop it while firing, have have a "memory groove" Ducktail grip safety. I've Tig welded ducktail tangs onto Stars, P35's, and one PPK.
 
So far everyone seems to answer (insert my favorite gun here) almost meets all that.

The short answer is no manufacturer could buy enough liability insurance to sell the gun you want. No safety, short light trigger, it's just a negligent discharge waiting to happen. And although I don't know you at all anyone that was asking me personally for that type of carry pistol I would want to stay well away from, someone is just looking for an accidental shooting with that.
 
EDC

+1 on the Boberg 9MM Shorty. Can't say enough good things. Hundreds of rounds down the pipe, and at worst with new NATO rounds from Turkey, a failure(hard primer) to fire with first DAO pull, but fired on second pull. That 3.35 barrel in a pistol of that size is a "game changer". Pricey but worth it.
 
I'm not sure why you think the boberg's slightly longer barrel is a game changer. All the chrono tests I've seen with that pistol seem to suggest there is precious little gained.

See eg http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-679374.html

Do those look like noteworthy performance gains to you? Do you think they will have any kind of significant effect on terminal ballistics im typical instances?
 
So far everyone seems to answer (insert my favorite gun here) almost meets all that.

The short answer is no manufacturer could buy enough liability insurance to sell the gun you want. No safety, short light trigger, it's just a negligent discharge waiting to happen. And although I don't know you at all anyone that was asking me personally for that type of carry pistol I would want to stay well away from, someone is just looking for an accidental shooting with that.

This is just utter nonsense.

Basically all the OP was asking for is a single stack version of the plethora of striker fired, polymer framed, double stack guns out there.

It has been pointed out that A) the PPS is that. It has existed for years and is a solid gun and perfectly safe given that one uses proper gun handling. If one cannot do that then there is no gun that is safe. B) the shield has a small safety but a great many of its users never engage it. Is it some how unsafe?

What makes what the OP is asking for so unsafe and such a liability? Again he simply wants a single stack version of any number of guns that already exist. Are the following guns unsafe? Glock, FN FNS, Steyr M series, S&W MPs, Walther PPQ, etc. If they are not unsafe how would a single stack version of them be unsafe?

Glock just made what he is asking for save in 380? Is the glock 42 unsafe? If it was made to be a 9x19 would that somehow all of the sudden make it an inherently dangerous weapon design?
 
Just received my Bersa bp9cc, pretty much has what ur lookin for. With all my research and thank those honest opinions from those who actually reviewd the pistol persuaded me to get one, very happy with my first cc
 
You want a H&K P30, with the LEM light, V1 trigger. Only smaller. That is my next gun, and a member here has 2 up for sale. I am just weighing my options for the next day or two. But there is your short DAO 4.5-4.7 lb trigger. No safety on the V1 Light LEM. It's 9mm 40 0r 45.Is that too large for you? It's not pocket pistol. I have a PM9 and an XDS which fit that role nicely, either will fit a remora holster, for front pocket carry. Next step for me is the Glock 26, then the 30 in that order before reaching for something larger. The 26 will conceal pretty well and if you wanted a Shield, a good gunsmith could get rid of that safety, I would think. There is also the LC9, "which I sold" but that may work for you. The trigger was terrible as far as wobble goes, even with a replacement from Galloway. "Nina Pinta and the Santa Maria", one of these new little guns should be ok. When I started shooting it was either 5 or 6 rounds and "do you want fries with that.
 
.... I was seriously thinking of taping the blade down but had reservations over it...lol I like your thinking though

Those "reservations" may have been some of the most important thoughts that ever went through your mind. They potentially saved life, limb, and the brightness of your future. To anyone reading this never tape down the trigger safety on a Glock.
 
Why won't companies make concealable slim profile firearms that are practical to use I don't know.

Glock 42.....not in the 9mm that many wanted but my Wife has found exactly what she wanted in the Glock 42. Slim, simple, practical, accurate. She shot her own for the first time today and I have never seen her shoot so good or feel so good about her ability to defend herself.

I'm guessing a similar pistol in 9mm will be available from Glock as soon as they get a handle on delivering enough 42's which are selling like hotcakes and will sell even more when people see others shooting them.

My Wife allowed 2 other women to shoot hers at the range and *both* of them lit up like a they had just found religion. I'd guess there will be similar pistols in 9mm real soon...there is the XD-S pistols. Slim polymer frame simple accurate guns...unless the grip safety offends.

VooDoo
 
"I'm not sure why you think the boberg's slightly longer barrel is a game changer. All the chrono tests I've seen with that pistol seem to suggest there is precious little gained."

The 'game change' is that the sub micro Boberg has vastly more pleasant and controllable recoil than any other pistol near its size. He has a 45acp version coming out that I think is very nearly the same size, but is apparently capable of rocking 460 Rowland :what: if you really want to.

To the OP (if he's even still watching :rolleyes:) I would submit the R51 is the closest current-production gun to what you seek (an Al frame rather than poly, but with so much paint covering you'll never notice the different :p), but I would not recommend buying it now unless you have made yourself very familiar with the gun's anatomy, operation, and (numerous) known issues from the factory. I tore my gun apart at the store and looked it over for a good half hour before timidly betting on it, and at this point I think the only potentially important issue is the very rough chamber (thankfully it's also undersized, so I can ream it to spec and clean it up), but it would be very easy to fall for a lemon right now with out a lot of scrutiny on the part of the buyer.

Shooting it today was pretty much everything I hoped it would be (I've never fired a pistol anywhere close to as fast as I was blasting the R51, but it was still very controllable, if not very accurate in my unpracticed, flinch hands). My biggest regret is that the gun only has a 7 round capacity, so the fun lasts only so long :(

TCB
 
The 'game change' is that the sub micro Boberg has vastly more pleasant and controllable recoil than any other pistol near its size

Out of curiosity which pistols specifically are you comparing it to?
 
My opinion of the Boberg, is that I don't trust any gun that may pull the bullet from the casing when I need it. The market won't accept this gun at it's present price point, it doesn't do anything special, other than give you an extra round, and I don't like the ergo's. It is too brick like for me. If I had my choice I would take my XDS, or a Kimber Ultra, for that price. In 9 there are just too many better choices for half the price.
 
Well I think I may have found something to fit most of what I am looking for. I got my hands on a P229 DAK. So far I am very happy with this. It is a bit heavy but I have a couple of holsters that seem to hold it close to me very well.

To date it is one of the most accurate pistols for me.

I've definitely come to the conclusion that I do not like trigger safeties.
 
Americans say patience is a virtue. When Glock comes out with single-stack 9mm you can get NY trigger and some Krazy glue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top