Why do neo-liberals hate guns?

[RPCVYemen]

Are you saying we should infringe on their first amendment rights to pray in school?

It always amazes me that folks who can debate and understand minutiae of NICs cannot distinguish between Constitutionally protected prayer and using tax payer funded facilities to compel others to pray. Certainly the Mormons and Catholics who sued in the Santa Fe case were not in any way trying to block anyone's right to pray! They simply wanted their children not to be coerced into prayer at a taxpayer funded school event in a taxpayer funded stadium using taxpayer funded resources.

What part of "no law respecting" do you not understand? You cannot collect taxes and use those taxes to compel people to pray.

As long as those who argue steadfastly for the 2nd Amendment are so willing to casually dismiss other amendments, why would a "neo-liberal" - or any thinking person - believe that support of the 2nd implies support of any of the other?

Mike

 

[RPCVYemen]

According to your definition, the president and president-elect are Christian theocrats.

With regard to their stance on religious limitations on civil marriage, I would agree with you that they are profoundly wrong. They are, however, better on most of the other issues.

I also have grave reservations as to the president elect's position with regard to "faith based initiatives". In Bush speak, "faith based initiatives" are obvious nothing more or less than an attempt to use Federal tax money to proselytize for (mostly white) evangelical Christian churches. I do fear that the president elect will do the same for mostly black Christian churches. Both are an anathema to me.

I am not sure what this discussion has to do with the topic at hand. I don't think of the president elect or the vice president elect as staunch supporter of the RKBA. I expect that their policies in this area will be more more guided by political expediency - namely the desire to retain control of Congress - than by any deep respect for the 2nd Amendment.

Mike

 

[Clint C]

I am a liberal and I don't want to get rid of guns, but I am a working class person and I need my job to feed my family. When a republican is in office I lose my job and then have to sell my guns to feed my kids.

I don't understand why you people vote for republicans, when all they do is ruin the economy and you can't aford guns and ammo anyways.

Look at our history line of presidents, republicans are horrible presidents.

While all the "foil hats" are worried about losing their machine guns we have lost so many of our other rights.

If republicans did'nt have the power of gun rights on their side no one would vote for them but rich selfish people.

I guess what I am trying to say is liberals don't want to take away your guns as much as you think they do, but want to preserve the rest of your rights more.

You all should quit stereotyping liberals the way you do and bring up the individual that wants to take away your guns. It would be alot more productive.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

It always amazes me that folks who can debate and understand minutiae of NICs cannot distinguish between Constitutionally protected prayer and using tax payer funded facilities to compel others to pray. Certainly the Mormons and Catholics who sued in the Santa Fe case were not in any way trying to block anyone's right to pray

you wrote

to listen to their prayers in public school.

I don't think we should force people to pray in school, but we certainly shouldn't stop them.

guess what I am trying to say is liberals don't want to take away your guns as much as you think they do, but want to preserve the rest of your rights more.

They are the ones that want to take away the first amendment, with the fairness doctrine. Neither party seems to care much about the 4th amendment. At least the conservatives value the second amendment.(And first)

for (mostly white) evangelical Christian churches. I do fear that the president elect will do the same for mostly black Christian churches.

Why does the color of people's skin matter?

I am not sure what this discussion has to do with the topic at hand.
I don't think of the president elect or the vice president elect as staunch supporter of the RKBA. I expect that their policies in this area will be more more guided by political expediency - namely the desire to retain control of Congress - than by any deep respect for the 2nd Amendment.

Clinton didn't seem too concerned about it.

am a liberal and I don't want to get rid of guns, but I am a working class person and I need my job to feed my family. When a republican is in office I lose my job and then have to sell my guns to feed my kids.

When a liberal is in power, I am usually in the worst shape. Jimmy Carter was terrible, Reagan was great, Bush jr. was okay Clinton was good after 1994-95, and Bush has been terrible ever since he's gone left. It's gotten even worse since the liberals got control of congress.

I am not sure what this discussion has to do with the topic at hand

.
Me neither, let's get back to the original question.

 

[pharmer]

Liberals hate guns because the represent self-reliance. They think dependence on gov't is essential for "harmony" on the planet. Joe

 

[JImbothefiveth]

I think it might also have to due with placing the blame for crime on something other than criminals. If it's not societys fault, it has to be the gun's fault! If not that, knives are to blame.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Whoops, double post

 

[RPCVYemen]

Why does the color of people's skin matter?

That was precisely my point - Democrats funneling taxpayer funds to black churches under the guise of "faith based initiatives" is as much an anathema to me as Republicans funneling taxpayer funds to white churches. But I think I already said that.

Clinton didn't seem too concerned about it.

And he got deservedly spanked - and Howard Dean and Rahm Emmanual paid a heck of a lot of attention.

Mike

 

[Owen Sparks]

Many people are under the misconception that the political spectrum is a straight one demensional left/right line. There is another line that goes from totalitarian statism on one end to freedom and individual liberty on the other. Check out this link
http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html to see where you fit in the political spectrum.

 

[AKGuy]

I'm still trying to figure out how a post premised on political ideas and political terminology is supposed to be kept "non political." Not to mention the fact that it is phrased using classic "When did you stop beating your wife" wording. And I'm also trying to figure out how people can profess confusion as to how "gun control" and "Democrat" and "liberal" came to be (erroneously) regarded as virtually synonymous when the same comingling serves as a premise of the post.

That having been said...

It's full-on baloney to say that "neo libs hate guns." In my experience as a gun-totin' huntin' fishin' liberal, most gun stuff (pro AND con) has a lot to do with duping people into one thought-camp or another. Folks on both sides L-O-V-E to resort to the good ole standby tactic of trying to force people into one extreme camp or the other without regard to the fact that the fallacy of false alternatives CAN quite successfully be dumped wholesale, and focus subsequently be placed on looking at the entire range of alternatives, not just the two extremes.

 

[benEzra]

While all the "foil hats" are worried about losing their machine guns we have lost so many of our other rights.

Clint C, I'd like to point out that machineguns have been tightly controlled since 1934 and new production banned since 1986. You're not thinking of "assault weapons," are you? Losing that fight would indeed be a disaster for the RKBA, IMO.

FWIW, this AK owner has more posts on Democratic Underground than I do here, and the top 3 forums I participate in are THR, DU, and HuffPo. It is a big tent here, and I am glad of it. The civility in this thread is another reminder of why I like THR so much.

 

[HeavenlySword]

AK guy, keep in mind what most liberals consider 'reasonable' (assault weapon ban) is hardly reasonable by our standards, or indeed, the standards of most open minded, knowledgeable people.

In fact, it can be argued banning new machine guns was a big hit against RKBA....

 

[KBintheSLC]

I disagree with the notion that more people are sheep, though. I'd argue the opposite it happening, thanks to the Internet. More information + more communication = more free thought. That's why China is so restrictive of Internet access.

We can add Australia to that list of restricted information zones... not too long after they effectively dismantled their version of the 2nd Amendment.

... and the house of cards proceeds to collapse

 

[HeavenlySword]

AK guy, keep in mind what most liberals consider 'reasonable' (assault weapon ban) is hardly reasonable by our standards, or indeed, the standards of most open minded, knowledgeable people.

In fact, it can be argued banning new machine guns was a big hit against RKBA....

 

[HeavenlySword]

AK guy, keep in mind what most liberals consider 'reasonable' (assault weapon ban) is hardly reasonable by our standards, or indeed, the standards of most open minded, knowledgeable people.

In fact, it can be argued banning new machine guns was a big hit against RKBA....

 

[KBintheSLC]

dupe

 

[KBintheSLC]

dupe

 

[OcelotZ3]

AK guy, keep in mind what most liberals consider 'reasonable' (assault weapon ban) is hardly reasonable by our standards, or indeed, the standards of most open minded, knowledgeable people.

The ONLY people I personally know who support an AWB are fundamentalist Christian Republicans.

I asked why and they said "people don't need them". So I asked them if they knew what the actual definition of an "Assault Weapon" was. They couldn't answer at all (they had no idea, they were keying off of the name).

Actually I'm getting pretty tired of people in this thread assigning how/what "liberals think". Based on ALL of the people I know who are for a new AWB, I guess I now know how/what ALL conservatives think, and how they just react emotionally to issues...

Sheesh.

 

[OcelotZ3]

AK guy, keep in mind what most liberals consider 'reasonable' (assault weapon ban) is hardly reasonable by our standards, or indeed, the standards of most open minded, knowledgeable people.

The ONLY people I personally know who support an AWB are fundamentalist Christian Republicans.

I asked why and they said "people don't need them". So I asked them if they knew what the actual definition of an "Assault Weapon" was. They couldn't answer at all (they had no idea, they were keying off of the name).

Actually I'm getting pretty tired of people in this thread assigning how/what "liberals think". Based on ALL of the people I know who are for a new AWB, I guess I now know how/what ALL conservatives think, and how they just react emotionally to issues...

Sheesh.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

It's full-on baloney to say that "neo libs hate guns." In my experience as a gun-totin' huntin' fishin' liberal,

This is what we're talking about. You, for instance, support a ban on .50 caliber non-muzzleloaders, folding stocks, and support a new AWB.

The ONLY people I personally know who support an AWB are fundamentalist Christian Republicans.

Let's see what the polls, which gather opinions from far more than just a few people say: over 60% of Democrats (I know it's not supposed to get partisan, but I didn't see one for "liberal") want more gun control. Most(Over 50%) republicans and independants don't. In addition, "red" states, such as kentucky and Alaska, usually have better gun laws than "blue" states, like New York and Wisconsin.

 

[KBintheSLC]

The ONLY people I personally know who support an AWB are fundamentalist Christian Republicans.

Makes me wonder what planet this person is talking about. Here in the USA and on planet Earth, one can't deny that there is certainly an major affiliation between one particular political party, and gun control.

This brings me back to the original post... why do the lefties hate the 2A?

I know there are exceptions to this, but generally speaking, the assumption is true.

 

[Seenterman]

A man that would sacrifce Liberty for Security deserve neither.

That is all.
Coming from a Registered Democrat, (Libertarian leaning now) who thoroughly enjoyed this thread.

 

[bobby n.]

it boils down to this.. people in power want to stay in power, and by you and me owning a gun, that makes us a threat to them, either actual or percieved. paranoia is a way of life when you are in power. by taking away our guns they reduce us to the level of criminals for wanting our guns back..

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Self-reliance is anathema to liberals. I suspect many of them are deeply insecure -- they don't believe they can make it on their own, defend themselves, and so on. People who are able to stand up on their own two feet, make their own way in the world, protect themselves, and so on are a continual reproach to them.

 

[qajaq59]

Why do neo-liberals hate guns? That's easy. They hate everything.