Why Glock?

[Styx]

Glock is to striker fired pistols as Kleenex is to tissues.

When you have a runny nose do you ask for a Kleenex or a tissue? Regardless of which word you use almost everyone would hand you a tissue from whatever box was closest.

Glock is the trailblazer that introduced America to the plastic, striker fired pistol. They followed Henry Ford's manufacturing model fairly closely. Ford introduced incremental changes in the Model T improving it while lowering it's selling price. Glock has also made incremental change but has not lowered it's prices even though the manufacturing cost has dropped. This has made room for competitors to take advantage of Glock beta testing the striker fired pistol market and offering more features at a lower cost.

Glock has been slow to make changes such as interchangeable backstraps and single stack models again leaving the door open for the competition. S&W just announced that they have made 3,000,000 M&P Shields. Even Henry Ford knew when to quit producing the Model T and introduce the Model A due to improvements in car design and increased competition.

I agree to a point. Which is why I say, and the numbers support, that Glock is slowly losing market shares and is no longer as dominate as many in the gun community and in this thread keep pontificating...

Many are still living in the past with when it comes to Glock. You'd think that Glock still had exclusive rights on being the one and only reliable striker fired polymer pistol as well as the only gun manufacturer who has good quality control listening to some Glock owners. You'd also think that Glock had, at the very least, 60% of the civilian market share with everyone of the other major firearm companies fighting for crumbs within the last 40%... GunnyUSMC even has gone as far to say that the S&W M&P line basically isn't selling well or no where near as well as Glock.

Again, the facts do not back up perception. S&W and Ruger sell almost 2 million handguns a year. Taurus, Sig, and Springfield sell a significant amount too. CZ, Canik, Walther, and HK have become popular as well with their polymer offerings. Based on numbers, I'd say that Glock has dropped to be around 25% or so of the civilian market with S&W and Ruger being right there with them. As you already touched on, the fact that other companies are also making a product that has similar fit and finish, reliability, quality control, and customer service with similar or more features for, in some cases, half the price of a Glock is slowly but surely deteriorated Glocks dominance over time. Glock being "slow to change" to adopt market trends has also allowed it's competitors to take on that " trailblazing " role, and now it's Glock who is usually always lagging behind and is late to the party.

With that said, as long as Glock has the L.E. and military market, they will continue to be one of the most popular firearm manufacturers in the U.S. If history repeats itself, sooner or later the L.E. market might start to transition to something else like a more modular design for example. If Glock loses it's dominance in the aforementioned markets, doesn't drop their prices, and continues to be "slow to change", I don't see them remaining as popular I the civilian market either...

 

[Robbins290]

I agree to a point. Which is why I say, and the numbers support, that Glock is slowly losing market shares and is no longer as dominate as many in the gun community and in this thread keep pontificating...

Many are still living in the past with when it comes to Glock. You'd think that Glock still had exclusive rights on being the one and only reliable striker fired polymer pistol as well as the only gun manufacturer who has good quality control listening to some Glock owners. You'd also think that Glock had, at the very least, 60% of the civilian market share with everyone of the other major firearm companies fighting for crumbs within the last 40%... GunnyUSMC even has gone as far to say that the S&W M&P line basically isn't selling well or no where near as well as Glock.

Again, the facts do not back up perception. S&W and Ruger sell almost 2 million handguns a year. Taurus, Sig, and Springfield sell a significant amount too. CZ, Canik, Walther, and HK have become popular as well with their polymer offerings. Based on numbers, I'd say that Glock has dropped to be around 25% or so of the civilian market with S&W and Ruger being right there with them. As you already touched on, the fact that other companies are also making a product that has similar fit and finish, reliability, quality control, and customer service with similar or more features for, in some cases, half the price of a Glock is slowly but surely deteriorated Glocks dominance over time. Glock being "slow to change" to adopt market trends has also allowed it's competitors to take on that " trailblazing " role, and now it's Glock who is usually always lagging behind and is late to the party.

With that said, as long as Glock has the L.E. and military market, they will continue to be one of the most popular firearm manufacturers in the U.S. If history repeats itself, sooner or later the L.E. market might start to transition to something else like a more modular design for example. If Glock loses it's dominance in the aforementioned markets, doesn't drop their prices, and continues to be "slow to change", I don't see them remaining as popular I the civilian market either...

Did i miss something? I didnt realized glock “had the military market” here.

 

[Styx]

Did i miss something? I didnt realized glock “had the military market” here.

You're right. They are issued by some units, but Sig has that market beating out Glock. Ive been hearing about more and more U.S. police forces selecting the P320 over Glocks too. In my state, the VA State Police just switched to the P320 as well. Glock missed another opportunity when they released more of the same by refusing to release their version of a modular handgun...

.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

I agree to a point. Which is why I say, and the numbers support, that Glock is slowly losing market shares and is no longer as dominate as many in the gun community and in this thread keep pontificating...

Many are still living in the past with when it comes to Glock. You'd think that Glock still had exclusive rights on being the one and only reliable striker fired polymer pistol as well as the only gun manufacturer who has good quality control listening to some Glock owners. You'd also think that Glock had, at the very least, 60% of the civilian market share with everyone of the other major firearm companies fighting for crumbs within the last 40%... GunnyUSMC even has gone as far to say that the S&W M&P line basically isn't selling well or no where near as well as Glock.

Again, the facts do not back up perception. S&W and Ruger sell almost 2 million handguns a year. Taurus, Sig, and Springfield sell a significant amount too. CZ, Canik, Walther, and HK have become popular as well with their polymer offerings. Based on numbers, I'd say that Glock has dropped to be around 25% or so of the civilian market with S&W and Ruger being right there with them. As you already touched on, the fact that other companies are also making a product that has similar fit and finish, reliability, quality control, and customer service with similar or more features for, in some cases, half the price of a Glock is slowly but surely deteriorated Glocks dominance over time. Glock being "slow to change" to adopt market trends has also allowed it's competitors to take on that " trailblazing " role, and now it's Glock who is usually always lagging behind and is late to the party.

With that said, as long as Glock has the L.E. and military market, they will continue to be one of the most popular firearm manufacturers in the U.S. If history repeats itself, sooner or later the L.E. market might start to transition to something else like a more modular design for example. If Glock loses it's dominance in the aforementioned markets, doesn't drop their prices, and continues to be "slow to change", I don't see them remaining as popular I the civilian market either...

Now did you take into account that the number that you have looked at are the number of guns that have been manufactured or sold to distributors. They don't show the true number of guns that are sold and in the hands of people.
Gun sales will very depending on where you are, but your local gun shops can give you a clue to what is selling. I have a friend that owns a Police Supply & Gun store. He says that Sigs are out selling Glocks right now, but there is a larger Police Supply store less then five miles from his shop that is a Glock dealer and does a higher volume of sales and are able to beat his price on Glocks by $20 to $30. This is even on Blue Label guns.
I have a friend that owns a Pawn and Gun Shop. He says that Glocks are a steady seller and out sale Beretta, Sig. He buys used Glocks for more then other brands. He keeps approx. 200 to 300 new and used handguns in stock. He says that used Glocks sell faster then other autos. He said that the S&W Shield sell good but the full size M&Ps don't move fast.
A few months ago he put all his used Beretta pistols on sale because they were just not selling.
There are two other Pawn Shops within five mils of my friend's shop that I go to often and know the managers. Glocks are also there top selling hand gun, new and used.
Now this is in the area I live in and it may be different in your area.
I also deal with evidence guns. Of the major brands of gun that are picked up off the street Glocks far exceed the other brands of guns. The only gun that is seen in high numbers is the S&W SD series guns and that has a lot to do with them selling for half the price of Glocks.
Now will Glcoks always be at the top of the food chain when it comes to pistols, maybe not, but they have been having a hell of a run for longer then the other manufactures. Now some will say that Glocks have stayed basically the same over the years, but look at all the other manufactures and the guns they have put out to compete with Glock. Some have done pretty good and others have fallen short. One gun that comes to mind is the Ruger SR series. They are good guns and people that have them really like them. Hell, if I run across a clean used one at a good price, I'll buy one myself.
But I'm not the guy that will be sitting around waiting for the day that Glocks are no longer as popular. I'm the guy that will keep buying the guns that he likes and using the guns that work.

 

[Styx]

Now did you take into account that the number that you have looked at are the number of guns that have been manufactured or sold to distributors. They don't show the true number of guns that are sold and in the hands of people.
Gun sales will very depending on where you are, but your local gun shops can give you a clue to what is selling. I have a friend that owns a Police Supply & Gun store. He says that Sigs are out selling Glocks right now, but there is a larger Police Supply store less then five miles from his shop that is a Glock dealer and does a higher volume of sales and are able to beat his price on Glocks by $20 to $30. This is even on Blue Label guns.
I have a friend that owns a Pawn and Gun Shop. He says that Glocks are a steady seller and out sale Beretta, Sig. He buys used Glocks for more then other brands. He keeps approx. 200 to 300 new and used handguns in stock. He says that used Glocks sell faster then other autos. He said that the S&W Shield sell good but the full size M&Ps don't move fast.
A few months ago he put all his used Beretta pistols on sale because they were just not selling.
There are two other Pawn Shops within five mils of my friend's shop that I go to often and know the managers. Glocks are also there top selling hand gun, new and used.
Now this is in the area I live in and it may be different in your area.
I also deal with evidence guns. Of the major brands of gun that are picked up off the street Glocks far exceed the other brands of guns. The only gun that is seen in high numbers is the S&W SD series guns and that has a lot to do with them selling for half the price of Glocks.
Now will Glcoks always be at the top of the food chain when it comes to pistols, maybe not, but they have been having a hell of a run for longer then the other manufactures. Now some will say that Glocks have stayed basically the same over the years, but look at all the other manufactures and the guns they have put out to compete with Glock. Some have done pretty good and others have fallen short. One gun that comes to mind is the Ruger SR series. They are good guns and people that have them really like them. Hell, if I run across a clean used one at a good price, I'll buy one myself.
But I'm not the guy that will be sitting around waiting for the day that Glocks are no longer as popular. I'm the guy that will keep buying the guns that he likes and using the guns that work.

You said it best yourself. Depending on what seller you ask and your location, the answer will be different. For S&W, Ruger, and others to be annually manufuring almost 1.5-2 million handguns plus bringing in profits, distributors must be selling and reordering them, and people must be buying them... Or is the argument you're trying to make is that distributors are buying up hundreds of thousands of M&P each and every year that both, according to you, aren't selling well and aren't getting into the hands of people instead of investing in Glocks which are, according to you, flying off the shelves? That just isn't logical, sustainable, and makes no sense. Again, seems like you're making broad statements and are making a lot of claims based on what's going on in your bubble, your personal feelings, and your perception instead of facts..

 

[danez71]

It seems this thread has turned into a meaningless stats game?

Sales numbers..... if the logic were true, then Mc Donalds is putting out the best burger product.

Thinking the most common evidence guns is an indication of anything relevant (in this context) is like thinking what phone the Kardasians use means anything relevant.

 

[<*(((><]

It will be interesting to see how the modularity of these new pistol designs changes the marketplace. For me I would never switch back and forth between grips (like I do with AR uppers), but I could see trying out a different grip module and finding I like it better and stick with it. Or changing things up with short grip, long slide and barrel, or vice versa. If this modularity stays (which I think it will) I would expect Glock to come in late to the party. With that said I've still been very satisfied with my Glocks, they have the reputation they do for a reason, they just work and do so right out of the box. Glock had a great innovative product when they first came out and took the industry by storm, and while I appreciate their slow and methodical improvements/changes; the American consumer is drawed in by the allure of new and innovative verse old and tested. In regards, to new vs. old and innovative vs. tested; not one is right or wrong, and both are necessary for an industry.

I think Glock has put such a high emphasis on that their guns perform everytime the trigger is pulled with reliability being paramount; that innovation has to come at a slower pace than others. And I'm sure those who use Glocks on streets and front lines everyday appreciate this objective. I know I appreciate it, just like I appreciate Sig's innovation with the P365 or all the manufacturers embracing the modularity concept.

 

[Buzznrose]

1.

I thought it would be interesting to replace “Glock” with “the 1911” in some portions of your post....

I agree to a point. Which is why I say, and the numbers support, that Glock the 1911 is slowly losing market shares and is no longer as dominate as many in the gun community and in this thread keep pontificating...

Many are still living in the past with when it comes to Glock the 1911. You'd think that Glock the 1911 still had exclusive rights on being the one and only reliable striker fired polymer pistol...

2.
As you already touched on, the fact that other companies are also making a product that has similar fit and finish, reliability, quality control, and customer service with similar or more features for, in some cases, half the price of a Glock is slowly but surely deteriorated Glocks dominance over time.

Within reason, I agree with much of the paragraph above, albeit different companies have different policies and levels of QC and CS in different areas. As far as price, the European companies and the American companies are very different when it comes to sales from what I’ve seen. Glock isn’t much different in n this regard from Walther and HK, versus S&W and Springfield with their big promotions.

3.
Glock being "slow to change" to adopt market trends has also allowed it's competitors to take on that " trailblazing " role, and now it's Glock who is usually always lagging behind and is late to the party.

I would argue that Glock really hasn’t had much reason to change, and many of their innovations (finger grooves/not, ambi features, different barrels) are certainly not that innovative. The primary innovation of Glock, much like the 1911 and the CZ 75, was at the products initial launch. Most other companies have just recently started matching Glocks original design intent. Functional, reliable, easy to repair, interchangeable parts, good price point...these are all built into the Glock model. Perfection? Nope. Consistency? Combat accuracy? Ease of use? Functional? Absolutely!

.

Just thoughts, not looking to slam or insult any opinions or firearms!

 

[JDR]

I think they would rather just keep producing gen3's till CA bans all the guns.

And it just gets worse...effective July 1st, CA enacted mandatory background checks for all ammo purchases which the retailers haven’t even figured out how to implement yet. The local Wally’s has shut down all ammo sales until the 12th at which time they may not be ready to sell the ammo sitting on the shelves.

What I think is going on is....

• CA ammo buyers will have to receive a background check, paying $1 each and every time they make an ammunition purchase. I like to think of it as a charitable donation to the PRC that I can write off on next years tax return!
  
  
• Those (like me) who don’t already have their information in the CA Department of Justice’s system for these point-of-sale screenings will have to pay up to $20 for an initial screening. Another charitable PRC donation, and another write off!
  
  
• Vendors will have to make sure customers aren’t listed on a DOJ list that names people who are prohibited from buying guns for various reasons — for example, committing a felony — before selling to them.
  
  It’s a shame because the small businessmen who run the local gun stores and gun ranges out here are really good, decent and honest folks who are committed to the 2A cause. If you can set aside the dreck firearms they are forced to sell due to the CA DOJ Roster law, the facilities are first rate. So today on July 4th while most of us celebrate the freedoms and liberties we have, many of us are trying to figure out what freedoms and liberties we have left and what we stand to lose in the future!

 

[Buzznrose]

Did i miss something? I didnt realized glock “had the military market” here.

You're right. They are issued by some units, but Sig has that market beating out Glock. Ive been hearing about more and more U.S. police forces selecting the P320 over Glocks too. In my state, the VA State Police just switched to the P320 as well. Glock missed another opportunity when they released more of the same by refusing to release their version of a modular handgun...

.

Surely the US Army pistol contract was a huge win for Sig’s 320, as is the fact that LE orgs are starting to select the 320. Good for Sig for sure. Of course, many units had Sigs prior to losing to Glock, so nothing is forever here...

And don’t get too wrapped up with “Big Army” choosing this modular handgun as if it was solely on the firearms merits. I highly doubt this was the case, regardless what the report stated. There were (always are) politics and personal bias behind these decisions.

Think about the current social dynamics of our DOD forces (which I served for 28 years in uniform and currently work for as a DOD civilian employee). 25 years ago, our base gates were guarded by men almost exclusively. Today, much of our “go to war” forces are comprised of women, many barely 5’ tall and probably weigh 120 soaking wet in uniform. These women have heart, and they love our Nation, but this is clearly a shift, and a lot of the reason the current Beretta M9 simply won’t work. I have medium size men’s hands and I never liked shooting the M9, how do you think these petit female soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines feel? If we are going to bring them in and have them fill battlefield (or just inside the wire) combat roles, they need a firearm that will work for them. And with few exceptions, all US forces carry the same sidearm.

So this modular gun, which, BTW, Sig just happened to make work properly (remember when they fired when dropped) right before the pistol bid (that kept getting delayed IIRC...anyone find that interesting?) May or may not have been a coincidence. I don’t know.

But let’s not rate this 320 as much more superior to the Glock, or the M&P, or the APX, or the FN509 just because it was selected by Uncle Sam’s Big Army logisticians...

And as far as major police units switching from one manufacturer to another, I believe this is almost always done because of price incentives rather than the desire to procure a better firearm. I know several of the larger police units around me in South TX swapped from Glock’s to M&P. The SA police Chief used the reason behind the switch as the Glock Gen 4 texture was too rough for his officers hands.

https://www.ksat.com/news/sapd-changing-service-weapons

LOL! Boy, they caught crap over that one...but I am very sure and was told that S&W paid dearly for the right to arm these cops, including big deals on parts support and gun buybacks.

I am pretty sure Glock has done the same...no doubt.

 

[vba]

Gun sales will very depending on where you are, but your local gun shops can give you a clue to what is selling. I have a friend that owns a Police Supply & Gun store. He says that Sigs are out selling Glocks right now, but there is a larger Police Supply store less then five miles from his shop that is a Glock dealer and does a higher volume of sales and are able to beat his price on Glocks by $20 to $30. This is even on Blue Label guns.
I have a friend that owns a Pawn and Gun Shop. He says that Glocks are a steady seller and out sale Beretta, Sig. He buys used Glocks for more then other brands. He keeps approx. 200 to 300 new and used handguns in stock. He says that used Glocks sell faster then other autos. He said that the S&W Shield sell good but the full size M&Ps don't move fast.
A few months ago he put all his used Beretta pistols on sale because they were just not selling.
There are two other Pawn Shops within five mils of my friend's shop that I go to often and know the managers. Glocks are also there top selling hand gun, new and used.
Now this is in the area I live in and it may be different in your area.
I also deal with evidence guns. Of the major brands of gun that are picked up off the street Glocks far exceed the other brands of guns. The only gun that is seen in high numbers is the S&W SD series guns and that has a lot to do with them selling for half the price of Glocks.
Now will Glcoks always be at the top of the food chain when it comes to pistols, maybe not, but they have been having a hell of a run for longer then the other manufactures. Now some will say that Glocks have stayed basically the same over the years, but look at all the other manufactures and the guns they have put out to compete with Glock. Some have done pretty good and others have fallen short. One gun that comes to mind is the Ruger SR series. They are good guns and people that have them really like them. Hell, if I run across a clean used one at a good price, I'll buy one myself.
But I'm not the guy that will be sitting around waiting for the day that Glocks are no longer as popular. I'm the guy that will keep buying the guns that he likes and using the guns that work.

In my area (CT.) Glocks are selling more than other manufactures. I also see more Glocks at my range than all others, and this includes new shooters.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

You said it best yourself. Depending on what seller you ask and your location, the answer will be different. For S&W, Ruger, and others to be annually manufuring almost 1.5-2 million handguns plus bringing in profits, distributors must be selling and reordering them, and people must be buying them... Or is the argument you're trying to make is that distributors are buying up hundreds of thousands of M&P each and every year that both, according to you, aren't selling well and aren't getting into the hands of people instead of investing in Glocks which are, according to you, flying off the shelves? That just isn't logical, sustainable, and makes no sense. Again, seems like you're making broad statements and are making a lot of claims based on what's going on in your bubble, your personal feelings, and your perception instead of facts..

It's clear that you are not a big fan of Glocks. I still can't see why the people that don't like Glocks seen to be the ones that post the most in topics on Glocks. Hell, Mavracer even admitted to Trolling in post #296.
This topic is about why are Glocks so popular, but all that you have been posting about is how Glocks are not selling like they used to and that they will most likely not sell so good in the future. So pretty much all of your post have been off topic.
You use the word Argument, but I'm not arguing. I just stated that Glocks sell better in my area. Do you know what sells better in your area?
Wholesalers buy from the manufactures and then sell to the dealers. If the manufactures sales are slow and they have inventory, they drop their prices to move their product. If the Wholesalers can't move the inventory they have, they put it on sale to move it. This is with any product, even guns.
The M&P is one of my favorite guns and I got both of mine on sale. When it comes to Glocks, you don't find them on sale to often.
Someone pointed out that one police dept has gone to the Sig P320. But as I recall, some PDs that had gone to them dropped them after the gun going off when dropped.
I bet there are more departments that are upgrading from Gen4 Glocks to Gen5 then there are departments going to Sig P320s.
But does it really matter which gun someone else likes better?
It's like some people just can't stand to see people liking Glocks.
If you are one of those people, just stop reading topics about Glocks

 

[1KPerDay]

However people feel about Glocks, they sure like talking about them...

 

[Styx]

In my area (CT.) Glocks are selling more than other manufactures. I also see more Glocks at my range than all others, and this includes new shooters.

I see more XDs, Taurus handguns, and Shields selling at gun shops in my area, and various pistols at the ranges I frequent in the Hampton Roads area of Virginia. I don't see or notice one brand over the other at my local ranges really... Not many paying gun shop prices $550-$700 for a Glock I suspect. I think I've ever seen any HKs or Walthers. My wife stated that a few females in the CCW class she took a while back had Sig P238s...

 

[tarosean]

/thread

 

[Styx]

It's clear that you are not a big fan of Glocks. I still can't see why the people that don't like Glocks seen to be the ones that post the most in topics on Glocks. Hell, Mavracer even admitted to Trolling in post #296.
This topic is about why are Glocks so popular, but all that you have been posting about is how Glocks are not selling like they used to and that they will most likely not sell so good in the future. So pretty much all of your post have been off topic.
You use the word Argument, but I'm not arguing. I just stated that Glocks sell better in my area. Do you know what sells better in your area?
Wholesalers buy from the manufactures and then sell to the dealers. If the manufactures sales are slow and they have inventory, they drop their prices to move their product. If the Wholesalers can't move the inventory they have, they put it on sale to move it. This is with any product, even guns.
The M&P is one of my favorite guns and I got both of mine on sale. When it comes to Glocks, you don't find them on sale to often.
Someone pointed out that one police dept has gone to the Sig P320. But as I recall, some PDs that had gone to them dropped them after the gun going off when dropped.
I bet there are more departments that are upgrading from Gen4 Glocks to Gen5 then there are departments going to Sig P320s.
But does it really matter which gun someone else likes better?
It's like some people just can't stand to see people liking Glocks.
If you are one of those people, just stop reading topics about Glocks

Why is it clear I'm not a fan of Glocks, and why have you and others alluded to me "hating" Glocks or have a problem with those who carry them? I'm making an argument based on data I've seen that contradicts what some are saying. It seems that you and some others who really, really like Glocks a lot feel feel threatened and attack if and when someone says something that could be seen critical. Seems like you can't stand the thought of other firearms selling just as well or maybe more than your favorite brand.

I'm not basing Glocks or those who own them. I'm just not convinced they are the most carried and highest selling handguns currently in the U.S. market. That's the only argument I've been making.

For example, I've pointed out that S&W and Ruger are selling more or just as many that Glock imports and manufactures here. With no evidence or supporting data, you came to the conclusion that there was no way other companies could be selling just as well. The only possible explanation for S&W and Ruger to be sellling just as well as Glock is because distributors are buying hundreds of thousands of their handguns every year. That those handguns are then left sitting in warehouses unsold until they're sold dirt cheap... Even if your guess is true, S&W and Ruger are still selling and are getting into the hands of gun owners at a slightly higher rate or equal to Glock.

Since you brought it up, how many PD dropped the P320 and went to Glocks vs how many switched from the P320 to Glocks? Where are you getting your data from?

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Why is it clear I'm not a fan of Glocks, and why have you and others alluded to me "hating" Glocks or have a problem with those who carry them? I'm making an argument based on data I've seen that contradicts what some are saying. It seems that you and some others who really, really like Glocks a lot feel feel threatened and attack if and when someone says something that could be seen critical. Seems like you can't stand the thought of other firearms selling just as well or maybe more than your favorite brand.

I'm not basing Glocks or those who own them. I'm just not convinced they are the most carried and highest selling handguns currently in the U.S. market. That's the only argument I've been making.

For example, I've pointed out that S&W and Ruger are selling more or just as many that Glock imports and manufactures here. With no evidence or supporting data, you came to the conclusion that there was no way other companies could be selling just as well. The only possible explanation for S&W and Ruger to be sellling just as well as Glock is because distributors are buying hundreds of thousands of their handguns every year. That those handguns are then left sitting in warehouses unsold until they're sold dirt cheap... Even if your guess is true, S&W and Ruger are still selling and are getting into the hands of gun owners at a slightly higher rate or equal to Glock.

Since you brought it up, how many PD dropped the P320 and went to Glocks vs how many switched from the P320 to Glocks? Where are you getting your data from?

Now I never said you were a Glock hater, you’re reading between the lines. And the last time I looked to see what was between the lines it was just empty space.
But you have made it clear that you are here to argue and not discuss.
I have stated a few times that the S&W M&P is my favorite polymer frame pistol, but you seem to have missed that. You need to go back and read what I actually posted.
You state that I’ve come to the conclusion that the only way that S&W and Ruger can out sale Glock is by selling them to wholesalers who just sit on them. But there you missed it again. I never said it was the only reason, just one possible factor.
Now the SD series of handguns is one of S&Ws biggest sellers. It’s a good gun, but it’s also a budget gun. Glock doesn’t offer a budget gun. I bet if you only compared guns in the same categories S&W might not be doing as good.
And when it comes to the guns that police departments carry, I know that most of them in my area issue Glocks. I don’t know any of them that issue Sigs or Rugers.
Where do we get our info? Here are just two.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/us...ke-the-switch-to-glock-pistols/#axzz5skON1m1K

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/02/2...ent-agencies-have-adopted-new-models-recently

 

[mavracer]

It's clear that you are not a big fan of Glocks. I still can't see why the people that don't like Glocks seen to be the ones that post the most in topics on Glocks. Hell, Mavracer even admitted to Trolling in post #296.

Disputing the inflammatory statement isn't trolling, if I'm guilty of anything it would be feeding the troll.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

Disputing the inflammatory statement isn't trolling, if I'm guilty of anything it would be feeding the troll.

I guess that you forgot that you posted this.

I do it when I'm bored just to trigger the fanboys.

 

[Styx]

Now I never said you were a Glock hater, you’re reading between the lines. And the last time I looked to see what was between the lines it was just empty space.
But you have made it clear that you are here to argue and not discuss.
I have stated a few times that the S&W M&P is my favorite polymer frame pistol, but you seem to have missed that. You need to go back and read what I actually posted.
You state that I’ve come to the conclusion that the only way that S&W and Ruger can out sale Glock is by selling them to wholesalers who just sit on them. But there you missed it again. I never said it was the only reason, just one possible factor.
Now the SD series of handguns is one of S&Ws biggest sellers. It’s a good gun, but it’s also a budget gun. Glock doesn’t offer a budget gun. I bet if you only compared guns in the same categories S&W might not be doing as good.
And when it comes to the guns that police departments carry, I know that most of them in my area issue Glocks. I don’t know any of them that issue Sigs or Rugers.
Where do we get our info? Here are just two.
https://www.ammoland.com/2018/04/us...ke-the-switch-to-glock-pistols/#axzz5skON1m1K

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/02/2...ent-agencies-have-adopted-new-models-recently

First you claimed I wasn't a fan of Glocks, and now it's that I'm only here to argue? Then you must be here for the very same reason my friend. We both have been going back and forth debating our point of views, so I think that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black... You are correct about one thing, you didn't claim I was a "hater." I went back and looked, and it was another member.

Yes, you've claimed a lot of things with nothing to back it up or support your claims, or what facts cased you come to those conclusions. Not only that, you're moving the goal post. What we were discussing is Glocks dominance in the market, and what people carried the most. Whether S&W and Glock sells budget guns, whether distributors are buying are buying millions of dollars of inventory just to sit and store each and every year just to later sell for cheap, what firearms are taken off criminals in the street, etc have absolutely nothing to do with the whether S&W is currently selling more guns than Glock.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

First you claimed I wasn't a fan of Glocks, and now it's that I'm only here to argue? Then you must be here for the very same reason my friend. We both have been going back and forth debating our point of views, so I think that's a case of the pot calling the kettle black... You are correct about one thing, you didn't claim I was a "hater." I went back and looked, and it was another member.

Yes, you've claimed a lot of things with nothing to back it up or support your claims. Not only that, you're moving the goal post. What we were discussing is Glocks dominance in the market., and what people carried the most. Whether S&W and Glock sells budget guns, whether distributors are buying are buying millions of dollars of inventory just to sit and store each and every year just to later sell them for cheap, what firearms are taken off criminals in the street have absolutely nothing to do with the whether S&W is currently selling more guns than Glock. Not only that, you still have not supplied anything to support your claims.

You yourself have not provide anything that backs up your claim that Glock is losing its popularity. The data provided was three years old. The gun market is ever changing. I provided two articles. Did you read them?
But you still don’t seem to know what this topic is about. It’s not about who sales more guns, or Glocks dominance in the market, or even what gun is carried the most. It’s about why are Glocks popular.
Do you own a Glock? Or shot one very much? I ask this because there are a good many people that say they don’t like Glocks or say that they don’t care for them that have never fired one, or have had very little contact with them.
If you lived near me, I would be more the happy to go out to the range. We could shoot different Glocks and other guns, compare them and see which ones you like the most.
My department has just over 650 Officers. When we switched from S&Ws to Glocks it only took one day to train officer and have them qualify. We had a few officers that had trouble, but they were the same ones that had trouble with the Smiths.
Glocks are popular. Other gun companies have been trying to put something on the market to compete with it. Ruger’s SR and American series couldn’t keep up . I think that Sig has finely got a good contender with the P320, but only time will tell.

 

[Mowgli Terry]

I'm wondering how many rounds these unhappy people have actually run through a Glock. I'm not a natural so I have to practice. Each time I go out to practice with my G23.4 I know several things. First, I will have no problems with the gun. There will be no malfunctions. The gun will be more than accurate for any carry purpose to twenty-five yards. For me, that's "Why a Glock." It would be hateful to suggest many gurus and fanboys learn their guns in the bathroom with a gun rag..

 

[mavracer]

I guess that you forgot that you posted this.

Oh so Glock fanboys can say anything they want and make false inflammatory claims and when someone disputes it they're the trolls. Got it lol.
Funny how you keep saying the same things over and over "glocks are bla bla bla and if you dont agree your just a hater or troll or what ever"
Why havent you addressed my facts disputing your claim.
Ie earlier I pointed out that Smith and Ruger made 1.25 million 9mms according to the tables posted on page 10. THATS JUST 2 COMPANIES AND ONLY 9MM.
Yep crickets chirping about troling

 

[Styx]

You yourself have not provide anything that backs up your claim that Glock is losing its popularity. The data provided was three years old. The gun market is ever changing. I provided two articles. Did you read them?
But you still don’t seem to know what this topic is about. It’s not about who sales more guns, or Glocks dominance in the market, or even what gun is carried the most. It’s about why are Glocks popular.
Do you own a Glock? Or shot one very much? I ask this because there are a good many people that say they don’t like Glocks or say that they don’t care for them that have never fired one, or have had very little contact with them.
If you lived near me, I would be more the happy to go out to the range. We could shoot different Glocks and other guns, compare them and see which ones you like the most.
My department has just over 650 Officers. When we switched from S&Ws to Glocks it only took one day to train officer and have them qualify. We had a few officers that had trouble, but they were the same ones that had trouble with the Smiths.
Glocks are popular. Other gun companies have been trying to put something on the market to compete with it. Ruger’s SR and American series couldn’t keep up . I think that Sig has finely got a good contender with the P320, but only time will tell.

We were both literally discussing over the last few pages whether Glock was still the most sold and owned firearm, and now it was never a topic of discussion between us and others? You then claim I didn't show anything to back up my claims, and then go one in the next sentence to claim I did? Yes, the data I and another member provided was 3 years old, but it's more data/stats than you provided.

Again, when did I ever say I don't like Glocks, and what have I stated to bash them to cause you to keep bringing this up? I've owned, fired, and have experience with firearms from just about all major manufacturers including Glock.

Yes, I agree S&W and Ruger failed in the L.E. market, but Sig seems to be beating Glock in the military market, and gaining shares in the L.E. market. I was just able to find dozens of agencies who switched to the P320 within the last two years. Don't know if they'll ever take over the market, but they're gaining shares.

 

[tarosean]

So this modular gun, which, BTW, Sig just happened to make work properly (remember when they fired when dropped) right before the pistol bid (that kept getting delayed IIRC...anyone find that interesting?) May or may not have been a coincidence. I don’t know.

The contract gun was not exactly the same as the civilian one. Same with the 19x not being the same as the gun submitted to the trials.