Why I don't have Ducktails, et al

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Hello. Having tried both standard GI grip safeties and smooth front straps vs. upswept and either checkering or skateboard tape on the front strap, I prefer and will continue to use the latter....and, yes, I have had to quickly present the weapon in more than one deadly force scenario over the years. Works for me and is what I'll stick with. That said, I'm know some others who greatly prefer the setup as described by Tuner and others. If a fellow or lady has the opportunity to try both set-ups on several occassions in range drills in which you draw and fire, etc, such might be a good way to see what works best for that person. I wouldn't discount either way until I'd tried it. Folks will be on both sides of the fence on this one but in the end it's what works for the individual. I know what works best for me, but certainly cannot guarantee that it would for others.

Best.
 
I'm not the expert mind you (and perhaps no one truly is), but these are my thoughts on the grip thing...

From what I've personally seen/heard, it seems to me like there is only one common method to grip/draw the gun. The basic concept is to forcefully jam your hand down under the grip safety, wrap the fingers around the gun, pull out the gun, then adjust the grip if needed. Hence the need for a reference point (like the more pointed standard grip safety), and a smooth front strap that allows the fingers to slide around. Personally I find this method to be very awkward and inconsistent.

The method I've recently learned, is to "hook" the front strap from the front, clamp down with the thumb and meaty portion of the palm, then draw. In my opinion, once you've practiced the "hook draw" a few times (well maybe a little more than a few times), it quickly becomes instinctive, and you can do it with almost any gun (except revolvers), whether holstered or just laying around. The advantage I've found with this method is that I get a consistent, firm grip on the gun, and I don't have to worry about getting the "wrong" grip. So by using this method, checkering/tape aids in securing the grip around the front strap, and thus is to my benefit.

I don't object to the smooth front strap, but my personal preference is to use something that will provide some "stick" to it. The extra grip works for my technique, but I can see where it could be the opposite for others.

However, if the situation has degenerated into chaos, then it is my belief that having or establishing a proper grip will probably be the last of my worries.
 
1911Tuner,

Will you be backpedaling to get away from a knife? Will you be sidestepping to get out of the way of the initial incoming fire? Will your
hand be clean and dry...or covered with mud...or blood? Will it be raining?
Snowing? Hands warm or cold? Will you even be on your feet when you slap leather? Can you get that correct grip on the gun when you suddenly
realize that the end of your life could be seconds away...under any or all of the adverse conditions described above?

Which is exactly why I have the awful ducktail and checkering on my guns. ;)

The beavertail is there to index the grip and ensure my hand goes into the same place each and every time I grab my gun; with the standard grip safety my hand tends to ride up and over it when attempting to acquire a shooting grip.

...and what you said about mud, sweat, and blood? That's why I have checkering; to keep the gun from squirting out of my hand like a bar of soap.

To each their own. :)

(I find the choice of features by the "gamers" at LAPD SWAT, FBI HRT/SWAT, and the USMC, somewhat interesting... :uhoh: )
 
mossyrocks 1911

Mossyrock,

That 1911 pistol of yours is a pure-dee pittiful lookin piece of equipment to bring to any Bar-B-Q.

You should be so ashamed that you would be willing to exchange it for Officers Model from Hell version of a Bar-B-Q boat anchor.

See my post on premature slide unlocking.

Just funnin..Its a nice looking piece of equipment.

salty.
 
Interesting thread. At the very least, it makes ya think about why you carry your 1911 in the configuration that you do.
I buy a couple guns per year. Most are range toys that could be carried if need be but when I decide to strap one of them on, this particular gun’s status changes bigtime-forever. It is no longer something I regard as a play pretty where care is taken to avoid scratches, dents and dings. It is henceforth not handled so delicately It is expected to pull it’s own weight and ALWAYS work – no mater what.
It has been reborn as a TOOL and will never be a play pretty again.
Knowing this, I set out to find what combination of cruise/AC/ power brakes/sunroof, works for me in order for this tool to do its job and sometimes with an extra added to make its user more efficient at said job.

If I were going to have a gun built, a TOOL, This is what I would be after:

RELIABLE: This is a must. No play pretty will ever make TOOL status with out flawless function. End of sentence, paragraph, chapter and book.

Good sights. They don’t have to be the latest glow in the cave thing that’s out but I want good visible sights. I know, 99.999% of shootings don’t involve sights but you see, I’m also a shotgunner and shotgunners don’t use sights to shoot really but we do use them as a reference point in our peripheral vision. This helps especially when the vision has gone all “ tunnel†on ya.

Decent trigger, decent enough that I’ll wont mind practicing with it.
I don’t need or want a 2-3 lb trigger when I have 9.6 gallons of adrenaline surging through me.

I don’t want a gun OR accessory that raises a blister if I don’t practice with it every week to stay toughened up to it. Or, a gun that recoils so much that if I slack off from practice for a while (everybody does it sometimes, even you so don’t even try to fib about it :D ) , I have to fight the beginnings of a flinching problem when I pick it back up.

All that being said, here goes,

Grip safeties: Either Or. Although the ducktails do feel good to me(They seem to spread out felt recoil for me) and the way they curve up and around the hammer makes me think they would let potentially snagged clothing slide over the hammer and away. I can live without them but still like them.

Extended safeties: Don’t like them. A fine motor skill is a fine motor skill. Either I’m able to click the standard safety off or I’m not. A little bit of size isn’t going to help under stress. (for me)
Besides, carrying one of these IWB with an extended safety is just another pain in the ribs (ahem,,,,uh gut).

Extended slide stops: (see extended safeties)

Front strap checkering: Never owned a gun with it. I have handled a few and had one of those metal stippled wraps on one of my guns,-kinda made my hands sore after 3-400 rounds and finally broke(ripped).
It kept shifting around during shooting and was annoying.
It would seem to me that they would help if you had slippery liquid on your hands.
As far as getting the wrong grip, I think that it would depend on how sharp that checkering was as to how hard it would be to change your wrong grip. –Haven’t formed and opinion yet.

Slide serrations: One of mine has ‘em and mine are sharp as a razor and like to chew up my holsters. (Bad serrates Bad, sit,,stay)

Guide rods: I’ve had them, I saw no difference in the gun with them. (except for the two piece that kept unscrewing while I was shooting it) Now I view them as extra weight I don’t need on an already 4 LB gun.

Looking back up the page I guess I’m more of a traditionalist about the 1911 but I try to keep an open mind about new stuff just incase. Remember, my opinion is irrelevant as yours :D
 
Its really just a matter of old school vs new.

Both configurations work for those that prefer them... but if your holster relies alot on tension, of has any type of security retention feature, the extra purchase afforded by grip checkering will likely be appreciated, even more so if your hands are wet, bloody or muddy. Such may not be the case if you still wear a leather flap holster.

Racking the slide, using the sight on the belt, while running does give one pause to wonder... Why did you need to rack the slide? Why was the chamber empty, especially if its your only weapon in a hostile place!? (Only the old-school military TMs advocate carrying a 1911 with the chamber empty) Now, during one hand reloads at the range, I have used the bend of my leg to grip the slide on my Glock and chamber a round. Of course, there is little chance of doing so while running, but then again, changing mags with only one hand while running isn't likely to be a viable option either.

As Tamara alluded: there are many professional folks out there that still carry a 1911 type pistol into harms way, and many of them prefer the new style features. I have a USGI 1911 (not A1) and a "modernized" Essex/Rand... there is simply no contest in terms of user-friendliness... for me.
 
re:

Ahhh...What a great thread! Everybody talkin' and nobody gettin' torqued.
Well...Dave did get a teensy bit riled, but he's an old curmudgeon, so he's
allowed.

Stephen...Absolutely! Whatever works for you works for you, and maybe for me...but maybe not for Mossyrock. Thank you sir!
______________________

Mossyrock...Nice Rand! Hand engraving is the sort of bling that even a
traditionalist can appreciate, and the gun is still recognizeable. Personally,
I'd have scrounged around for a one-piece pre 11-A1 trigger, but everything else is a go. Kudos! John Moses woulda been proud.
I also much prefer the old-style GI thumb safety, though some think that it's too small in the paddle. My thumb is less likely to slip off than with
even the "standard" mil-spec safety.
______________________

Brad...No. There's not just one way to draw. Jamming the hand down on the back of the gun is one of them, but not my way. I was shown a little
secret to fast presentation when I was 16...by Mr. Chained Lightening
himself...Bill Jordan. When Jordan talks fast-draw...Listen closely. In
the interest of keeping this reply brief, I'll defer the description to another
reply. I will say that using his method cuts about a quarter-second off
my time from signal to shot over the jam down, pull out method.
______________________

Andrew...Lad, when are ya comin' down for a bull and bullet shootin' session? :cool:
_____________________

Tam...Squirt out of the hand like a bar of soap? Girl! C'mon now....:rolleyes: :D Still waitin' on a time we can hook up for a close-up
of that Pro...Be aware that Kelie will rope ya into a rousin' game of Rummy
that could go on 'til the wee hours.
_________________________

BigG...Bingo! :cool:
________________________

Salty...I got your PM on that chopped Colt outta hell. Answer
comin' directly...

Tuner
 
Common Thread

Reading this thread it becomes apparent that there is no "right" or "wrong" here. For those who have had to use this tool for what it was originally designed for, the form that worked and allowed you to have a cold one after everything settled down is the correct choice for you. I know what worked for me -- bone stock, as-issued, pistol, Mod. 1911a1 -- and that's my choice. If you survived using the Buck Rogers Model, complete with colored flashing lights, you'll rightly chose that one.
It is confidence in the tool, ladies and gentlemen.
 
Confidence

Detachment Charlie said it:

It is confidence in the tool, ladies and gentlemen.
__________________

Ahhhh...Confidence! The stuff that enables you to act instead of worrying about trivial things.

Confidence! it projects an aura around you that often causes the bad guy to stand down before he starts. it shows. It exudes from your voice and in your posture.

Confidence! The bottom line.
 
Good thread!

I was raised and learned on "old stuff". Mil- Spec Gov't 45's and K frames.

I have always said for a defensive firearm - My Criteria :

Gun must fit shooter , in a platform that affords the shooter quick accurate hits , in the largest caliber/gauge they can handle .

I'm taking into account the stature of shooter ( physical , in this case hands and fingers) any physical impairments ( arthritis, injury, eyesight...), level of expereince....

I have my druthers , I have no disagreement with Tuner, Tamara, Mr. Camp...others.

I do have my criteria....
 
I'll never understand the need for the "bump" at the base of the grip safety. None of my 1911's have it.

Now as far as what works for one might not work for another. My Commander is stock, except the bakelite grips were replaced with checkered walnut with little gold Colt medallions. It bites, sometimes hard when you shoot with a high thumb hold... and the front strap always seemed a little slippery to me.

Hence the switch to a Houge monogrip... which felt great, but looked totally wrong on my old '50s piece. Sometimes aesthetics matter. It also increased the width of the grip and rubber can catch on clothes and make your gun print.

The monogrip, and a beavertail went onto my ODI Viking/Colt and while I was using it for IDPA seemed to fit me near perfectly. (My hands fit the grooves) The frankengun was never meant as a carry gun.. more as a range toy, but it looks all business.

As for hammers.... I often wonder why the old style checkered hammer of the pre A1 went away... it's very handy and I like it better than the commander hammers on my other two. The old Colt (1919) is pretty much stock, except for a re-blue. The flat mainspting housing gets roughed up easier than the grooved arched ones do... and I think I'd prefer an arched smooth MSH... if such a thing existed.

Personally, other than the tiny sights on the original Government model, I think JMB pretty much got it right the first time.

Bells and whistles, no matter how you slice them, are still bells and whistles.
 
Let me play!

OK, I'll start with the 'tail, be it beaver, duck, moose, whatever.
I like a little bit of one, but not the big, upward curving type. I always disliked that big old thing that M-S Safari Arms used on the Enforcer, etc.

My first 1911 was one that I put together on the cheap. It had a std grip safety that I cut a rounded "dent" in for a round Commander hammer.
Had it been just a tad wider, it would be just about right. As it was, everybody knew when I'd been shoooting by the red stripe on the web of my hand.

I like the std Commander hammer, no "strectched" variety. Actually, I would prefer it without the hole in the center, but haven't seen any.

Sights- I have a white dot front on most guns that I use "seriously". If it's a dark background, the white may show up. If light, the surrounding black post works.
Night sights? I'm still undecided.
Rear sight- I don't like the Novak for the reasons Tuner mentioned. It's the opposite of what I want. I want to be able to hook it on something to oiperate the slide if needed. Will it be needed? Maybe, so let's have it there in case.
I like the Heinie rear sight. I have a couple of guns with Colt's "high-profile" rear sight that I first saw on the first stainless Gov't Models in the mid-80's. It works fine, but I think it's a little thin to resist bending if dropped.

Checkering- I didn't like it for the same reasons as Tuner.
Then, I got a 1991 a couple of years ago that had some chex done on the fronstrap and m.s. housing by a local 'smith. This 'smith had recently died, and I got the gun just to have something he had done, as I had only minor work done by him, and no complete guns.

What was different would be regarded as flawed work by most, including me. But, upon further study, I saw the method to his madness. It was 20 LPI, but he didn't point up the diamonds. So what this did, was to allow my hand to slide into position as grip adjustment was needed, but, when squeezed, the grip locked into my hand.

A lot of 'smiths wouldn't have allowed that work out of the shop. The customers would've refused it if they did. I wish some more people would try it though.

I have a beef about overtravel stops in triggers. Lose 'em. They're just trouble waiting to happen.
My 1991 has one in the trigger, but I "fixed" it. I backed it off, then crushed the threads behind the stop. I only left it in to plug the hole.
 
I'll never understand the need for the "bump" at the base of the grip safety.

That is for the unnatural artiste thumb hold, imho. I lifts the ball of the thumb away from the grip safety. There is no need for it if the thumb is placed somewhere along the top of the grip but lots want their thumb up level with to the rear sight. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Almost forgot-
Full length guide rods- Hate 'em. Don't see any good, but plenty of bad. My top four 1911 beefs are- FLGRs, fwd serrations, holey triggers, and plastic mainspring housings. FLGRs purpose is on a comp gun that might need one, but since I don't need a comp gun, no thanks.
As for being able to operate the slide with a std recoil setup by pushing against a table top, heel, etc- If I need to operate the slide with one hand, I'll hook the rear sight on my pocket edge or something like Tuner said.
But I like the std recoil system, so I can have that option also.

Thumb safety- I actually like the plain old G.I.-type best. But, since the extended ones are what's likely to be on there, the narrow ones are fine.
But, no ambis, please.

Forward serrations- Hate 'em, myself. I do see their purpose for some people. Those that wear Nomex gloves as part of the job need any break they can get.
 
Some of these issues aren't "all or none", and you may be able to have your cake and eat it too.

Frontstrap treatments that improve grip but don't limit grip changes include blunted checkering, scallops and stippling. There's a non-game reason for grip enhancement when your hands are wet with sweat or blood, and having some sort of non-slip frontstrap and backstrap traction-enhancer that helps you hold on but doesn't limit your ability to shift the grip makes good sense to me. I dislike sharp checkering, though.

The standard 1911A1 grip safety still comes standard on Colt's new Series 70 and Series 80 guns, and you can round the edges if they bug you, without sacrificing any "grip index" at all.
 
Smooth Safety

Sawbones said:

The standard 1911A1 grip safety still comes standard on Colt's new Series 70 and Series 80 guns, and you can round the edges if they bug you, without sacrificing any "grip index" at all.

OH! yesssss....And they're very nice when done right. Look ma!
No blisters!
 
1911Tuner,

A few points were made on the checkered front straps to the effect that
they helped some in grabbing and holding the gun correctly...and I can
understand how they can help on the range under mostly controlled
conditions.

I'm not talking about on a range under mostly controlled conditions.

I'm talking about downed shooter drills.
I'm talking about from the leather with deliberately greased or muddied hands.
I'm talking about practicing with these things under the conditions for which I carry a gun.

I don't shoot Bullseye or PPC or what-have-you. I don't shoot for groups with these guns.

The main beef most people have with the aggressive 20-lpi checkering that I prefer is that it hurts their hands during long range sessions. I didn't buy most of these gun for long range sessions; I bought them for CCW use. (Then again, the checkering doesn't tear my hands up with any reasonable amount of firing; I have sadly acquired a fair amount of callous in the area where it engages my fingers.) Interestingly enough, a large number of people these days who engage in two-way pistol matches for a living seem to have no problem with these allegedly "gamer gun" features. In fact, they usually specify them.

I have no objection to your reasoning for wanting the gun the way you have it. You have obviously spent many years of trial and error and much thought determining the features you prefer.

What gets me all cross-threaded with you is the unspoken assumption that anyone who has reached a different conclusion hasn't done likewise.
 
Cross- Threaded

Tam said:

What gets me all cross-threaded with you is the unspoken assumption that anyone who has reached a different conclusion hasn't done likewise.
______________________

No no! I haven't assumed anything of the sort...You must've read that into it. I just wanted to get some input from those who HAVE thought it through...and more importantly, from those who haven't.

Sorry I gotcha all cross threaded...That wasn't my intent at all.

FWIW, though...This is the first time that I've been pounced on for what I
DIDN'T say. :confused: Interesting...

Cheers!
 
Tuner,

I've been reading your stuff since you were posting over at GlockTalk's 1911 forum, and Tamara's statement is pretty much spot on, from where I sit as well.

Lots of folks shoot under range conditions that bear no resemblance to the old PPC or bullseye league matches... I even had a blast shooting the Dallas GSSF match in the rain a few years back.

You do get rather preachy and, though I'm sure it's unintended, often come across as "I am the most studious among you, so heed this..."

I enjoy some of your techincal posts, but your opinions are just that... obviously they are valid for you, based on your experiences, but not necessarily dictum for the masses. Some folks' writings never come to terms with that, Jeff Cooper springs to mind, but I'm sure yours is less intentional.
 
Hey-hey!! :D

Upswept extended grip safeties - The upswept part, I can take or leave. As long as I can consistantly index on the pistol grip, the precise position of my hand does not matter all that much. However, I absolutely need an extended grip safety - my freestyle shooting platform won't consistantly deactivate a stock 1911 grip safety. Uncool.

Checkered front straps - I like them, although it is possible to go too far (i.e. don't checker under the trigger guard.) They allow me to exert less grip pressure on the pistol, which allows for faster split times. I never adjust my grip on my pistol once it's out of the holster - my strong-hand index is fully established before the pistol is drawn. If, for some reason I don't have a perfect grip index, at least the gun isn't going to move around in my hand under fire - this will cause more inconsistancy than an imperfect shooting platform ever will.

Sticky rubber grips are an example of going too far. I don't like them - they tend to pull at my clothes.

Sights - Accuracy is much more important in close-range, life-or-death gun battles than it is on the target range - the cardboard bullseye target isn't going to cave your skull in with a tire jack if you miss, or score a marginal hit. You have to be able to get your shots off fast, and you have to be able to hit every time - and a hit "somewhere in the torso" ain't going to cut it. Point shooting at any distance beyond ten feet doesn't provide the necessary level of precision. So I like having high-visibility sights. I have never in my life seen anyone hang up a draw by getting his sights caught on something - I have seen people miss a big target at close range by not using the sights.

For a fighting gun I like Heinie Straight Eight night sights, and I mill a notch in the rear sight to allow belt-cocking. Works good.

Front slide serrations - Again, I've never seen a slide serration hang up a drawstroke. I can take or leave front serrations, but they are awful nice for press-checking a 1911 without sticking your piggies in front of the muzzle.

Flattop slides - they make the front sight look taller. That's all. Oh, and they look good.

Other stuff - I like a beveled magazine well on a singlestack 1911. It both makes reloading easier, and makes it easier to strip out a stuck magazine. I do not like large magwells, because they make it nigh-on-impossible to strip out a stuck magazine.

I like having a nice slim ambidextrous safety on a fighting gun - the possibility of having my strong arm disabled is simply too high. The only one I'll use is the Kings, and I narrow them down considerably.

I HATE HATE HATE hex-head grip screws. Gah. Seriously, my Leatherperson does not have a hex driver on it.

Enough for now - off to slave over the mill...

- Chris
 
Good thread

I learned about 1911s when I was issued one.

That's how old I am, but I'm not old enough to be a curmudgeon! :scrutiny:

I've done things pretty much the way I want, and what I want is this:

I have two weapons, and only two weapons. A SA milspec (otherwise known as My Beloved Milspec) and a SA loaded model. As a side note, I got the loaded model when I sent a Micro back and told them to keep it. I'll never own another small 1911, but that's probably another thread.

I'm qualified to hold these opinions, but I'm not interested in telling war stories. Take what I say for whatever it's worth to you.

Not reality based enough for you? One handed racking too much of a stretch?

You'll panic. You'll ruin your pants. You'll start to pant. Vomit will fill your throat. You'll start to shake.

Then you'll do whatever you can, and you'll do it as hard and fast as you can, given your panting, shaking and the tears in your eyes, and either you'll get it done, or you'll become a casualty. The only thing I have for someone who thinks they can predict their reaction to hostile fire or the conditions under which they will use their weapon is contempt. Maybe you know what you'll do, maybe you really can say how it'll happen. I just don't believe you.

The other thing I'll say about experience is this: everything changes, no exceptions. At my tender and impressionable age, I took my first shots using a flashlight about two months ago, and I learned a couple things that had never occurred to me.

My two weapons are both the same, government 1911s because I don't want to learn a new weapons system under fire, and I don't want Bad Things to happen when I'm carrying a weapon that's new or different.

Because of that, I've done what I can to make the weapons the same, choosing the features I like best. Then I practice with and carry both of them, so it just isn't going to matter which one I have when I need a weapon.

To My Beloved Milspec, I've added:
  • McCormick ignition
  • S&A beavertail
  • Brown extractor
  • Brown hammer strut
  • Trigger job
  • Pachmyer wrap around grips
  • Some weird extended ejector

Note that I couldn't have done any of this without 'Tuner's advice and support, and let me take this opportunity to thank him again.

The only things I've done to the loaded model are to replace the grip safety with a S&A beavertail that is identical to the one on My Beloved Milspec, and to get rid of that ridiculous guide rod, and replace it with a GI plug.

Now, the reason that I chose the loaded model when I jettisoned the Micro :fire: is simple: it's the Mispec with some options. The loaded model is the right size, and it isn't "tightened"- it's built to milspecs and the frame isn't Baer/Wilson/Kimber/To Damn tight to the frame.

You can keep a weapon nice and clean in an indoor, well lit, clean range. You can even clean and oil it daily, and carry out a wonderful maintenance program on your carry weapon.

But you don't know what will happen in the seconds preceding your first shot. Really.

As 'Tuner said, you may be face down in the mud, ankle deep in a lake, you might dive for cover (a VERY worthwhile endeavor, particularly for those of us with large yellow stripes down our backs) into a pile of sand/gravel/pine needles/sawdust. You might be lying on your weapon, grinding it around, in that mudpuddle when you reach for it. Maybe your weapon was all sparkling clean and fresh smelling when the argument started, but it can be covered in and filled with sludge in the time between shots.

Won't lie down? You will if you're shot, believe me. You'll loose track of everything, including where your weapon is and what it's doing the instant a bullet hits you.

You don't know what condition your weapon will be in when you reach for it, so I chose weapons that were built to tolerate the worst there is.

On that note, Tamara, a more impressive picture would have been to open the slide and cover it in MUD, not dirt, and then re-load it, rack it twice, and pull the trigger. My Beloved Milspec will pass that test, and I'm interested in knowing if a Pro will.

That all said, there are at least two other reasons I didn't upgrade to a Pro when I relieved the Micro of duty. Debbie, the custom shop coordinator at Springfield, told me that there are no beavertails available for the Pro that don't have a bump, and that the slide-to-frame fit on Pros are tightened.

Both reasons disqualify Pros for me.

I replaced the grip safety on my loaded model with an identical safety as My Beloved Milspec because the loaded model comes with a bump, and I don't like them. They hurt my tender little hand, and I'm philosophically opposed to pain.

The differences that remain are the mainspring housing, (because I can't decide which one I like) the sights, the grips, the ambi safety, and the slide serrations.

On the sights, I loved the night sights on the loaded model, until I shot with a flashlight, and discovered that they're not necessary. As a civilian, I'm going to do my best not to shoot in the dark, at an un-illuminated target, and with a target in enough light to identify, sights stand out as a black silhouette.

As a coincidence, I had just decided, about a month ago, that the reason the loaded model is easier to draw than My Beloved Milspec is because the loaded model has the stock cocobollo grips, and the milspec has the Pachmyers. I'm seriously considering buying a set of identical grips.

I don't like the ambi safety on the loaded model. I can't shake the feeling that something can snag on and brush the right side to "fire" when I don't want it to. In addition, the right side has loosened up, and moves when it's locked. I've taken two separate shots at changing it out, and I've ruined two new safeties. Furthermore, I haven't found a GI thumb safety to buy, which is what I want.

The slide serrations make no difference to me, I don't use them. Cosmetics, in general, make no difference to me. The Brown ejector is still proud of the back of the slide, there is still a SS plunger tube on a Parked gun, and I haven't blended the beavertail into the Milspec yet.

Function first, cosmetics later, if I get around to it.

The mainspring housing makes a significant difference in how the two weapons feel. I go back and forth, and as soon as I make up my mind, I'll make them both the same. At the moment, I'm leaning towards flat, because it's easier to reach the magazine catch with my strong thumb with the flat housing.

I participate in another sport, diving, and in both sports, I use the same rig the same way for the same reasons every time. I've been involved in two honest-to-god emergencies under water, and there's no time. In diving, the first thing that happens is the worst thing that can happen: your breathing triples, and multiplies the time pressure.

Having no time at the moment of truth is why I only have two weapons, and why I want them as close to the same as I can get them. I don't want to remember which grip to use, and I damn sure don't want to have to remember which sight picture to use.

The other lessons from scuba are the elimination of points of failure, (like an ambi safety) and the principle of not using hardware as a substitute for training, and introducing points of failure in the process. (Like ambi safeties and night sights.) In scuba, we call that a "convolution".

I'll never own a "target" gun, and I'll never own a gun that I don't carry. I shoot what I carry, and I carry what I shoot.

I don't want to talk, think, argue, remember, consider or change when it's time to shoot.

Great thread, 'Tuner!

8/8 edited for grammer.
 
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Preachin' to the Choir

Nine by said:
"
You do get rather preachy and, though I'm sure it's unintended, often come across as "I am the most studious among you, so heed this..."
____________________

Ahhhh! Now we get to the heart of the matter! I'm afraid that some
may have misunderstood my approach, which is rather to provoke careful
thought rather than challenge a preference or modus operandi...It probably
goes back to a time that I was sometimes charged with indoctrinating
some very gung-ho but young Marines into a whole different world than
they were prepared for during boot camp and AIT...I also taught them
weapon maintenance in a different environment than they had in boot camp and AIT...and things were very different there. Some things just aren't covered in the manuals.

I don't mean to preach, nor would I want anybody to assume that I feel that my way is the only way...only to have them consider all the angles. Angles that may never come, but are possible nevertheless.

But mostly, threads like this one are meant to provoke a discussion of point and counterpoint just for the sake of hearing from all corners and experiences because...it also causes me to consider my own viewpoints
a second or third time. This is often best accomplished by invoking a debate.


Good thread...Standin' by for more input. I remain, above all, a seeker of information and a student of weaponcraft. See...I'm still tryin' to learn
a few more tricks myself...old dog that I am.;)
 
I guess modern warriors don't share the opinions of older ones. All the new 1911's specified for military and LEO usage have beavertails, low profile Novak type sights and many have front strap checkering. These aren't intended as range guns. Consider the SA Pro's of the FBI SWAT, the MCSOCOM Det 1, the new MEUSOC 1911, LAPD's SWAT TLE's and numerous other LEO agencies.

Everyone has a different opinion and change doesn't come easy. My Dad wouldn't own an automatic transmission in a car until 1964, he didn't trust them. He passed away last year never owning a car with power windows or power locks........"you can get trapped in there."

Each to his or her own.
 
These days it is difficult if not impossible to buy anything that hasn’t been “duck-butted†except for the least expensive Mil-Spec models from different manufacturers. Clearly the traditionalists are loosing out to the competitor crowd when it comes to accessorized 1911 pistols. The more extreme designs I think, look grotesque, but to each his own. I suspect the traditional grip safety will disappear soon after the Old Fuff’s time runs out.

Well Fuff I think you might be pleased to know everything that's old is new again they just call it retro instead of old. Ted Yost is offering his *1 package and I've seen other 'smiths offering retro or 'Old School' packages. There's a reason Springfield Armory has introduced the GI models and I'll bet the good old basic Milspec is their best selling model ever.

I think it has more to do with fashion than function though. These things go in cycles. And some of the modern gadgets do have value to allot of people. Tuner mentions he doesn't like ducktails(neither do I) because they don't offer a 'spot weld' but doesn't like a checkered frontstrap because he can't change his grip on the fly????? But hey, I've never fired a shot at a human so what do I know? In my book anything that helps people shoot their weapon with more comfort, confidence or proficiency as long as it doesn't hinder concealability shouldn't be didmissed over what are probably aesthetic reasons.
 
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