Why no CC at gun shows ?

[Double Naught Spy]

Because people are stupid and not to be trusted.

That is how those in charge see it.

Can't say I blame them.

Funny thing, more often than not at the ones in the DFW area, it is the dealers that screwup.

 

[GLOOB]

Cuz gun shows are run by pro 2A people with common sense.

If a person with too many screws loose happened to drop his last marble at a gun show, the organizers could say, "Look, CCW is explicitly forbidden. Too bad criminals and nut jobs don't follow the law."

Meanwhile, if you CCW, just keep it C'd, and all is good. The fact there are so many guns and ammo around, and the fact that there is a good chance that some of the vendors if not patrons are CC'ing despite the signs, is probably what prevents gun shows from being a regular target of armed robbery and nutjob shooting sprees to begin with.

 

[Warp]

Cuz gun shows are run by pro 2A people with common sense.

If a person with too many screws loose happened to drop his last marble at a gun show, the organizers could say, "Look, CCW is explicitly forbidden. Too bad criminals and nut jobs don't follow the law."

Meanwhile, if you CCW, just keep it C'd, and all is good. The fact there are so many guns and ammo around, and the fact that there is a good chance that some of the vendors if not patrons are CC'ing despite the signs, is probably what prevents gun shows from being a regular target of armed robbery and nutjob shooting sprees to begin with.

What law?

 

[Ignition Override]

A few sellers have suspected that some very unbalanced people have intentionally put some rounds into guns at shows.

At our recent show, a seller told me that years ago somebody put 9mm rds. into several 9mm handgun chambers during one show.

 

[bigfatdave]

who's paying for the police at the show, anyway?

 

[BSA1]

I'm not breaking any law or regulation of any kind. Other people do not get to choose when I can and cannot carry, because my state has pre-emption. It is precisely for situations like this that the law was enacted.

Again, it really sounds like you are only angry because my state's laws are more permissive than yours.

Do your state laws also protect you from civil lawsuit and judgment which can just as bad or even worse than criminal prosecution and conviction?

Second if you are in so much fear of your life why are you even going into the building anyway?

Boy oh boy. A good lawyer sure would have fun making you explain reason #2 why you are on the witness stand defending yourself from reason #1.

 

[Hapworth]

Law-abiding gun owners are supposed to be respectful and -- um, law abiding, right?

When you decide to carry a concealed firearm and attend a "no loaded guns" event, chances are you already know that policy will be in effect and that CCW holders are not meant to be exempt.

When you arrive and present your ticket for entry, you get asked if you have any loaded guns; you are CCing, but you say, "No" anyway, which is a big fat lie. In Virginia, these gun checkers are either sworn police officers or are overseen by sworn police officers, so you're effectively lying to a LEO who is acting in the course of his duties. If you're caught, you could face charges for that. At the very least, you could be made very uncomfortable for a good while, and you could lose that gun for a while as well.

You then enter, and every minute you are knowingly and blatantly violating the rights and/or wishes of that venue/host/organization, yet you expect them to respect your rights and/or wishes.

If something goes down, what are you going to do? If you draw, you will be revealing your lie. If you don't want to reveal your lie by drawing, then why are you carrying? NDs sometimes happen at gun shows, but armed assaults are pretty rare. How would you propose to stop an ND or shield yourself from one with a concealed handgun?

Doesn't seem very rational to me.

It is both eminently appealing and quite convenient when reading a thread of more or less informed and impassioned debate on a controversial subject that you discover someone has posted the exact thoughts and position you were summoning the not always dependable will to make yourself.

Bullseye, beatledog7.

 

[Hapworth]

If you would like to discuss reactions to be swept by a loaded gun, start a thread on the topic.

This seems a coy reply where a direct one is warranted.

I read your original comment about getting swept by a Bubba tinkering with a loaded gun as implying you would respond in kind. You wrote:

If he sweeps me with that loaded gun my reaction is the same as anywhere else, regardless of the sign that may or may not be posted at the entrance.

If you're not indicating bringing your concealed piece into play, why does your admittedly unclear reply refer to your "reaction" being "regardless" of whether or not there's a stated no loaded guns policy?

How would a no guns policy have any connection to your reaction if your reaction didn't involve flouting it? Why reference it otherwise?

The question's worth clarifying in this thread. If you were implying something other than drawing and didn't word it well, nothing wrong with acknowledging and addressing that. If on the other hand your comment was exactly as it seems but you'd rather not make that explicit on record, nothing wrong with making that clear, either.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

A few sellers have suspected that some very unbalanced people have intentionally put some rounds into guns at shows.

At our recent show, a seller told me that years ago somebody put 9mm rds. into several 9mm handgun chambers during one show.

Usually such stories are about the antis trying to do this, apparently to get gun shows closed down. Nobody has ever come up with a credible first hand account.

 

[Win73]

I hope you boy wasn't hurt too badly.

Wow Win73, glad the guy's hand was in the way and your son is alright!

My son was very fortunate. If that guy hadn't had his hand in the way, my son could easily have been killed. The bullet would probably have gone into his lungs. As it was only one of the fragments that hit him penetrated. The others left red welts on his back and left side. And one cut a slit as it passed through his pull over sweat shirt.

At the emergency room they X-rayed him and saw that one fragment had penetrated. The doctor asked him if he wanted it removed. He said it would probably never bother him. My son asked how long it would take to remove it. The doctor said it might take 15 seconds or it might take 45 minutes. My son said he would prefer to have it removed. The doctor made a slit with a scapel over one of the red welts. He was then able to remove it with a pair of tweasers. It took about 45 seconds.

The thing that worried us was the fact that the bullet passed through the guys hand and had his blood on it. In settleing with the guys insurance company we insisted that he have a blood test run. Thankfully it came back negative.

 

[Warp]

How would a no guns policy have any connection to your reaction if your reaction didn't involve flouting it? Why reference it otherwise?

I referenced it because it is kinda sorta the topic of this discussion.

The question's worth clarifying in this thread.

In your opinion, perhaps. Seems a bit off topic, but sure, why not:

IMO far too many people haven't figured out that the goal is to NOT GET SHOT, and that getting off the X and getting behind cover are the best ways to do this. I don't know why people jump to the conclusion that you are going to shoot the guy who is poorly handling a gun and happened to sweep you with it. I also don't know why people think pointing a gun at a guy who might have his finger on the trigger of a loaded gun makes him less likely negligently pull it.

You get off the X. You get behind cover. You tell the person in no uncertain terms that you do not want the gun pointed at you. They will almost surely stop pointing it at you or not point it at you again. They will probably be apologetic or sheepish about it. If not, then perhaps they didn't learn their lesson or realize their mistake and you should then be reporting them and their actions to the authorities. In in the unlikely but not impossible event where they get openly hostile and point the gun at you intentionally and menacingly, all bets are off.

 

[cheeze]

I am amazed at how freely some of us just volunteer away our constitutional rights. Some of these posts translate to me as:

-Since a sign is posted to not carry loaded weapons, it is now the law.
-You are not to trust yourself with a well concealed weapon.
-Law enforcement officers are everywhere at all times and invincible.
-The second amendment is a privilege, not a right.
-Criminals don't exist around gun shows.

 

[Warp]

I am amazed at how freely some of us just volunteer away our constitutional rights. Some of these posts translate to me as:

-Since a sign is posted to not carry loaded weapons, it is now the law.
-You are not to trust yourself with a well concealed weapon.
-Law enforcement officers are everywhere at all times and invincible.
-The second amendment is a privilege, not a right.
-Criminals don't exist around gun shows.

To be fair, cheeze, the counter point would be: Private property rights are important. The Second Amendment does not apply to a private property owner/manager instituting a rule against loaded guns. You can always choose to not visit the gun show if you believe your 'rights are violated' by not having a loaded gun.

 

[cheeze]

I am not obligated by law to comply, and I am not obligated by law to disclose. Some folks may be, and then they have to factor that into their decision making.

If you go to a place where there is a sign stating that your underwear must be on backwards, but no-one is going to check and no-one will ever see, are you going to switch it before going?

Private property rights ARE important, I agree, hence the right to remove anyone who isn't complying with your rules. If they ever found out I have my underwear on the right way, they should have the right to have me leave. If they want me to leave for no reason, they should have the right to make me leave. If I don't tell them and they don't know, then who cares?

If they ask, then I have to tell the truth or a lie. I prefer not to lie even if it's inconsequential. In that case, I probably will render the firearm and have it checked in.

 

[beatledog7]

Cheeze, I don't see any of that (Post 88) in this thread.

-Since a sign is posted to not carry loaded weapons, it is now the law.

In some states, that is exactly how the law works. In others, such signs don't have the force of law, but any such sign anywhere expresses the wishes and rights of the property owner, and is to be respected by those who wish to be considered respectful. Entering in a non-compliant status is both dishonest and disrespectful. If you can't comply, go somewhere else. Nobody is forcing you to attend. Warp got this exactly right in Post 89.

-You are not to trust yourself with a well concealed weapon.

It's not a matter of you trusting yourself. It's about the venue being able to trust that you as an attendee are being honest regarding your status WRT loaded firearms. They have that right--it's their event, after all.

-Law enforcement officers are everywhere at all times and invincible.

Nobody is saying anything like that. LEOs are on site (at least in my state) to provide a deterrent to criminal activity, but also to oversee the application of the no loaded guns policy. The point that was made is that they are present as opposed to being blocks or miles way, seconds from action as opposed to minutes.

-The second amendment is a privilege, not a right.

Attending a gun show is a privilege, one for which you must temporarily suspend your 2A rights if a no loaded guns policy is in effect. If you can't do that, you should decline the privilege of attending. Imagine you're in a movie theater, and just as the show begins two guys start a loud conversation. Do they still have freedom of speech? Yes, but as patrons of the theater they must voluntarily suspend it while the show is on. Otherwise they are violating the decorum of the venue, and they will be asked to leave. Same thing at the gun show.

-Criminals don't exist around gun shows.

While NDs are sadly common at gun shows, armed assaults are quite rare. If violent crimes happen at all, they happen in the parking lot, where the no loaded guns policy (at least in my state) doesn't apply.

 

[beatledog7]

IRT Post 90:

Sign at venue: "Underwear must be on backwards for entry."

Me to buddy: "I can't comply with that policy, and I can't enter in good conscience with my skivvies on rightways. Let's go somewhere else."

Buddy: "Agreed. We're outta here."

That's how it works.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Honestly, I just ignore the sign. I also don't put my meathooks on my firearm in public. If I'm carrying at a gun show, it stays in the holster, under my shirt. No touching. I won't even pull it out at a gun store. I've seen guys at the counter at gun shops actually pull the gun right out of the holster and start showing it to another customer or the clerk for a repair or something. My jaw drops every time.

 

[Birch Knoll]

I also don't put my meathooks on my firearm in public. If I'm carrying at a gun show, it stays in the holster, under my shirt. No touching. I won't even pull it out at a gun store.

And if everyone did this, CC'ing at gun shows would not be an issue.

I've seen guys at the counter at gun shops actually pull the gun right out of the holster and start showing it to another customer or the clerk for a repair or something. My jaw drops every time.

Unfortunately, it only takes a few of these guys to make a no-guns policy necessary in the crowded environment of a gun show. All it takes is one meathead who wants to test a holster for fit with his loaded carry gun. How many gun shows are meathead-free?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

That's why I choose to ignore the signs and carry anyways. Can I get thrown out if I get caught? Yep. Actions have consequences. But I also trust myself to mitigate those possible consequences by choosing to act in a responsible way and not get caught. I am only responsible for my own actions, but I am wholly responsible for my own actions.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Two people, a 4 year old boy and a man went to the ER yesterday morning because of an accidental discharge at a gun show in Mississippi. They were standing in the lobby waiting to enter when a bullet came through the wall. I do not know if the shot was fired inside the show or if it came from outside but they were both hit in the legs with bullet fragments.

 

[Warp]

Two people, a 4 year old boy and a man went to the ER yesterday morning because of an accidental discharge at a gun show in Mississippi. They were standing in the lobby waiting to enter when a bullet came through the wall. I do not know if the shot was fired inside the show or if it came from outside but they were both hit in the legs with bullet fragments.

Would be interesting if the negligent discharge came when somebody was unloading their gun in order to comply with the rules before entering.

 

[Art Eatman]

Four pages? Let the poor old horse go on and die plumb dead.