Why No Other 30 Carbine Rifles?

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ThomasT

ThomasT

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Other than the M1 Carbine and the Marlin Model 62 lever action I do not know of any other commercialy made rifles that take the 30 carbine round.

I have wondered why Ruger doesn't tweak the Mini-14 action and chamber it for the 30 carbine round. If they made it so it would use the standard mags so much the better. Or why doesn't CZ chamber the 527 carbine for the 30 cal round? Or ever an H&R Handi Rifle in 30 carbine? That would be a neat little rifle. How about a Ruger bolt action in the compact series?

There is a thread here right now on Speers new Gold Dot load. New ammo but a lack of new rifles. Everyone seems to complain about the Auto Ordnance copy and its not really new anyway.

So who else wishes there were more choices for this round?
 
Very interesting post, Ratshooter. For some reason I like the 30 Carbine cartridge, having two M1 carbines and a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in this caliber. I would also buy a Marlin 62 if I came across one. I am going to state that their unpopularity is because of two reasons, one, the several millon M1 carbines that have been on the market for many years as mil surplus and through the CMP; and secondly because the 30 Carbine round is a very poor cartridge proformance wise. It is less powerful than the 357 Magnum in the same bullet weight, and the military load with the FMJ bullet is unacceptable for hunting, plus the fact it is not the most accurate round either. With SP bullets it's adequate for game up to a large ground hog or a fox. Having said all that, it's just a fun plinking round using the GI M1.
 
It does kinda feel like it's due for a comeback in sporting rifles.

Some people may reply that there are too many ballistically superior alternatives these days. While this is certainly true, that doesn't stop us from rocking our other retro cartridges -- most of which are much older than .30 carbine.

With that said though, I'm personally probably not interested. :)
 
At one time, Olympic Arms announced a 30 carbine AR-15, but I don't know if they ever produced any or not.

Tony
 
Probably because there are so many other cartridges that out perform the M1 Carbine round are available today. I have an M1 Carbine becuse of the historical importance. I have a bunch of other rifles that would be the first "go to" for most everything out there, including zombie attacks. Looking back though, the M1 Carbine prior to the 1960's would have been the top notch "go to" rifle, because there was nothing else out there like it cheaply available that worked as well. The multitudes of SKS's that came in during the 90's pretty much ended the "cheep rifle" reign of the Carbine.

If I remember right, I think Whitman (SP?) used an M1 Carbine as a sniper weapon from the tower at the University of Texas to great effect. Imagine someone using an M1 Carbine in that act today being met with returned fire from the multitudes of AR15's and AK's out there in private hands (though I might choose my L1A1).
 
I have a '69 gold spike winchester 30-30 that I've never even shot, ammo is just rediculously expensive. Hell 7.62x54 is cheaper.
 
Thanks for your replies. I know the round isn't much in the punch dept. but that doesn't stop it from being useful. I got a rem pump 410 express in a trade many years ago. Paid $125 for it. I put it in the local paper and sold it for $250. I could have sold a truck bed full of those guns in just one weekend. The 410 isn't a powerful round either but folks sure like them. Plus ammo is stupid expensive and they still sell the guns.

The 30 carbine is in the same slot. Its small lightweight and cheap (used to be anyway) and will do in a pinch for a game getting survival round. Lots of deer have been killed with it. You just have to allow for the lack of power.

I wish Winchester instead of saddling shooters with those goofy super short magnums that started down the road to being obsolete as soon as the doors closed would have set up and made 30 carbines again. It would be an alternative to the AR choice and they might be in business still today.

It just seems that a round that gets so much attention deserves a few more rifles to shoot it in. How about a CZ 527 that takes the mags for the M1 carbine?
 
I think it's mainly because it's an old round.
Plus, there are better rounds available. With the popularity of AR rifles in 5.56mm./.223 today, I think those rifles have pretty much come to dominate the niche the M-1 Carbine filled.
BTW ... For magnum rounds to better the .30 Carbine I would think both the .357 & .44 Mag would have to be fired from a carbine or rifle length barrel. I have a levergun in .44 magnum, and if nothing else I will say the recoil of the .44 Magnum is more "impressive" than the carbine. IIRC the stats of the .44 mag out of an 18" in barrel are better too.
But I believe the .44 out of a revolver wouldn't quite make it to .30 Carbine.

I have a M-1 Carbine my father brought back from Korea. I have it to this day. As others have said it's a great plinker. I wouldn't feel too outgunned wiht it in a SHTF situation if I had to, but I have a M4orgery, a Sig Sauer 556 and a WASR 10 that would be my first choice for serious stuff before the carbine.
 
I have always wondered why the P-90 and/or PS-90 was not chambered for it. Seems like the perfect cartridge for the task. Unfortunately the carbine is blowback operated and all it's parts are proprietary so modifying it to take the cartridge would be quite an undertaking. I'd still like to see it done though, 50rnds of .30Carbine is nothing to sneeze at.

:)
 
I have wondered why Ruger doesn't tweak the Mini-14 action and chamber it for the 30 carbine round.
Click to expand...

Why? To me the reason the Mini-14 sells well is precisely because it handles very much like the M1 Carbine but uses cheaper, more powerful, and more readily available ammo -- that's the reason I've got one.
 
It would make for a perfectly usable 150yd varmint and predator cartridge with the proper bullet. Along the lines of the .25-20, .32-20 (heavy loaded in strong guns) and the new .327Federal. I'm sure the new Gold Dot is a good one, it's my preferred jacketed bullet in other chamberings. Looking forward to trying the 115gr in my .32's. Personally I'd rather see the .327Federal in a levergun than anything in .30Carbine.
 
I would like to see the Ruger .44 carbine or 44/77 bolt action in 30 carbine. I don't know why, it just seems like it would be a fun fun. A little bolt action would be great for pesting out in the desert.

Craig has a good point though, a 1894 in .327 would do about the same thing and be easier to reload.
 
Sounds like you guys like carbines as much as I do. I have marlins in 32, 357 and 44 mag plus a camp carbine in 9mm. Had a Hi-Point 9mm till my son "Borrowed" it. Also have an SKS paratrooper that has only been shot 80 times. And I have a new mini-14 with the tapered barrel.

I have looked at the M1 Carbines but with all the mix match of parts and high prices I have stayed away from them. I do like the Auto Ordnance newly made guns. I just have to convince myself I need one $600+ dollars worth. And since I handload get over the idea that its going to throw my brass all over hell and half of Georgia. That was the appeal of a bolt or single shot in 30 carbine. I suppose I just like the idea of something different.

Forgot to add that I get a little over 1900fps with an 85gr bullet and a little over 1600fps with a 100gr bullet using Hodgdon L'il Gun max loads from the 32 mag in the Marlin lever gun. The 327 should beat this by at least 100fps or maybe a little more. With Marlin shutting down and moving I doubt you will see a gun from them for this round. I think the 327 is even less popular than the 32 mag and will be as long as ammo prices remain high and the economy is bad. Its just not a good time to release a new cartridge.
 
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The 30 carbine is outdated. It served a wartime role and really has no other practical purpose. If they could have gone back to WWII and done it again I am sure they would not have made the 30 carbine. For all of you out there that want one there are 10 times over more people who would never want to see one.

Mini 14s are awesome because they have all the great qualites of the old M1 and not so many of its bad features. Its number one bad feature is its caliber.

Sorry to be such a buzzkill but there are plenty of rounds out there now that do the 30 Carbine round a few better in every category.
 
Regal "I have a '69 gold spike winchester 30-30 that I've never even shot, ammo is just rediculously expensive. Hell 7.62x54 is cheaper."

OK, but how does this remotely apply to the topic of this thread? 30-30 is not the same cartridge as the .30 Carbine and 7.62x54 is about cheaper than anything because it is surplus dumped on the market currently in huge quantities.

The 30 carbine was never much of a round, I think it only gained popularity decades ago when ammo and carbines were cheap and plentiful and now everyone is in love with .223/5.56. . Maybe folks will say the same about AR's in 40 years?? As said by others there are much better suited calibers out there
 
I'd like to see a few more "popular" guns chambered in .30carbine...maybe the price of it would come down ;)
 
The 30 carbine is outdated. It served a wartime role and really has no other practical purpose. If they could have gone back to WWII and done it again I am sure they would not have made the 30 carbine. For all of you out there that want one there are 10 times over more people who would never want to see one.
Click to expand...

All of you that feel this way, just pack up those wimpy old carbines and that poopy ammo and send it all to me! I'll be happy to see 'em and give 'em a good home.

If you just HAVE to hunt animals and/or humans, I suppose it's not the greatest round out there. But it's damn hard to beat for plinking at soda cans full of water!
 
I want to see it the other way around. I love the M1 Carbine. It is a handsome little gun that is light weight and nimble, but the .30 carbine leaves a lot to be desired. I would love to see the M1 Carbine in "real" intermediate rifle calibers or heavy duty handgun calibers. Mmmmmm... Just think of a .460 S&W (auto rim?) in a light little carbine, or the M1 in .223, 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel... Or .41 Rem Mag... How great would that be?
 
wally summed up my views.

If my brand-new AO Carbine had not suffered a jammed bolt in 2007, even though the repair under warranty was free, my perspective would be quite different. Movement of the old GI Carbines bolts feels more solid than the AO bolts.

While my former AO was back at the factory, I bought a Mini 14 built in 1990 (sticker says "Property of State of KY").
It had two stovebolts-the Ruger magazine was very dry-only during the first few of 1,500 rds. and No FTFs or other gun malfunctions. Only used affordable Wolf ammo. The old Mini is as reliable as a buddy's WASR "AK clone".

Unless you have a dependable rugged M-1 Carbine with cheap ammo (and an econ. future supply source), can't see that it would compare for frequent practice. Besides the Mini 14, the SKS "Paratrooper's" handiness and its ammo price might work well.
 
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Why so few other 30 carbine rifles is that the carbine cartridge makes a lot more sense in the GI .30 us carbine firearm for which it was designed. I have a us carbine, but never use it any more. i am thinking of a folding stock and using it for a sneaky gun bag. I think with a a lever gun, bolt gun, or break open single shot that other cartridges are more useful. Only if a lever gun were specifically designed around the carbine to make it superlight and slim would it offer an advantage. We are are talking about a .30 caliber frame and instead of one designed around larger rounds.
One of the pistol caliber carbines could be setup to handle it. Perhaps HiPoint could make such a gun. But it would be inferior to the original gun.
 
As far as it not having any practical purpose now, I couldn't disagree more. I think it is the perfect HD round and carbine match-up. I don't see how some more modern guns or lever guns would be a bad thing at all.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you. As a close quarters SD gun the M1 Carbine is more powerful than probably 95% (or more) of handguns, and is most likely more user friendly than the 5% or so that it is less powerful than. Most folks gripe with the 30 Carbine is as a rifle cartridge.
 
Aw nuts... and I just ordered an M1 from the CMP. :rolleyes: I reload everything I shoot save rimfire, and I read ballistic charts and reloading tables like some folks read the sports page. I get that there are higher performing rounds than the 30 carbine. But as a fun and nostalgic plinker, I don't see where you could improve.
As to more rifles in it... ammo cost/availability has to be the main hangup. There are so many more intermediate cartridges that are easier on the wallet.
 
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