Why No Other 30 Carbine Rifles?

[ThomasT]

when I started this thread it was a to say I think this cartridge has a lot more potential use than just the M1 platform. I would love to have a barrel for my handi rifle in the chambering. I don't really know why since I have a new "Talo" 357 with an 18" barrel that came with open sights. It will do as much or more than a 30 carbine round would do in the same platform.

I guess the smallness and compactness of the round has appeal. Sorta like a 410 has a certain magnatism to it. I know with reloading it could be turned down for a good small game round. I mentioned I have a marlin in 32 mag and some of the funnest loads are with a 76gr lead bullet and 2grs of Titegroup. These loads go 930fps and are as quiet as CB 22s.

I also think the M1 and the little 30 caliber round is a marriage made in heaven. Its just needs a few offspring to round out its life.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

I have owned a Marlin 62 Levermatic and currently own a IBM made WWII carbine. One of the guys at the club had a .30 Carbine upper for his Ar15. That's about it in .30 Carbine caliber as far as rifles I have seen.

For either hunting or defense the .223 and 7.62x39 are more effective rounds (flatter trajectory, more punch, etc.) If I were going for the Ruger carbine, it would be a .223 Mini14 or a 7.62x39 Mini30, rather than a .30 carbine version. Locating .30 carbine ammo to shoot my M1 in the local military matches is a problem: recently ammunition is available only certain times of the year.

The .30 M1 Carbine was developed from the .32 Winchester self loading round which was itself a sporting semi-automatic equivalent of the the .32-20 leveraction rifle/revolver round. A .30 Carbine is good for whatever varminting or hunting one would use a .32-20 for. Game bigger than a rabbit but smaller than a deer.

As I have heard, the noted ballistic expert Martin Fackler kept a M1 Carbine loaded with Winchester softnosed hollowpoint rounds as his home defense weapon of choice. Forensic ballistic evidence rates the .30 carbine FMJ as equivalent to the standard .38 Special 158gr roundnose and the .30 softnose hollowpoint as equaivalent to the .357 Magnum, fifteen or thirty times w/o reloading at greater practical range than a .38/.357 handgun.

I just like it for the WWII history (my dad was a BAR man in WWII and did not think much of the carbine). I guess the .30 carbine cartridge is just wedded to WWII history as far as most folks are concerned

 

[Justin Holder]

Don't get me wrong, I like the little 30 carbine. But I just wonder why it wasn't originally chambered in 45 acp, seems like that would have simplified things quite a bit.

 

[MudPuppy]

Or even 9mm. But yeah, love the carbine.

What about that IDF project based on the M1, the Magal, maybe?

In the end, I think we just have "better" options.

 

[Palehorseman]

I have fond memories of the M-2 carbine I was issued. It may not have been a powerful cartridge, but when you flicked that lever to FA, it would empty a 15 rd mag in the blink of an eye and it could lay down one hell of a controlled field of fire.

 

[earlthegoat2]

As far as it not having any practical purpose now, I couldn't disagree more. I think it is the perfect HD round and carbine match-up. I don't see how some more modern guns or lever guns would be a bad thing at all.

I tend to think an SKS or AK would fit this role better with a more readily available cartrdge. I am unsure of penetration/over penetration issues associated with the 7.62x39 round but the only rounds I would want defending me are ones that would over penetrate anyway.

It really is a moot point for me though since I live alone and have no rifles as HD weapons. If the M1 Carbine has a role today I suppose it would be for HD. I also think another carbine that is useless for pretty much everything is good for HD and that is the PS90.

 

[TechBrute]

You can definitely argue that "better" rounds exist, but can anyone make a case that the .30car does anything "better" that we should have more platforms for?

How do the ballistics compare to something modern like the 5.7? A PS90 and FN57 vs M1 Carbine and whatever pistol that shoots .30car.

 

[Maverick223]

How do the ballistics compare to something modern like the 5.7?

Vastly superior in the energy (2.5 times greater) and trauma (larger caliber with greater expansion equates to greater wounding potential) department. This advantage becomes less important when chambered for FA weapons due mostly to the better handling characteristics of the 5.7x28mm. This is a non-issue with autoloaders as both are very quick to get back on target with.

A PS90 and FN57 vs M1 Carbine and whatever pistol that shoots .30car.

I like the .30Carbine much better, but I really like the PS-90 platform, combine the two for the best PDW platform, but if forced to choose the current configurations I would take the M1 Carbine every time. FWIW, I don't believe either the 5.7x28mm or the .30Carbine makes a good pistol cartridge because both are designed and optimized for medium length barrels. You loose quite a bit of velocity and gain quite a bit of noise and concussion when chambered in a pistol. That said, I would still like a AutoMag III in .30Carbine, but I would want a less efficient shorter bbl than the one proposed.