La Pistoletta
Member
I might move to the US some day. I have a lot to do before then, though, and my entire family is here.
Why Stay
- Thread starter hrgrisso
- Start date
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308win
Member
If anti's are moving from a state in which they were dissatisfied with the living conditions and then working to implement similar living conditions the logical person would ask "should I be doing this". Of course, logic has nothing to do with knee-jerk actions, but one still has to wonder what people can be thinking.
I fortunately haven't heard of a lot of people moving from California to Ohio lately - at least not legal residents.
Since you were asking for a more European perspective, here's mine.
I'm originally from Bavaria. I moved from there when I was young, when my parents emigrated to the United States to further my father's career opportunities. Even so, we didn't sever our ties with the native land - I visit on a regular basis, and I have close relatives living around Munich. My family still carries on a variety of German traditions.
I currently live in Florida, which is one of the more gun-friendly states in the US. Even so, if the opportunity to return to Germany presented itself (meaning I could maintain or improve upon my present economic position - a somewhat unlikely prospect, given the state and nature of the German economy), I would probably follow through without much hesitation. Though I love shooting and I love my collection of German and Swiss-made firearms, I would willingly sacrifice most of them if necessary (or at least do what I could to bring them with me). Obviously, German firearms law is much more restrictive than it is in Florida, though it is still possible to own a private collection (I do believe most people qualify to do this under the "sport shooting" regulations).
I'm not sure I can say any more than what hasn't already been said by several of the other posters: there's more to life than guns...and, believe it or not, the United States does fail to offer certain freedoms that I could get elsewhere. In Germany, for instance, you can still legally drive as fast as you'd like on several portions of the autobahns (in spite of the green lobby's efforts) and you can legally purchase (without parental consent) beer and wine starting at age 16. Quite frankly, I drive and I drink (but never together, of course
) far more often than I shoot, so technically I would've been better off in Germany for those things, no?
I greatly prefer German/European culture (e.g. food, sports, beer, cars) to anything I can get in Florida, but I must acknowledge the wonderful economic opportunities and political freedoms available here - largely the reason my family came here in the first place...I myself am thoroughly Americanized when it comes to a variety of political issues (proud libertarian here). While I still must deal with a variety of draconian laws and social customs which were enacted in Florida's distant or more recent past, I am at least fortunate enough to live in a place which easily facilitates my sport shooting hobby. There is no perfect place to live on this planet - if there were, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
I'm originally from Bavaria. I moved from there when I was young, when my parents emigrated to the United States to further my father's career opportunities. Even so, we didn't sever our ties with the native land - I visit on a regular basis, and I have close relatives living around Munich. My family still carries on a variety of German traditions.
I currently live in Florida, which is one of the more gun-friendly states in the US. Even so, if the opportunity to return to Germany presented itself (meaning I could maintain or improve upon my present economic position - a somewhat unlikely prospect, given the state and nature of the German economy), I would probably follow through without much hesitation. Though I love shooting and I love my collection of German and Swiss-made firearms, I would willingly sacrifice most of them if necessary (or at least do what I could to bring them with me). Obviously, German firearms law is much more restrictive than it is in Florida, though it is still possible to own a private collection (I do believe most people qualify to do this under the "sport shooting" regulations).
I'm not sure I can say any more than what hasn't already been said by several of the other posters: there's more to life than guns...and, believe it or not, the United States does fail to offer certain freedoms that I could get elsewhere. In Germany, for instance, you can still legally drive as fast as you'd like on several portions of the autobahns (in spite of the green lobby's efforts) and you can legally purchase (without parental consent) beer and wine starting at age 16. Quite frankly, I drive and I drink (but never together, of course
) far more often than I shoot, so technically I would've been better off in Germany for those things, no?I greatly prefer German/European culture (e.g. food, sports, beer, cars) to anything I can get in Florida, but I must acknowledge the wonderful economic opportunities and political freedoms available here - largely the reason my family came here in the first place...I myself am thoroughly Americanized when it comes to a variety of political issues (proud libertarian here). While I still must deal with a variety of draconian laws and social customs which were enacted in Florida's distant or more recent past, I am at least fortunate enough to live in a place which easily facilitates my sport shooting hobby. There is no perfect place to live on this planet - if there were, we wouldn't be having these discussions.
I recently had a very intense discussion with some South Africans about this very issue. The long and short was that for most, the breaking point is when the oppression becomes a direct physical threat to you or your family.
IMHO, by that time it is too late.
IMHO, by that time it is too late.
First, not all of these places are equal. NY and California have restrictive gun laws (by U.S. standards), but they permit you to use them for self defense with little problem. Same with some countries in Eastern Europe IIRC.
Second to answer your question, the vast majority of American's lives do not revolve around guns, nor do they decide to live based on gun laws. And in countries, such as the UK, where gun ownership for self defense is virtually unknown outside of a small number of criminals, only a tiny minority would even think about gun ownership as a criteria of where to live.
Got to look outside of THR to answer this question-most people are not as gun obsessed as we are
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Blackbeard
Member
It's a simple cost-benefit analysis. My friends and family are here. My job is here. If I were to leave, I'd have to change jobs, possibly for less money, and move away from all my social ties. That's the cost. The benefit would be the right to carry. Sorry, but the cost outweighs the benefit. Now if things were to change, and say I lost my job, well then carry laws would definitely become a factor in choosing where I live.
P.S. I do have the option of moving across the river to Iowa, but we can't carry over there either, so it's no benefit.
P.S. I do have the option of moving across the river to Iowa, but we can't carry over there either, so it's no benefit.
Yellowfin
Member
I am temporarily a guest of California because my soon-to-be wife is doing her job training here. She is doing it here because the program she is in is basically the psychology equivalent of Harvard and she has worked very hard to deserve the honor of being at the top of her field. She asked me if she should take the position and I said yes on that basis only. However, I must say that it has been educational for us both. It is not that the majority of people here are for the asinine, draconian, idiotic, and altogether disgraceful state of politics and law in this state, but that the vast majority are ignorant or complacent or have other fish to fry which drastically dilutes the effectiveness of the comparative few who are positive, pro active firearms rights people such as myself. More people than not are open to ideas that I may present but have little knowledge about the matter or experience, and the rest of life dwarfs our message by comparison. Quite simply, those who would act in sufficient number to change things either have left because they refused to tolerate it--and that was the purpose of the laws in the first place, to make them leave so they wouldn't vote against it. Those remaining are either in the closet, discouraged, marginalized (living in counties where both sides of the ballot are bad), socially discouraged, or dug in.
Some within the ranks of the pro 2A in state express dislike for me because I refuse to acknowledge the status quo as acceptable or be satisfied with mediocre, lukewarm stances or capitulation. They either think I make all of us look bad or come across to them as insulting. Well boo hoo, I hurt their feelings because I say that winning a nickel while losing a dollar isn't winning. "You haven't been here!" I get a lot. Well, no, I was born a free man. I know what it's like and I refuse to lie to myself that anything less is acceptable. Nor should they but they somehow twist themselves around accepting the status quo, drink the poison in their cup, and "live with it." That's "political reality." Sounds a lot like a couple of businesses I used to work for where I was told "Let's see what happens," meaning they didn't take control of the situation and simply took whoever would do so for them--both were bought out, one of them gutted and the other closed. I don't take kindly to having less recognition of rights because I crossed an imaginary line that's nothing more than one rock over in the desert or a halfway point between two mountains. I don't take kindly to having the Bradys run amuck elsewhere in the country because people don't kick them to the curb here instead of bending over and taking whatever they give and saying thank you. "Oh but they have so much money!" Sue them and take it! People get sued every day for all manner of crap these days, so it's not farfetched at all to go after them for libel and defamation for lumping us in with criminals with every effort at law and social stigma they try to push. If you can sue anyone on on the mere suspicion of them saying something regarding race, you should be able to sue the ever loving **** out of them for saying something negative about gun owners...and it's about damn time we did so every day until there is no anti gun movement anymore.
The people of California can be changed. The entire situation can be worked out but it takes the one thing that is not being done at all by the pro-2A movement: MASS MARKETING. And not just to the usual people. I'm yet to see the range and NRA meetings look like what I see at the grocery store and at the laundry room and getting them to do so is the only way to win in CA but nobody's even trying that.
Some within the ranks of the pro 2A in state express dislike for me because I refuse to acknowledge the status quo as acceptable or be satisfied with mediocre, lukewarm stances or capitulation. They either think I make all of us look bad or come across to them as insulting. Well boo hoo, I hurt their feelings because I say that winning a nickel while losing a dollar isn't winning. "You haven't been here!" I get a lot. Well, no, I was born a free man. I know what it's like and I refuse to lie to myself that anything less is acceptable. Nor should they but they somehow twist themselves around accepting the status quo, drink the poison in their cup, and "live with it." That's "political reality." Sounds a lot like a couple of businesses I used to work for where I was told "Let's see what happens," meaning they didn't take control of the situation and simply took whoever would do so for them--both were bought out, one of them gutted and the other closed. I don't take kindly to having less recognition of rights because I crossed an imaginary line that's nothing more than one rock over in the desert or a halfway point between two mountains. I don't take kindly to having the Bradys run amuck elsewhere in the country because people don't kick them to the curb here instead of bending over and taking whatever they give and saying thank you. "Oh but they have so much money!" Sue them and take it! People get sued every day for all manner of crap these days, so it's not farfetched at all to go after them for libel and defamation for lumping us in with criminals with every effort at law and social stigma they try to push. If you can sue anyone on on the mere suspicion of them saying something regarding race, you should be able to sue the ever loving **** out of them for saying something negative about gun owners...and it's about damn time we did so every day until there is no anti gun movement anymore.
The people of California can be changed. The entire situation can be worked out but it takes the one thing that is not being done at all by the pro-2A movement: MASS MARKETING. And not just to the usual people. I'm yet to see the range and NRA meetings look like what I see at the grocery store and at the laundry room and getting them to do so is the only way to win in CA but nobody's even trying that.
MiddleAgedKen
Member
Although we are generally fond of Northeast Ohio, we may have to relocate when I finish my doctorate (it hasn't been cheap, and I'm going where opportunity takes me).
I have ruled out, at least while current circumstances are in place, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, California, and Hawaii for their cost of living, gun laws, official corruption, and general propensity of their respective governments to treat productive citizens as tax cows. Mrs. NotMiddleAged has ruled out a few others for climate (too much snow, not enough sun). I imagine we'll be able to find a happy medium.
I will say, though, that while gun rights aren't the sole consideration, I would be hard put to it to move to a state that was not "shall issue."
I have ruled out, at least while current circumstances are in place, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New York, Maryland, New Jersey, Illinois, California, and Hawaii for their cost of living, gun laws, official corruption, and general propensity of their respective governments to treat productive citizens as tax cows. Mrs. NotMiddleAged has ruled out a few others for climate (too much snow, not enough sun). I imagine we'll be able to find a happy medium.
I will say, though, that while gun rights aren't the sole consideration, I would be hard put to it to move to a state that was not "shall issue."
MMCSRET
Member
I was born and raised in Idaho and Montana. Traveled the world every continent but Europe and Antarctica. Loved West Australia and Some of the S.E. asian nations. Hated East Africa, Middle East is Ok mostly. Came back to Idaho and Montana, but retired at least 5 hrs drive from my nearest relative. I came here because I have and use guns recreationally every day. Found South America to be a broad mix, Much like the states here. But I do love the hunting and fishing in Southern Argentina.
Great Britain
Europe
Eastern Europe
Russia
It would be very interesting if all of these folks moved the USA. Why not add all the Japanese?
Too simple a question, IMHO.
When you have a hammer, everything is a nail.
When you have a gun, everything is about gun rights. Would you live in a theocratic tyranny that allowed you to have guns. Saddam's Baghdad had gun stores. It's easy to get guns in Lebanon.
So?
Europe
Eastern Europe
Russia
It would be very interesting if all of these folks moved the USA. Why not add all the Japanese?
Too simple a question, IMHO.
When you have a hammer, everything is a nail.
When you have a gun, everything is about gun rights. Would you live in a theocratic tyranny that allowed you to have guns. Saddam's Baghdad had gun stores. It's easy to get guns in Lebanon.
So?
Sounds to me as though you'd appreciate Florida. Loose restrictions on firearms purchases and ownership/possession, shall-issue CCW permits, stand-your-ground castle doctrine, no state income tax. Cost of living is very reasonable in most areas. There's even a de facto 80 mph speed limit on the interstates. Just stay away from the southeastern portion...
Why do you stay?
'Cause moving here and doing it legally is a bloody nightmare.
If you "jump the wall" via Canada or Mexico or overstay your visa it's easy to enter but then you can't legally work, open a bank account, get an SSN or credit history, get a driving licence (in most states) etc etc.....Oh or pass a NICS check.
Take the example of Great Britain, It's even been barred from the annual Green Card lottery.
Make it more practical to immigrate and more people might come over, although most of their reasons will have little or nothing to do with firearms.
'Cause moving here and doing it legally is a bloody nightmare.
If you "jump the wall" via Canada or Mexico or overstay your visa it's easy to enter but then you can't legally work, open a bank account, get an SSN or credit history, get a driving licence (in most states) etc etc.....Oh or pass a NICS check.
Take the example of Great Britain, It's even been barred from the annual Green Card lottery.
Make it more practical to immigrate and more people might come over, although most of their reasons will have little or nothing to do with firearms.
I'm here in CA because the income I can earn here is higher compared to some fixed expenses than anywhere else in the country I could move and find work. Sure, there are some limits on the types and kinds of firearms I can own here, but because I have more disposable income, I can actually afford a higher number of total guns and I can afford more ammo with which to shoot.
It ticks me off every time they pass another gun law, but for now, I'm staying and fighting the trend. Maybe in a few years I'll reconsider, but right now it makes financial sense to be here.
It ticks me off every time they pass another gun law, but for now, I'm staying and fighting the trend. Maybe in a few years I'll reconsider, but right now it makes financial sense to be here.
jfountain2
Member
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 125
Why leave a place that has tough gun laws or out right gun bans? Why not stay and fight for your rights? If AZ banned guns tomorrow would you get up and move or would you stay and work towards electing officials that would help restore your rights?
mojohand
Member
I agree with a lot of my fellow Californians. I have lived in California my whole life and for the most part I have loved it. But I will be the first to say that the State I live in now is not the same State my Father and Grandfather grew up in. People form elsewhere see California as this ultra-liberal place, but it really is not. For the most part we have been hijacked by the very populated big cities such as LA and San Francisco. Most of California is moderate to right leaning politically, IMO, but lack the conviction and drive to change much. So the squeeky, liberal wheel gets the grease and we have our current state of the state.
As for leaving, tere are too many other positives. Maybe one day I'll leave, but for now I'll keep fighting to change what I can.
As for leaving, tere are too many other positives. Maybe one day I'll leave, but for now I'll keep fighting to change what I can.
ZeSpectre
Member
You left out Washington DC.
And I finally DID have enough and the wife and I MOVED OUT.
(it certainly wasn't -just- about firearms ownership but it -was- about rights and violations thereof)
Some days I wish we could simply empty and level DC and start that city over again with population randomly selected from across the U.S.
And I finally DID have enough and the wife and I MOVED OUT.
(it certainly wasn't -just- about firearms ownership but it -was- about rights and violations thereof)
Some days I wish we could simply empty and level DC and start that city over again with population randomly selected from across the U.S.
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If the only thing in your life that matters to you is how easy it is to own, acquire, and carry firearms, I would say you probably have a pretty narrowly focused life.
No place is perfect. Texas is nice to gun owners but has killer bees and fire ants. Illinois is less kind to gun owners but has no fire ants or killer bees.
No place is perfect. Texas is nice to gun owners but has killer bees and fire ants. Illinois is less kind to gun owners but has no fire ants or killer bees.
Yellowfin
Member
It's a pretty accurate political barometer. If you don't want a socialist government meddling in your life by taking your money and your rights and telling you what to do, as the vast majority of us don't want, looking at how they treat the aquisition, ownership, and carry of firearms is a reliable way of gauging how they do with other things and how much political clout you have in that area.
hacksaw
Member
OK HRGRISSO, now finish the freakin' story!
CH47gunner
Member
I live in California, moved here in 1972 after 3 yrs. in the Army. From Montana where there was NO economic chance. When I graduated High School, 3 out of 4 graduates were moving out of state.
I got an education & worked in the Electronics Industry (Silicon Valley & others) for 30 years. Due to quite a bit of luck, some stock stuff, & a great wife, I "RETIRED" at age 54.
I would have never had this opportunity had I stayed in Montana. I'm not saying you can't make a living in Montana but, in California there are way more options.
The Draconian gun laws have absolutely nothing to do with my choice to live here. I vote Republican every four years. Hopefully some day, the rest of these clowns will wake-up and vote too.
Bruce
I got an education & worked in the Electronics Industry (Silicon Valley & others) for 30 years. Due to quite a bit of luck, some stock stuff, & a great wife, I "RETIRED" at age 54.
I would have never had this opportunity had I stayed in Montana. I'm not saying you can't make a living in Montana but, in California there are way more options.
The Draconian gun laws have absolutely nothing to do with my choice to live here. I vote Republican every four years. Hopefully some day, the rest of these clowns will wake-up and vote too.
Bruce
Tom Fury
Member
Why Stay UK
I ama an American living here indefinitely on a personal assignment.
I have a single friend and a couple who are friends who just attended a conference in Lakeland Fla. They had never been to the states before and their reaction was intriguing.
Thank God, they said the people were great; good service, individuals encountered very polite, respectful, kind.
Ate in a selection of restaurants; Outback, Bob Evans, Golden Corral, Dennys; very impressed by quality and portion size; these are not poor folks, but they mentioned they are just not used to that kind of prosperity and found it a bit overwhelming.
Impressed with size of roads and intersections; just the space of it all.
Single guy is a cop in a bigger city (Reading) and he spoke with American cops; they treated him well, he was impressed by their gear, and the overall feeling of secutrity and police presence (I know what you're thinkin', but you should see how it is here; I even watched a ciop show the other night where the Chief Inspector threatened to call the "Armed Response Unit" and the BG laughed, knowing it would take them an hour to get there...).
At any rate, they found it a bit overwhelming; the single guy said he was impressed but just couldn't do it. Too big, too much.
A big deal to just move away from what you know.
Cheers, TF, Who wants an American Cheeseburger in the worst way...
I ama an American living here indefinitely on a personal assignment.
I have a single friend and a couple who are friends who just attended a conference in Lakeland Fla. They had never been to the states before and their reaction was intriguing.
Thank God, they said the people were great; good service, individuals encountered very polite, respectful, kind.
Ate in a selection of restaurants; Outback, Bob Evans, Golden Corral, Dennys; very impressed by quality and portion size; these are not poor folks, but they mentioned they are just not used to that kind of prosperity and found it a bit overwhelming.
Impressed with size of roads and intersections; just the space of it all.
Single guy is a cop in a bigger city (Reading) and he spoke with American cops; they treated him well, he was impressed by their gear, and the overall feeling of secutrity and police presence (I know what you're thinkin', but you should see how it is here; I even watched a ciop show the other night where the Chief Inspector threatened to call the "Armed Response Unit" and the BG laughed, knowing it would take them an hour to get there...).
At any rate, they found it a bit overwhelming; the single guy said he was impressed but just couldn't do it. Too big, too much.
A big deal to just move away from what you know.
Cheers, TF, Who wants an American Cheeseburger in the worst way...
As some one who has moved to and lived in a foreign country I can attest to you that it is not a trivial or easy thing.
The legalities and costs of moving from one culture to another aside there are some issues that become a bigger deal than one would think. Simply put the culture shock can be huge.
It is often the little things that bug you and start to build up. Food was a big one for me. Many of my favorite things become raritities or mere memories. BTW I was in the habit of eating peautbutter and drinking rootbeer much more regularly than using a firearm for defense. Guess which one I thought about and truely missed more.
People, mannerisms, and customs were are different. Learning a new language is not only difficult but is frustrating and and a long process. Being seperated from your family can be difficult, and when you are talking about moving continents not just states its even more difficult.
In short there are a great many issues and challenges associated with leaving one country for another. You may find you are more pleased with the gun laws but less pleased with many many other things.
Now why dont people beat cleats from California? I dont know and if the states surrounding me are any indication a lot of people are in fact doing just that.
The legalities and costs of moving from one culture to another aside there are some issues that become a bigger deal than one would think. Simply put the culture shock can be huge.
It is often the little things that bug you and start to build up. Food was a big one for me. Many of my favorite things become raritities or mere memories. BTW I was in the habit of eating peautbutter and drinking rootbeer much more regularly than using a firearm for defense. Guess which one I thought about and truely missed more.
People, mannerisms, and customs were are different. Learning a new language is not only difficult but is frustrating and and a long process. Being seperated from your family can be difficult, and when you are talking about moving continents not just states its even more difficult.
In short there are a great many issues and challenges associated with leaving one country for another. You may find you are more pleased with the gun laws but less pleased with many many other things.
Now why dont people beat cleats from California? I dont know and if the states surrounding me are any indication a lot of people are in fact doing just that.
Something else to think about...
Shall-issue CCW is relatively new in a lot of places. A lot of us already had careers, businesses, property, families, etc. in, say, California, when the trend towards shall-issue really happened.
See above:
I like Montana. However, a lot of people in California moved here from different places, because California offered something more, or even because they thought that those other places sucked.
Job and business opportunities, climate, recreation, standard of living, tolerance of people who are "different", etc. were much better here, in their view, than where they came from.
Most of us on THR got by without CCW before it became more common in the US. Californians still do -- but wherever we may have come from, CCW wasn't allowed there either, at least when we left. Do you expect a lot people to up and move back to a place they eagerly left, just because they can legally carry a pistol there now (as long as it doesn't "imprint", they never draw it, and nobody sees it, and they aren't in a prohibited place...)?
Personally, I've never really felt that I needed a concealed pistol when I'm traveling around the city. I'd like to have one, I believe I have the right to keep and bear arms, but honestly, "may issue" is not something that impacts my daily life much. I live in a safe place.
And until recently, most of you who have a CCW permit didn't have one, either.
Gun store shelves weren't exactly bristling with EBR's a few years back, anywhere, legal or not. That's a relatively new trend, and many people don't miss something they didn't have originally. Here, we have to jump through a few more hoops to get an EBR, though we still can, and do.
So here, things haven't changed all that much in a substantive way. Other places have changed while we remained the same.
Again, we might move. And gun rights figure into this. Right now, here, I make decent money, better than I could in a lot of places, and I have actually been able to afford to buy guns, enough to supply all the neighbors with a serviceable one, if Mad Max comes to pass. If I were broke, I wouldn't notice gun laws.
If you're young, live in a studio and have a McJob, by all means, move. It will never be so easy again.
But seriously, it is a bit odd that people who won the right to get a CCW permit in their states sometime last year -- and whose laws governing transporting a handgun without a license were or still are more restrictive than California's ever were -- are suddenly wondering how in the world we can possibly live in a "may issue" state without starting an armed revolution. Puh-lease.
Shall-issue CCW is relatively new in a lot of places. A lot of us already had careers, businesses, property, families, etc. in, say, California, when the trend towards shall-issue really happened.
See above:
I like Montana. However, a lot of people in California moved here from different places, because California offered something more, or even because they thought that those other places sucked.
Job and business opportunities, climate, recreation, standard of living, tolerance of people who are "different", etc. were much better here, in their view, than where they came from.
Most of us on THR got by without CCW before it became more common in the US. Californians still do -- but wherever we may have come from, CCW wasn't allowed there either, at least when we left. Do you expect a lot people to up and move back to a place they eagerly left, just because they can legally carry a pistol there now (as long as it doesn't "imprint", they never draw it, and nobody sees it, and they aren't in a prohibited place...)?
Personally, I've never really felt that I needed a concealed pistol when I'm traveling around the city. I'd like to have one, I believe I have the right to keep and bear arms, but honestly, "may issue" is not something that impacts my daily life much. I live in a safe place.
And until recently, most of you who have a CCW permit didn't have one, either.
Gun store shelves weren't exactly bristling with EBR's a few years back, anywhere, legal or not. That's a relatively new trend, and many people don't miss something they didn't have originally. Here, we have to jump through a few more hoops to get an EBR, though we still can, and do.
So here, things haven't changed all that much in a substantive way. Other places have changed while we remained the same.
Again, we might move. And gun rights figure into this. Right now, here, I make decent money, better than I could in a lot of places, and I have actually been able to afford to buy guns, enough to supply all the neighbors with a serviceable one, if Mad Max comes to pass. If I were broke, I wouldn't notice gun laws.
If you're young, live in a studio and have a McJob, by all means, move. It will never be so easy again.
But seriously, it is a bit odd that people who won the right to get a CCW permit in their states sometime last year -- and whose laws governing transporting a handgun without a license were or still are more restrictive than California's ever were -- are suddenly wondering how in the world we can possibly live in a "may issue" state without starting an armed revolution. Puh-lease.
While I would really like to leave CA after I am done with school, it will be hard to do. My family is here, as is our ranch. I do not like the politics in CA, but it will come down to job opportunities. All things being equal, I would choose a state in which I agreed with the majority of their politics. I can deal with the family not being that close, but I don't know if I can deal with that AND all the other things I would be missing moving from CA.
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