bdickens
Member
Spoiler alert: clickbait videos with totally unrealistic "tests" prove nothing other than some people have too much time on their hands.
Will your pistol operate under worst case conditions without malfunction?
- Thread starter Alllen Bundy
- Start date
Howland937
Member
If the time comes that I really need my carry gun and it...
...is buried 6" deep in mud, either I am too or I likely don't have time to look for it.
...is frozen in a block of ice, either I am too or I likely don't have time to wait for the ice to thaw.
...fell off a 10 story building, either I did too, or I likely don't have time to go downstairs to fetch it.
...is submerged at the bottom of a lake and I didn't sink with it, it'll have to stay there 'cause I can't swim for crap.
...is buried 6" deep in mud, either I am too or I likely don't have time to look for it.
...is frozen in a block of ice, either I am too or I likely don't have time to wait for the ice to thaw.
...fell off a 10 story building, either I did too, or I likely don't have time to go downstairs to fetch it.
...is submerged at the bottom of a lake and I didn't sink with it, it'll have to stay there 'cause I can't swim for crap.
lysanderxiii
Member
You know, the Army stopped doing the "dunk-in-the-mud" test, right after the M14-FAL-M16 era testing.
Nothing ever passed them, and no useful information was gathered.
Tests have to be realistic to have meaning. That is why the car crash tests are not at 55 mph, you aren't going to be walking away from such a collision without injury
Nothing ever passed them, and no useful information was gathered.
Tests have to be realistic to have meaning. That is why the car crash tests are not at 55 mph, you aren't going to be walking away from such a collision without injury
Old Dog
Member
Some are even created by folks with an agenda, i.e., someone who "demonstrates" that his pistol of choice will pass these "tests" while its competitors will not. Witness the dude who concluded the AREX pistol was superior to SIG, HK and GLOCK, just because it passed his "grueling testing regimen" while the others could not..
Not saying some of these tests are gamed... oh, wait, yes I will. Watch some of the videos carefully on a good monitor in HD.
Not implying that anyone gets any money out of promoting certain manufacturers over others, but the ad sales in a niche market video don't typically make anyone rich and with one's own channel, you've got to have an substantial number of subscribers to break even; and who's paying for the equipment, guns and ammo anyway?
Just watching guys shooting or talking about guns is boring. Too many uninteresting and un-funny dudes populating YouTube who will never be the next Jarred Taylor or Matt Best. Okay, so I will watch Hickok45 if he's shooting something of interest to me
sigarms228
Member
Gosh another YT clickbait video that is for entertainment at best but some will always take as gospel and cause them to lose sleep. If something like this was done by unbiased independent qualified testing organization that knows what they are doing making sure consistent contaminant application using multiple samples and takes into account other variable factors such as ammo and lubrication it would be interesting but it is not and in reality no one cares enough anyway to pay for such.
Another thing to keep in mind is what ones priorities are for reliability, durability, and performance. A mechanical design that favors one parameter may be not be optimal for other parameters, such as there are advantages and disadvantages for looser tolerances or different frame materials.
Also in reality who in their right mind would not at least field strip and do a quick cleanup and safety check if their firearm had been dropped in mud? Heck a barrel clogged with mud could be a freaking disaster with a firearm self destructing possible injuring the operator or possibly making the firearm inoperable without repairs. For those that say "but what if I was in a heated battle against multiple enemies when I dropped my weapon in the mud?" Well frankly you would pretty much be out of the game at that point anyway.
If one for whatever reason felt they needed to worry about mud problems with their firearms they are probably better of with a firearm that is much likely to better work in such conditions such as a revolver or longarm that has manually operated action OR carry a backup firearm.
Another thing to keep in mind is what ones priorities are for reliability, durability, and performance. A mechanical design that favors one parameter may be not be optimal for other parameters, such as there are advantages and disadvantages for looser tolerances or different frame materials.
Also in reality who in their right mind would not at least field strip and do a quick cleanup and safety check if their firearm had been dropped in mud? Heck a barrel clogged with mud could be a freaking disaster with a firearm self destructing possible injuring the operator or possibly making the firearm inoperable without repairs. For those that say "but what if I was in a heated battle against multiple enemies when I dropped my weapon in the mud?" Well frankly you would pretty much be out of the game at that point anyway.
If one for whatever reason felt they needed to worry about mud problems with their firearms they are probably better of with a firearm that is much likely to better work in such conditions such as a revolver or longarm that has manually operated action OR carry a backup firearm.
#1 YouTuber earns about 54million per year. With 128m subscribers. I think the highest gun channel is Demolition Ranch with 11m subscribers.
They earn between $2k to $15k per million views. (Not including their sponsorship $$$)
That can pay for a lot of guns and ammo.
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JeeperCreeper
Member
I don't care what anyone says, torture tests are always great entertainment!
Oh, I carry an M&P often which is on Garand Thumbs skin walker approved list.
Oh, I carry an M&P often which is on Garand Thumbs skin walker approved list.
This answer is correct.
How about something like a squib bullet lodges in the barrel; I had it happen with premium factory HP years ago, they replaced the 500 round case. Heard the difference when it fired and I stopped shooting. Would have been horrific if it had happened in a SD situation. I had to drive the stuck bullet from the barrel.
Other possibilities:
If your only gun is on belt you can't put hand on it without revealing you're carrying.
If your only gun is in pocket you can't quickly access it seated and access with weak hand (if needed) would be comically (maybe deadly) slow.
Have options: Gun on belt and a 2nd one in weak hand pocket.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,275
I agree. Aside from the entertainment they provide there’s not much practical value in them
Choctaw
Member
I like to watch most anything pertaining to firearms. I guess some of you guys would rather watch golf or soccer. 
Gordon
Member
I think one of the reasons the Military chose the Sig 320 format was the reliability under harsh conditions . The Fire control model is well protected and then the Grip module over that ! Pretty hard to get outside elements thru those two heavy plastic envelopes !
Old Dog
Member
Yep, there are a few out there who actually do well -- and they (like the guys on DR) -- are the one's making the more creative and interesting videos. The guys whose videos are basically one theme, showing them "testing and evaluating" (usually just pouring rounds downrange ) are boring. Frankly (and it's not solely because I'm an old curmudgeon), I'm not interested in watching twenty-something bearded dudes (especially the guys who have nowhere near my hard-earned fifty+ years of experience with firearms) playing with guns, no matter how awesome, with no real point to the production. It's no surprise that the folks actually earning money with internet videos are those with the highest production values, the best writing and actual humor that appeals to the firearms community. I do recall one DR video made a couple years ago with one of the most egregiously incorrect remarks -- made as a statement of fact by Matt -- that lost total credibility for me. I think one reason I always liked Best's videos (later BRCC) is that those guys are so good at spoofing the gun community, finding humor in all our traits and characteristics, spoofing the military, spoofing politicians, spoofing the anti-gun faction's idiocy, and all the while being entertaining with being only about the actual guns.
Yeah, but there are some folks out there making videos (that inexplicably to me actually garner a lot of views) whose videos, even though they might include a cool gun or two, are almost as boring a watching televised golf or soccer. By the way, you forgot bowling. Pro bowling is strangely still broadcast on sports television.
Give us a tl/dr? If we can't watch the video, we know glock fails apparently. What else, how do the others do?
StrykerByte.45
Member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2022
- Messages
- 279
Maybe they should have tried the Morgan Freeman approach.
OK, what is the Morgan Freeman approach? A calm voice in the background?
CapnMac
Member
Might be a better question is posed as "Can You Operate in Adverse Conditions?"
Cold, wet, and miserable is a real thing.
Wet, muddy, and spent is a real thing.
Overheated, sunblasted, and hot is also a real thing.
Age and fitness make a difference, too. A decade ago, I was both a lot more fit and a lot more Adverse-tolerant.
Cold, wet, and miserable is a real thing.
Wet, muddy, and spent is a real thing.
Overheated, sunblasted, and hot is also a real thing.
Age and fitness make a difference, too. A decade ago, I was both a lot more fit and a lot more Adverse-tolerant.
Zendude
Member
I bought some bad flannel cleaning patches. The more I cleaned the gun with them, the dirtier it got.Mine was "the person buys the gun and keeps it in the underwear drawer for ten years" type lint test.
Riomouse911
Member
Like @Mike J just posted, I guess I was just watching some guys tossing a bunch of nice guns into the mud and stepping on them. 
Better their guns than mine. I have carried my guns from 120+ blowing-dust summer heat to driving snow-freezing sleet, and in all weather in between. I even wore almost all the finish off a SIG P226 slide in a matter of weeks the first rainy winter I was authorized to carry it.
But I refuse to abuse them.
Stay safe.
Better their guns than mine. I have carried my guns from 120+ blowing-dust summer heat to driving snow-freezing sleet, and in all weather in between. I even wore almost all the finish off a SIG P226 slide in a matter of weeks the first rainy winter I was authorized to carry it.
But I refuse to abuse them.
Stay safe.
Ignition Override
Member
A literal "worse case" these days often is being attacked, physically, and you then need Both hands in a struggle.
There often won't be a spare hand available as you fight somebody and can't separate from him/her.
My concentration is 98% on my Back-up Plan, often avoided with situational awareness (observe people before leaving car, gas station door etc, turning your back while opening car door etc).
Began attending Krav classes three years ago, twice a week with many different tactics, as I've stated before.
If A) your handgun Does Not function, or B) you are in a bitter, almost breathless struggle, maybe taken to the ground and don't want to get stomped (literally: very common these days), what is your back-up plan?
Maybe calmly think about it as it happens. Ok.
We train in Krav class to be breathless and still fight. I wish that my carry guns were a magic safety shield (they are touted as such), but attackers hide their intentions, and mostly cause a brain freeze in victims..
There often won't be a spare hand available as you fight somebody and can't separate from him/her.
My concentration is 98% on my Back-up Plan, often avoided with situational awareness (observe people before leaving car, gas station door etc, turning your back while opening car door etc).
Began attending Krav classes three years ago, twice a week with many different tactics, as I've stated before.
If A) your handgun Does Not function, or B) you are in a bitter, almost breathless struggle
, maybe taken to the ground and don't want to get stomped (literally: very common these days), what is your back-up plan?Maybe calmly think about it as it happens. Ok.
We train in Krav class to be breathless and still fight. I wish that my carry guns were a magic safety shield (they are touted as such), but attackers hide their intentions, and mostly cause a brain freeze in victims..
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OP
OP
Alllen Bundy
Member
To those of you that want to complain that the tests are unrealistic, or you would not likely ever have this happen to you in a self defense situation, let me remind you that life is unpredictable and that truth is stranger than fiction.
To illustrate this point, let me explain to you why you need circuit breakers in your house to prevent mouse piss from causing your house to burn down! True story.
A friend called me complaining that one of the circuit breakers in his house was tripping. I drove to his house and disconnected every electrical device on the problem circuit. But the circuit was still measuring like a short circuit. I took some measurements and did some calculations to determine where inside the wall the short was occurring. Fortunately the garage was on the other side of the wall so I could remove the sheetrock from the garage side and not muss up his living room wall. The first thing that I noticed was that some of the jacket over the Romex wiring was missing and it exposed the paper wrapping over the insulted conductors. I also saw lots of seed shells laying in the insulation was well as mouse turds. I followed the Romex and it was severely charred where it was going through a hole in a pine 2 x 4! If the circuit breaker had not tripped when it did the house would have burned down!!! But how did the Romex fail? For whatever reason the mice were pissing on the paper insulation and that piss was absorbed by the paper wrapping and it migrated about 9" in each direction from where the insulation was chewed away. The urine caused the PVC insulation to break down and begin conducting. Eventually it conducted so much that the PVC electrical insulation got hot enough to char!
Here in Minnesota, Land of 10,000 lakes and a whole lot of swamps, we have wet conditions, muddy conditions, and freezing conditions. We have winter road slop consisting of snow, ice, sand, silt, anti-freeze, and oil. If you drop your pistol in that crap and it might not operate.
Do as you will, but I prefer to use a pistol that is the less likely to fail under adverse conditions. That means a striker fired pistol, with a plain trigger with no dongles that is hinged at the top.
To illustrate this point, let me explain to you why you need circuit breakers in your house to prevent mouse piss from causing your house to burn down! True story.
A friend called me complaining that one of the circuit breakers in his house was tripping. I drove to his house and disconnected every electrical device on the problem circuit. But the circuit was still measuring like a short circuit. I took some measurements and did some calculations to determine where inside the wall the short was occurring. Fortunately the garage was on the other side of the wall so I could remove the sheetrock from the garage side and not muss up his living room wall. The first thing that I noticed was that some of the jacket over the Romex wiring was missing and it exposed the paper wrapping over the insulted conductors. I also saw lots of seed shells laying in the insulation was well as mouse turds. I followed the Romex and it was severely charred where it was going through a hole in a pine 2 x 4! If the circuit breaker had not tripped when it did the house would have burned down!!! But how did the Romex fail? For whatever reason the mice were pissing on the paper insulation and that piss was absorbed by the paper wrapping and it migrated about 9" in each direction from where the insulation was chewed away. The urine caused the PVC insulation to break down and begin conducting. Eventually it conducted so much that the PVC electrical insulation got hot enough to char!
Here in Minnesota, Land of 10,000 lakes and a whole lot of swamps, we have wet conditions, muddy conditions, and freezing conditions. We have winter road slop consisting of snow, ice, sand, silt, anti-freeze, and oil. If you drop your pistol in that crap and it might not operate.
Do as you will, but I prefer to use a pistol that is the less likely to fail under adverse conditions. That means a striker fired pistol, with a plain trigger with no dongles that is hinged at the top.
But I refuse to abuse them.
Its mud... It will rinse off and possibly leave a scratch, thats about it. Not sure if I would consider that abuse.
Riomouse911
Member
The stepping on it while in the soppy mud I would call abuse. Grinding grit into the actions can’t be good for the internals and who knows how long it may stay gritty even after cleaning a couple of times. As you said about scratching, its very easy to scratch bluing with the bits of mud-grit on guns doing that. (With some having DLC or other finishes maybe not, but not all of my stuff is so finished.)
Honest wear on a gun from use is, to me, a sign of someone who uses their tools but cares about them. With some of my guns I have to rely on them to function when needed, with all my others I expect them to. I like keeping my stuff nice, but a stock ding from a hunting trip or bluing wear from holster use is something that happens. That is ok by me.
It is America, if folks want to wreck their stuff or treat it in a manner like that, maybe even to make some money doing it, they can have at it.
Myself, I prefer to pass. Stay safe.
sevt_chevelle
Member
So how many times have YOU thrown those P365s in the mud, dragged through sand to find out if they operate?
