Zero Tolerence

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GambJoe

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I guess I read to much. One thing I run across to often is when a child gets killed by a gun. I'm not talking about a drive by, there's to many of those. I'm saying kids dying accidentally in the home, in the car, where they have access to a loaded firearm.

The numbers are there. If a gun is locked, yes it you can't get to as fast as you should. But the odds of a kid getting injured or killed are greater then your needing to get to it as fast as you can. I want to see the stats on a homeowner getting killed because he had unlock a gun when kids around.

To many kids are dying for no reason. It's not how you were brought up or the rare occasion a 6 year old saves momma's life.

It's about zero tolerance.

No social Darwinism please.
 
Teach them from a young age that they make a loud bang, are scary, and dangerous, and to never touch them without permission, and they'll lose all interest. Generally the noise is enough to do that. Or let them get kicked by a good-sized rifle to seal the deal. When they're old enough you can teach them there's guns that don't kill on both ends.
 
WardenWolf said:
Teach them from a young age that they make a loud bang, are scary, and dangerous, and to never touch them without permission, and they'll lose all interest. Generally the noise is enough to do that. Or let them get kicked by a good-sized rifle to seal the deal. When they're old enough you can teach them there's guns that don't kill on both ends.
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I strongly disagree with this statement. While you premise may hold water often, my decades of experience working professionally with kids tells me otherwise. So does my own experience. Yep, my parents taught me gun safety. So did the NRA through safety programs I had in the early 60's. Yet I still did stupid things with guns in the country when my parents were away (and I was a pretty good kid). So did other young people I know that had similar training. So do many, many trained kids every day of the year. And these are reasonable normal kids, being kids.

Curiousity may be dulled somewhat with good instruction, but won't be killed. Nor will the POWERFUL pull of peer pressure. My daughter was well trained in firearms and was disturbed that I would not give her the combination to my gun safe. I told her my main concern was that other teenagers would taunt her for the combination when I wasn't around and that it would be much easier on her to just honestly say she didn't know it. When I was home, my safe was unlocked and both of my kids could shoot at will (we live in the boonies). The situation changed when I was away.

Yes, well trained kids are less likely to get in trouble with firearms. But trained kids DO get in trouble with them on occassion. Deaths do result. Lose a child to death, as I have (non gun related) and you will understand how much it hurts. Don't let it happen to you.

My children have now been out of the house for years. When I am home, my guns are unlocked and some are loaded (and within reach). When we were raising our kids, we handled the gun thing differently.

BTW, there are safes for handguns that open almost instantly.
 
Teach them from a young age that they make a loud bang, are scary, and dangerous, and to never touch them without permission, and they'll lose all interest. Generally the noise is enough to do that. Or let them get kicked by a good-sized rifle to seal the deal. When they're old enough you can teach them there's guns that don't kill on both ends.
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Well, that's an option. :uhoh:

My choice has been 180 degrees from there, and I'm betting an awful lot that it works loads better.
 
While I prefer to educate kids on guns from a young age, if you've got kids who won't listen, that's a good way to scare them straight. One thing you CAN do is test them. Leave a gun unloaded, with no ammunition available, unlocked, but set up in a way where you'll know if someone messed with it. Tell them they know the rules and not to touch it. Check it often. If they've messed with it, you'll know and know you have to take a different tactic.
 
Zero tolerance, in any context, is really just zero thought.
Life is a bit complex, and complex problems are never solved by simple, one-size-fits-all answers.

And that is why politicians and administrators seldom "solve" anything. They want to "do something"...and they do. But the cure is often worse than the disease.
 
WardenWolf said:
While I prefer to educate kids on guns from a young age, if you've got kids who won't listen, that's a good way to scare them straight. One thing you CAN do is test them. Leave a gun unloaded, with no ammunition available, unlocked, but set up in a way where you'll know if someone messed with it. Tell them they know the rules and not to touch it. Check it often. If they've messed with it, you'll know and know you have to take a different tactic.
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And so they pass your 'test' the first time. Maybe the second and third time. Maybe more times. Maybe a month of this 'testing.' So you then load up the gun and ........... they FLUNK the test the very next time. Ooops!!!!!! There is way too much to lose playing this kind of game with your family's welfare.

Kids change every day, week, month, and year of their development. What they won't do today, they may very well do tomorrow or the next day. Bring peers into the picture and WATCH OUT!!

Did you drink before you were 21? Did you know it was AGAINST THE LAW!!! How about drugs, teenage sex, etc.? Growing up is tricky, full of potential pitfalls and wrought with bad decisions (even for those of the best families). Best keep guns out of the equation unless it is under your direct supervision or immediate permission (hunting alone with your ok, for example).
 
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It depends on your kids and your household.

Between my wife, my ex, and her ex, we have five boys. Number one is 15, impressionable, and loopy. He is easily pushed into doing stupid things. Number five is seven, autistic, and non-verbal. He has no concept of death or what guns do. When they are around, all guns are either locked up or on-body.

The middle three, which are the ones we have in the house the most often, are all trained and conditioned. We can literally leave our carry guns on the kitchen table, and they won't notice them. They have been shooting, they can recite the four rules, and follow them. With them, it is less important to ALWAYS keep everything locked up.

You have to be honest about your kids and your situation, and their friends.

More kids drown in backyard wading pools and five-gallon buckets than are accidentally killed with guns.
 
NOT UNATTENDED - period

I am a NRA life member and a HEARTY supporter of the RTK&BA = period.

that does not mean leaving ANY firearm loaded where a child [ under the age of consent,18'ish ] can find or unlock or by any means get their hands on it.

I also do not believe in leaving your car keys where you 'child' can find them and take the car - yes it happen VERY often.

And obviously if your "child" or any adult in YOUR house has issues that in any shape or form be considered deadly - you leave ALL weapons LOCKED UP IN A SAFE.

Or if the threat is too close - remove them from the house.

Adam Lanza ---- says it all.
 
"Zero tolerance, in any context, is really just zero thought.
Life is a bit complex, and complex problems are never solved by simple, one-size-fits-all answers."

Sorry You're wrong. I work in the oil industry where projects I've worked on both new construction and retrofit's where millions of man hours have gone injury free. Nary a cut.

You get I don't have to harness up, I been doing this for 20 years and it's all BS. Yet I haven't heard of anyone falling recently.

Is locking them up really that intolerable?

Zero is a workable goal.
 
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bhk in my opinion has it right. Kids will be kids. Way back when I was a street cop I used to carry my handgun home and put it in the hall closet, loaded. It became normal proceedure, and all 4 of my sons saw me do it. allthough I had major problems with 2 of the 4 kids, I never had a problem with any of the kids touching my handgun.

I used to have to qualify on a monthly basis, and when I took the gun home to clean it all 8 eyes were on me and the gun. That is where the safety end of it started. Separating the guns and the ammo etc. during cleaning. Then explaining to the kids the damage a firearm can do, and also taking the kids out to the range and demonstrating using a bar of soap with a .22LR and shooting the bar and showing them the damage a small .22LR can do to a bar of soap. Then let them compare a small .22LR next to a .357 or a .45. Next to get my point across I took another bar of soap and and completely annihilated the second bar of soap with the larger arm.

I still remember the looks on there faces after this demonstration. They all had their friends come into the house, and at that time my guns were in my vault. Never had a problem with any of the kids mishandling any of my guns when they were growing up. Naturally the two that never gave me any problems were both grown-up to be gun enthusiasts.
 
I'm not ever advocating leaving them unattended with a loaded gun. At least not until they're in their late teens. But you need to know if they're fishing.
 
Coming from a home where guns aren't the most normal thing (at least to the women:)), I can say that getting kids scared of guns isn't such a good thing. I myself am fifteen, and see the effects of gunphobia. Gunphobia, as I like to call it is an irrational fear of an inanimate object. My mother's side of the family suffers from gunphobia and it's kind of annoying when they label me as a nutcase of some sort simply because I enjoy firearms. Don't make guns something to fear. Don't create gunphobia.
 
There is understanding a gun enough to be afraid of what it can do, and then there is an irrational fear of guns because they are guns. I'll take respect of ability and a decent dose of fear for me and mine. And that does require them knowing what a gun is. You honestly have to see something dieing or failing to to understand what why though.
 
"More kids drown in backyard wading pools and five-gallon buckets than are accidentally killed with guns"

If this was a backyard wading wadding pool site 5 gallon bucket site I'd comment.

Sorry for getting on your nut but I'm sure everyone says not going to happen. then it does.
 
I educated my kids about gun safety, and I taught my kids to shoot. I also locked my guns up unless they were under my direct supervision. I still do.

There are many names for people who leave loaded guns unsupervised where others can find them, most of which are not fit to print here.

But I also have to agree with the post prior to mine.
 
Originally posted by Sam Haleva:
Gunphobia, as I like to call it is an irrational fear of an inanimate object.
Click to expand...

The actual term is "HOPLOPHOBIA" - described as an irrational fear of firearms.
 
We could always try trusting people to raise their own kids...

As a guy with no kids, I'll take that option, because I know many (most?) will disregard all the advice/opinions on this page anyhow ;)

TCB
 
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