Zeroing Home Defence and Self Defence

[Styx]

For those of you who carry an AK, AR, or long barrel pistol caliber pistols with braces in your car or for home defence, what do you zero them at? Do you set them up for 50 to 100 yards out even though there will never be a self defense justification at that distance, or at the sane distances as your handgund?

 

[briansmithwins]

I do a rough zero at 50 and fine tune the zero at 200 yards. With 556 out to 200 you won’t need to hold over or under for center torso shots. For really close range eye box shots you may need to offset.

BSW

 

[Tirod]

Do you set them up for 50 to 100 yards out even though there will never be a self defense justification at that distance

There's plenty of self defense at that distance. If someone is shooting at you with lethal force, then your response is justified. There is no tape measure declared as a maximum distance and the police don't unwind it to see if one shooting is legal and another isn't.

I sight in at whatever distance it takes to get the maximum flat travel of the bullet. It's known as point blank range, the bullet doesn't go up any more than it drops. You can hold dead on and the average projectile will usually rise and fall within about 4 inches, some out to 300m. I don't sight in short range and then have to compensate for even more bullet drop at the longer ranges.

Why? Its what you do for deer hunting - you never know were you will see it and at what range. As most deer are barely visible beyond 200 - 300 yards, if you can see it, put the crosshairs center mass and you should get a hit. In combat the research shows that most of the effective shooting is about 125 meters on average, some closer some further. Its a distance that the human eye can see distinct movement and actually react in time to place the shot.

As for close in shooting with a rifle and getting offset to hit - it's a six inch difference at most aiming at an 18 inch center of mass. If you are LEO working a hostage situation then you might need to know offset, with aggressors approaching I wouldn't worry about finesse. Rounds on target are what count.

One of the more interesting things that came out with the DC sniper shooting from the trunk of the car, was that most of the shots were around 200m. And the hype was that it had to be some highly trained and proficient sniper dude with extensive military experience. Talk to antelope hunters about their average shot and they would take 200m in a heartbeat if they could stalk and low crawl that close. Bean field whitetail hunters see 200m frequently and with a 2-9 variable they would get laughed at missing. Qualification on a military range requires hitting targets to 400 and further.

Life isn't a decaying suburbia with chain link ghettos or urban warfare, ask the citizens near our southern border what they have seen.

 

[Chuck R.]

50 and 200 here also.

I normally use the below TGT to zero at 25 with POI at the top of the circle, then confirm at 200.



As BSW said, it's just a matter on knowing (and practicing) your offset at the closer distances. A 200 yd zero equals about 7" drop at 300 which corresponds to most of my big game rifles. At 300 aim at shoulder/neck junction and it's COM.

 

[jmr40]

AR's are zeroed at 100. Not enough difference in POI between 50-200 to matter with a 100 yard zero.

 

[sarduy]

I zero mine at 50 yards. That give me a 50-200 zero.

 

[wiscoaster]

For .223/5.56 caliber ammo, a 25-yd zero should be roughly the same as a 100-yd zero (the bullet passes through both points in its trajectory). So, 25 yds should be a good zero for self/home defense as you're most likely not going to engage at any longer distance, and then your sights should also be set up for the longer distance, if that's what you need to use the firearm for other purposes. Regardless, it's a fine point and that ammo is going to be pretty flat out to beyond 100 yds anyway, and more than adequate for self defense whatever you choose to use. You've got a pretty big "kill zone" to work with -- you're not trying to make a 1 MOA group.

 

[caribou]

200 yards zero.
5.56, or 7.62, either way

 

[drobs]

For those of you who carry an AK, AR, or long barrel pistol caliber pistols with braces in your car or for home defence, what do you zero them at? Do you set them up for 50 to 100 yards out even though there will never be a self defense justification at that distance, or at the sane distances as your handgund?

Please stop with that nonsense. If someone is shooting at me from 50 to 100yds or more, I will return fire.

I zero the same - 25yds and then confirm my zero at 100yds. I've found that zero works to 400yds on steel gongs.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Trajectory of AR (5.56x45mm) and AK (7.62x45mm) ammo is pretty flat between muzzle and 100 yards.

 

[Styx]

Please stop with that nonsense. If someone is shooting at me from 50 to 100yds or more, I will return fire.

I zero the same - 25yds and then confirm my zero at 100yds. I've found that zero works to 400yds on steel gongs.

The fact is the overwhelming majority of self defense shootings and shoot outs do not happen at long distances. There's one anecdotal to every rule of course. That and the fact that I'm talking about short barrel AR pistol that I'm prioritizing home defense and close quarters shooting vs long distance shooting.

I don't want to debate opinions on that topic. I'm happy to agree to disagree. I'm just really interested in what others are zeroing their home defense (CQC) rifle caliber pistols at. Guess I should have worded my OP differently so that I wouldn't have to debate my personal opinion.

 

[Styx]

200 yards zero.
5.56, or 7.62, either way

If this with both rifles and short barrel .223/5.56 and 7.62 pistols?

 

[jmorris]

The fact is the overwhelming majority of self defense shootings and shoot outs do not happen at long distances.

Or with rifles, or long barrel pistols with braces.

I suppose the chance of a regular guy being involved in a CQB shoot out is already pretty slim and gets slimmer as we add stipulations. Sight height is a big factor between Point Of Aim and Point Of Impact with different zeros and some POA zeros are better than others at covering distances.

Looking at trajectory charts for different zero points, we can see that a 50 yard zero is also a 200 yard zero for the given load, without excessive rise over POA along the way. Might be why a lot of people prefer it to a 25 yard zero or even closer.



Edit: just noticed you had “pistol caliber” in the OP, the charts above are not for pistol calibers.

 

[nettlle]

Zero it at the distance you think it will be used for.

 

[12Bravo20]

For my AR's setup with a red dot or prism sight, I zero at 50 yards. for my AR's with iron sights I use the 36 yard zero. On my goto HD AR, I have a Swampfox Blade 1X prism with their Bullet Rise Compensating Reticle. It is sights in at 50 yards and has marks for 5, 10, and 15 yards. I have actually zeroed it at 10 yards using the BRC reticle and then verified it at 50 yards.

 

[briansmithwins]

7.62x39 doesn’t have a great trajectory like 556 does, so for those I still zero at 200 yards and just know I’m going to be 4-5” high at 100. It’s high enough to miss a headshot if you’re aiming center mass of the head in question. OTOH, torso center mass will get you hits out to longer than you’re likely to need to outside of a war zone.

I really like my AK and vz58 but 556 is just a flatter shooting cartridge and has better ballistics.

BSW

 

[Lo-Profile]

I use 25 meters for all my 5.56 / 300BO guns. If you use the same one for all of them is a lot easier to remember your hold over/under

 

[caribou]

If this with both rifles and short barrel .223/5.56 and 7.62 pistols?

For Rifes and Carbines. I would do the same with a braced pistol, my wife had an unbraced Draco and 200 yards from a rest wasnt hard at all.
I zero a pistol at 50 yards, but Im in the wide open, but , if I were in a city, 50 yards would be needed now and then I would think.

 

[WVRJ]

I use a 100 yard zero with a Leupold Mark AR scope with a drop dial.Yesterday was practice day for it,and I shot several rounds at 500 yards just to make sure the rifle and I are in tune.It's a M4 clone,and even with only a 16 inch barrel,milk jugs at 600 are in a world of hurt.My AR does the HD role,as well as the coyote/skunk elimination duty,so it routinely gets the call of duty.I would feel quite able to fight with it at long or short range.In close quarters,some may think the scope's detrimental,but it works well,and in really close quarters,instinctive snap shooting should be part of a practice regimen.Being able to move and quickly shoot where you look can be a life saver.

 

[Zerodefect]

100 yard zero.

 

[MI2600]

Are we still discussing home defense at 100 to 600 yards?
I tend to think in terms of a Win '97 riot gun loaded with 00 buck at 10 yards.

 

[jmorris]

We were discussing home defense at 100-600 yards as much as we were talking about shotguns at 30 feet.

 

[Steve S.]

I carried an M16A1 in the early ‘70’s for a living - I own two AR’s at present; it seems like crossing some strange boundary to carry it’s likeness around in my neighborhood for SD. I guess if I am anticipating a semi-auto firefight in my neighborhood, I have much, much bigger challenges than what my zero distance should be. Don’t get me wrong, I am an avid shooter and gun owner - this subject just seems very strange to me.

 

[Buzznrose]

For those of you who carry an AK, AR, or long barrel pistol caliber pistols with braces in your car or for home defence, what do you zero them at? Do you set them up for 50 to 100 yards out even though there will never be a self defense justification at that distance, or at the sane distances as your handgund?

The OP identified three significantly different guns, assuming the AR is 5.56, the AK is 7.62*39, and the PCC is 9MM. If I had a 300 Blkout, I’d sight it the same as the 7.62.

My AR’s are dead on at 50 yards. My 7.62*39 is dead on at 35 yards. Both give me a couple inches low at point blank range, hit POA at their respective zeros, and rise a few inches as they travel out to the 100 yard mark until their arcs bring them back to POA somewhere around 200 yards and they continue to drop to the ground. For perspective, if I had to shoot an 80 lbs hog broadside at 300 yards, I’d aim at the top of the body and expect to hit 8 - 14” low.

I don’t have a PCC but if I did it would be dead on at 25-30 yards.

I don’t hunt anymore and cannot confirm where I’m exactly hitting at 100, 200, or 300 yards, but i do go to a range and shoot steel gongs and silhouette targets out to 300 yards consistently. And the steel targets are smaller than an adult torso, so I’m good with my process.

 

[ilmonster]

Another 50/200 yd zero adherant. I use my AR for some competitions at 50-60yds at my local range, and also like to ding steel at approx. 220yds. at the same range. I have an Aimpoint red dot sight and feel very confident making the shot out to 220 yds. 25 yds an inch or so low, 100 yds an inch or two high and pretty much dead on everywhere else.