Zumbo Undoing = Officially National News Story

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http://www.amazon.com/Chukar-Hunters-Companion-Pat-Wray/dp/0974292303/sr=1-1/qid=1172353449/ref=sr_1_1/002-3856584-0645617?ie=UTF8&s=books

Wray's a self-published hack who's sold, judging from that sales rank, ONE copy in the last month.

This is a big enough industry that if he had anything useful to say he could have found a real publisher.

Sounds like he volunteered a statement, hoping to slide into a few more sales.

And he hunts chukars. Well, I'm sure we all have a lot in common...

Still, trying to paint the NRA as anti-hunter isn't going to work very well. And they keep noting the NRA is "very powerful." Well, that power would come from members and money, right?

A lobby shouldn't be powerful? I don't get it.

While I don't think Chucky, Di or Hillary will care, I suspect a lot of mid-American Dems will become aware of this, and decide their careers aren' worth AWBII
 
I wonder if this had happened before 2004, if President Bush would have been so quick to say, "If an assault weapons ban comes to my desk, I will sign it."

You can never trust a politician. Bush might have signed it. It also might have been a calculated statement--he knew it would never GET to his desk.

And that's the key. Destroy such bills in committee.

This very well could be a witch hunt. A witch is still a witch and needs to be eliminated.

Um...my wife is a Wiccan (and the first one in the US military to wear a pentacle insignia with command approval), so are several other members of this forum, and there are a number of Pagans and Druids around here, too. Careful of the terminology, please.
 
Yes, I was kidnapped by agents from the NRA and brainwashed into believing that the 2nd Amendment is just as important as the 1st.
 
I wonder if this had happened before 2004, if President Bush would have been so quick to say, "If an assault weapons ban comes to my desk, I will sign it."?

I swear, there is so much political ignorance. With a congress safely in Republican hands, now listen carefully, Bush knew THERE WAS NO WAY A WEAPONS BAN WOULD EVER MAKE IT TO HIS DESK!!! And, it helped him get re-elected by drawing some Independent votes. Would you have preferred President Kerry? Sheeesh.

Don
 
Pat Wray is an elitist chukar hunter from Corvallis, OR, a den of hippies and liberals and home of Oregon State. Nuff, said. He can say all he wants but there are probabbly only 200 chukar hunters in the U.S. and they can't or wouldn't have the clout get him fired.
 
Have any of you sent a letter to the Washington Post yet?

Here's mine.
Saying the NRA was responsible for Jim Zumbo's career ending is factually inaccurate. The NRA was the last organization to distance itself from Mr. Zumbo's statements in his blog where he equated veterans and recreational shooters who used AR-15 type rifles for sport as "terrorists". Mr. Zumbo's career crashed and burned after tens of thousands of people condemned Mr. Zumbo over a 5 day period for those statements made in his blog. The NRA itself was criticized for being slow issuing a statement condemning Mr. Zumbo and when it finally did it was the last organization associated with him that spoke.

The facts of this event that occurred over a 6 day span are easily checked as they occurred almost wholly on the internet where nothing is ever lost. From Mr. Zumbo's initial blog article on February 16 to his apology on the 18th to his resignation from Outdoor Life on the 22nd to NRA's Publications Editor issuing this statement in response to members wanting to know the NRA’s stance on Mr. Zumbo's statements were, "Everyone at NRA Publications is angered and confused by the thoughts expressed by Jim Zumbo. We all know him well; he has been a periodic contributor to our magazines and a staunch supporter of the NRA for many years. But we cannot understand what led him to believe or write such things. Of course he's entitled to his opinion, but his opinion is certainly not one shared by the NRA staff. All semi-automatic firearms are just that: semi-automatic. There can be no differentiation between them simply based on external appearance. Mr. Zumbo has never been an employee of the NRA, and we have no plans to publish any articles by him in the future. Contributions by him to NRA media are hereby suspended, effective immediately.

Please know that your support and interest in our publications are deeply appreciated.

Sincerely,

John Zent

Editorial Director

NRA Publications"
 
I swear, there is so much political ignorance. With a congress safely in Republican hands, now listen carefully, Bush knew THERE WAS NO WAY A WEAPONS BAN WOULD EVER MAKE IT TO HIS DESK!!!

No way? Go look at who runs the House and Senate now and say that again. Bush was either a traitor or an idiot.
 
I "borrowed" a few bits from the beginning but this is what I sent to [email protected]

Saying the NRA was responsible for Jim Zumbo's career ending is factually inaccurate. The NRA was the last organization to distance itself from Mr. Zumbo's statements in his blog where he equated veterans and recreational shooters who used AR-15 type rifles for sport as "terrorists". Mr. Zumbo's career crashed and burned after tens of thousands of people condemned Mr. Zumbo over a 5 day period for those statements made in his blog. The NRA itself was criticized for being slow issuing a statement condemning Mr. Zumbo and when it finally did it was the last organization associated with him that spoke.

The facts of this event that occurred over a 6 day span are easily checked as they occurred almost wholly on the internet where nothing is ever lost. From Mr. Zumbo's initial blog article on February 16 to his apology on the 18th to his resignation from Outdoor Life on the 22nd to NRA's Publications Editor issuing this statement in response to members wanting to know the NRA’s stance on Mr. Zumbo's statements were.

What IS accurate is the overwhelming response of the Pro-2A Community. This is not a group of citizens conditioned by the NRA it is a grassroots movement of Pro Second Amendment Rights Gun Owners that are sick and tired of people and politicians trying to stomp on the Constitution that they swore to protect. Elected officials should take notice if they have any hope of being re-elected....we are watching how they vote and they better not vote Anti-2A if they want a job next term. Increasingly Gun Owners are being forced to become single issue voters. In the next election I will vote 2A first, 2A second, 2A third...the rest is gravy. You can count on the fact that I am not alone.

All semi-automatic firearms are just that: semi-automatic. There can be no differentiation between them simply based on external appearance. Nonesense legislation like Assault Weapon Bans based solely on cosmetic features like pistol grips etc are garbage feel good legislation and ones that do nothing to reduce crime while criminalizing law abiding citizens and sportmen. Threaded Barrels and 30 round magazines don't make a gun more dangerous.

Please take the time to examine the facts and you will see that both the CDC and FBI both agree that additional Gun Control Legislation will do little if anything to crime rates as Criminals don't pay attention to gun laws...thats why they're CRIMINALS.

Look at DC and MD as examples....both have onerous gun control and for some reason both have the highest violent crime rates in the region....Va has more liberal gun laws and Concealed Carry laws enabling citizens to protect themselves and they have a fraction of the crime of DC and Md....an Armed Society is a Polite Society.....criminals don't fear jail time, they don't fear the Police...they fear an Armed Victim that is capable of defending themselves.

John Stossel of 20/20 did a piece on thas not long ago and you would be well advised to review it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR9RN_iSKtg

Here's a short summary of the 20/20 clip:

Myths About Gun Control
By John Stossel

Guns are dangerous. But myths are dangerous, too. Myths about guns are very dangerous, because they lead to bad laws. And bad laws kill people.

"Don't tell me this bill will not make a difference," said President Clinton, who signed the Brady Bill into law.

Sorry. Even the federal government can't say it has made a difference. The Centers for Disease Control did an extensive review of various types of gun control: waiting periods, registration and licensing, and bans on certain firearms. It found that the idea that gun control laws have reduced violent crime is simply a myth.

I wanted to know why the laws weren't working, so I asked the experts. "I'm not going in the store to buy no gun," said one maximum-security inmate in New Jersey. "So, I could care less if they had a background check or not."

"There's guns everywhere," said another inmate. "If you got money, you can get a gun."

Talking to prisoners about guns emphasizes a few key lessons. First, criminals don't obey the law. (That's why we call them "criminals.") Second, no law can repeal the law of supply and demand. If there's money to be made selling something, someone will sell it.

A study funded by the Department of Justice confirmed what the prisoners said. Criminals buy their guns illegally and easily. The study found that what felons fear most is not the police or the prison system, but their fellow citizens, who might be armed. One inmate told me, "When you gonna rob somebody you don't know, it makes it harder because you don't know what to expect out of them."

What if it were legal in America for adults to carry concealed weapons? I put that question to gun-control advocate Rev. Al Sharpton. His eyes opened wide, and he said, "We'd be living in a state of terror!"

In fact, it was a trick question. Most states now have "right to carry" laws. And their people are not living in a state of terror. Not one of those states reported an upsurge in crime.

Why? Because guns are used more than twice as often defensively as criminally. When armed men broke into Susan Gonzalez' house and shot her, she grabbed her husband's gun and started firing. "I figured if I could shoot one of them, even if we both died, someone would know who had been in my home." She killed one of the intruders. She lived. Studies on defensive use of guns find this kind of thing happens at least 700,000 times a year.

And there's another myth, with a special risk of its own. The myth has it that the Supreme Court, in a case called United States v. Miller, interpreted the Second Amendment -- "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" -- as conferring a special privilege on the National Guard, and not as affirming an individual right. In fact, what the court held is only that the right to bear arms doesn't mean Congress can't prohibit certain kinds of guns that aren't necessary for the common defense. Interestingly, federal law still says every able-bodied American man from 17 to 44 is a member of the United States militia.

What's the special risk? As Alex Kozinski, a federal appeals judge and an immigrant from Eastern Europe, warned in 2003, "the simple truth -- born of experience -- is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people."

"The prospect of tyranny may not grab the headlines the way vivid stories of gun crime routinely do," Judge Kozinski noted. "But few saw the Third Reich coming until it was too late. The Second Amendment is a doomsday provision, one designed for those exceptionally rare circumstances where all other rights have failed -- where the government refuses to stand for reelection and silences those who protest; where courts have lost the courage to oppose, or can find no one to enforce their decrees. However improbable these contingencies may seem today, facing them unprepared is a mistake a free people get to make only once."

I've always enjoyed your newspaper but unless I see some sort of retraction/clarification on this issue I will have no other option but to cease buying your paper.
 
Um...my wife is a Wiccan (and the first one in the US military to wear a pentacle insignia with command approval), so are several other members of this forum, and there are a number of Pagans and Druids around here, too. Careful of the terminology, please.

Or she'll put a spell n you! :evil:
 
I don't buy into the defense of Bush by saying "he only said that because he knew it wouldn't pass".

You don't think that even that statement has an impact on the way the public thinks? Do you think that statement encouraged or discouraged future gun grabs?

We got freakin' lucky on that one, NO thanks to Bush. Yeah, I don't care for either party...mainly because they don't appear to care about me/my rights.
 
One of the concerns with any of these comments or laws is that they create a new baseline.

Of course automatic weapons are illegal, right? And silencers. No one civilized would want those without a specific reason.

It's already been established that the government can control imports. But their standards for doing so are based on a "sporting" use.

Obviously, you have to be 21 to get a handgun, because you're not mature enough at 18.

All these things are taken as axiomatic by the general public.

More than once, I've sold someone a large knife or sword, and they've used plastic. Being cautious, I require ID for the transaction, because of the credit card. But I've had people say, "Obviously, you need my ID to register this knife/sword 'just like a gun,' right?"

No...we don't register in this state, and knives are considered tools...

When they express surprise about a "Dangerous weapon" I would point to the sporting goods store with the ball bats.

Yet these people assumed the government had some legitimate reason for tracking this information, some purpose in doing so, and were comfortable with it, AT THE SAME TIME, believing they met some arbitrary standard that allowed them to qualify for this "right."

Restrictions never apply to "us." Restrictions are always for "Those people." And they are "Reasonable."

The real problem with Zumbo's comments is that he fell right into that trap, and endorsed it publicly as legitimate. "I don't like this, and I'm exempt, but the government should stop other people from doing it because of a perception."

Ask anyone you know if getting rid of Social Security would be reasonable...then wait for the fallout.
 
"The reaction -- from tens of thousands of owners of assault rifles across the country, from media and manufacturers rooted in the gun business, and from the National Rifle Association "

Someone still doesn't get it .... we all own assault rifles?
 
The NRA didn't even make the smallest move until after it was over ... which was lat on Tuesday. By then, I had already written dozens of emails and letters and most sponsors had acknowledged that the COMMON SPORTSMAN was pissed.

Sigh. You are so sadly brain-washed. Don't you know that you and your fellows were only doing what NRA had programmed you to do? The NRA is responsible for this whole thing, and you didn't even know they were doing their dirty work through you. I'm glad I'm not brain-washed like the rest of you terrorists.

;) ;) ;)
 
From his home near Cody, Wyo., Zumbo declined repeated telephone requests for comment. He is a 40-year NRA member and has appeared with NRA officials in 70 cities, according to his Web site.

THIS, in a nutshell, is why we need to bring Zumbo back. He's got to get out and fix what he broke. Because nobody can retract the blog or explain its error except Zumbo.
 
and from the National Rifle Association "

Someone still doesn't get it .... we all own assault rifles?

Hey, let's run with that.

Four MILLION of us, baby! We ALL got AK47s! Give us our rights or lose office.
:)

Cosmo: Zumbo almost certainly has more experience with the MSM than I do, and I wouldn't even say, "No comment" or "Go screw" to the Washington Pravda. It's not if they misquote you, but how much will they misquote you.
 
Quote:
From his home near Cody, Wyo., Zumbo declined repeated telephone requests for comment. He is a 40-year NRA member and has appeared with NRA officials in 70 cities, according to his Web site.
THIS, in a nutshell, is why we need to bring Zumbo back. He's got to get out and fix what he broke. Because nobody can retract the blog or explain its error except Zumbo.

Why do "WE" need to do anything? He wrote what he thought, he should have the guts to start fixing it.
 
The remarks in the news article about this being the result of the NRA training folks to be attack dogs is nonsense.

AR15.com was waaaaaaaay out in front of everyone on this. NRA was playing catch-up.
 
Why do "WE" need to do anything? He wrote what he thought, he should have the guts to start fixing it.

We could just do nothing, but that strategy hasn't worked too well in the past. We can either think tactically or we can get buried again.
 
I received the following email response from Pat Wray. Since it does not really sync with the polite email I sent him, I am guessing some of you probably have this in your e-mail box already.

Thanks for taking the time to write. You were one of many gun owners to write to me regarding my recent statements in the Washington Post. I understand your concern. I was not complimentary about the actions of people involved in the Internet destruction of Jim Zumbo’s career.

My feelings about those actions will not change. Those of you who took part in the assault on Zumbo lost an opportunity to turn him around, to educate him and to change him into an outstanding spokesman for your beliefs. He offered, in his initial apology, to do exactly that. Instead, you went for the jugular and completed his fall. Your action was fast, furious and, like so many other internet-based actions, without the benefit of deliberation or serious discussion. It was, very simply, a high tech lynching conducted by an enraged mob. If being described as part of a lynch mob bothers you, perhaps you should consider the description next time you are tempted to go on the attack.

Speaking of attack, a number of you told me in no uncertain terms to expect treatment ‘like Zumbo got.’ My response is this; I’m going to do what I think is right. You should do the same. Let the chips fall where they may.

If we’re going to have a serious disagreement, you should know who I am. I have been a member of the NRA for nearly 25 years, and believe strongly in their 2nd Amendment mission. I need them to help me protect the semi-automatic firearms in my safe. Several of them are ‘assault rifles’ beginning with my 1873 Springfield .45-70 and going forward to World War II weapons. I also own several other semi-automatic firearms and will fight any attempt to outlaw them. I don’t own an AR 15, not because I don’t believe in our right to own them, but because I’m not impressed with the caliber. I use a .22-250 for varmints.

I spent 20 years in the United States Marine Corps and doubt that any one of you is more dedicated to our country or the Constitution than I am. I oppose gun registration because I don’t want the government to be able to take my firearms. I recognize the need for an armed citizenry and intend to be a part of it.

In short, I don’t have a problem with your firearms or your right to own them. I own them myself. I will not be a part of a divide-and-conquer strategy aimed at gun owners. I do have a major problem with the mob psychology some of you exhibited over the past week. It was despicable. Period.

If you want a more complete view of my feelings on the Zumbo situation I invite you to visit the following website. http://gtconnect.com/articles/2007/02/25/sports/venture/1ven01_wray.txt

It is a column that came out today in the Corvallis Gazette-Times.

Sincerely,

Pat Wray
 
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