Zumbo Undoing = Officially National News Story

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I didn't turn on Zumbo. I never heard of the guy untill he started running his mouth about how my guns are terroist weapons.

Same here...
 
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yep, you're right... here's the the link to the original...

Image link

sorry about that...

the idiot part is still correct though... :)
 
js,

Thanks for removing the fake image. There are enough damning facts around without perpetuating questionable material.


WRT Pat Wray, here's the text of his newpaper article. Interesting that he say's he and Jim Zumbo have hostile history and that he doesn't think ARs, or any gun for that matter, should be banned. He does say that a lynch mob mentality took over and that the NRA is to blame for fostering that mentality.

By Pat Wray
For the Gazette-Times

Something very strange happened in the world of outdoor communication this week. One of America’s best known hunting writers slipped and metaphorically cut himself — so a few thousand of his closest friends ate him alive.

Jim Zumbo, who made a name for himself — and developed a large following — writing about big game hunting for the past 40 years, was on a Remington Arms-sponsored Wyoming coyote hunting trip. He learned during a conversation with one of his guides that a lot of people use military style rifles (M-16 and AK-47 knockoffs) to hunt prairie dogs and coyotes. This surprised Zumbo and he wrote about the situation in his Outdoor Life-sponsored blog. In his posting, Zumbo called the knockoffs “assault” and “terrorist” rifles. He also said their use was bad for the image of hunters and that “game departments should ban them from the prairies and woods.”

Within hours, gun owners from around the world were lathered up and sharpening their Internet knives. Remington Arms took the first cuts; they were swamped by messages from people who threatened to boycott Remington products because of their connection to Zumbo. Remington didn’t hesitate, pulling their sponsorship of Zumbo’s television show from the Outdoor Channel. Soon thereafter, other sponsors, including Mossy Oak and Cabela’s, had severed their relationships with him. These were not just symbolic departures ... these were outfits that regularly gave Zumbo money, lots of it, and now it’s gone. Even Outdoor Life, the venerable outdoor magazine for whom Zumbo has written for decades, fired him as their hunting editor.

In a few short days the career of the best known hunting writer in America was served in small bloody pieces to a crowd of vicious, vengeful, vitriolic jackals. This is worth analysis.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must admit that I don’t like Jim Zumbo. He likes me even less. We’ve had a couple professional disagreements over the years that have spilled over into our personal lives. Nonetheless, he has always been a staunch proponent of shooting and hunting, as well as an exceptionally capable communicator in several different genres.

Second, I don’t agree with his assessment of the military-style rifles, commonly referred to as “black” rifles. They are just semi-automatic rifles, like a hundred other makes and models; you have to pull the trigger each time you want to shoot one round. If people like the military design, I see no reason they can’t use them. And the calibers common in those rifles, while not ideal for big game hunting, are certainly effective enough for varmint hunting.

What’s interesting about this entire situation is how quickly it escalated into a feeding frenzy that destroyed a good man’s career. The easy answer is the Internet. We’ve seen examples before, blogs and e-mails developing into uncontrolled windstorms that destroy everything in their paths. The danger of such a thing happening is a fact of today’s world and no one, even the most mighty, is immune.

But we need to look beyond the Internet, into the genesis of the anger and fear that fueled the Internet attacks. If we look closely, we will find the National Rifle Association, or NRA. For decades the NRA has fostered a climate of fear and paranoia among gun owners. They have hammered home the message that everyone is out to take our guns and that compromise is tantamount to treason. They created an attitude within their membership that anyone who disagreed was an enemy and the best defense was a good offense. Nowhere has that message taken root as strongly as within the owners of the military style rifles, and it was they who came after Zumbo in their thousands.

It is ironic — and tragic — that the NRA’s message, so effectively delivered for so many years, has come back to ruin the professional life of one of their own. And it was done in a strange, alternative universe, in which the firing squad commands used for his execution were “READY ... FIRE ... AIM!”

Pat Wray can be reached at [email protected].
 
I just read another post that is now closed that stated that they just want Zumbo to say that he realizes that the 2nd is not about hunting, well he did an Teds Forum

"Thank you all for letting me speak. Yes, I know the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting and hunting guns, and yes, I promise you I am now dedicated to educate all shooters that we must all stick together regardless of our gun choices, and also tolerate the firearms others may choose to use if they are dissimilar to ours. I will do everything I can, within my power as a journalist and public speaker, to protect the 2nd Amendment and America's gun owners."

I still haven’t fully decided what my stance is with Zumbo yet, but I feel that he is trying anyway. I think that he was truly ignorant of the fact that these guns have a place. I still don’t like the fact that he related them to terrorist, but he is trying to make amends, weather he has changed his mind and seen the light or if it’s for his career, I still think some good can come from this and I think he is heading in the right direction. As I read somewhere else if the Brady bunch were to ask him about his comment he could say, yes that was my feelings when I was ignorant and uneducated as you are now.

Jim also said this at Teds Forum, "I just read Denny Hanson's comment. He is the editor of S.W.A.T Magazine and invited me to take a course in shooting AR-15's, and when I'm done, he asked if I'd write an article in the magazine about using the gun.
I agreed. Bring it on, bro!"

I know some will think that he's trying to rebuild his career, but then again he's 67 and I'm sure he has the money to retire and just go into hiding but he is not. I am willing to give him the chance to redeem him self and who knows maybe he might end up being one of the forerunners of the 2nd amendment rights.
 
I know some will think that he's trying to rebuild his career, but then again he's 67 and I'm sure he has the money to retire and just go into hiding but he is not. I am willing to give him the chance to redeem him self and who knows maybe he might end up being one of the forerunners of the 2nd amendment rights.
I'm right there with you.

For decades the NRA has fostered a climate of fear and paranoia among gun owners. They have hammered home the message that everyone is out to take our guns and that compromise is tantamount to treason.
I think that this is a flawed analysis, in the continuing search for a scapegoat to suffer for the feeding frenzy that was Zumbo's blog.

Pat is wrong. It's not the NRA that caused the outlash. It was nothing more complex years of pent-up frustrations at the sneers and jeers that the black rifle folks took/take at sporting events and ranges.

And yes, Pat, it has conclusively been proven that, along with water being wet, they really ARE out to get my guns.
 
I guess Mr. Wray isn't aware of this then...?

HR 1022

Mr. Zumbo's comments came out a week or so after this Bill was introduced... and people like me, who owns a "terrorist" weapon, responded to Mr. Zumbo's comments. It had nothing to do with the NRA.
 
Hmmm - why don't you think that us "lynch mob" types just may be able to make up our own minds of what to fear - without the help of the NRA? After 10 years of an irrational ban on some of our favorite rifles, after 2+ more years of some states like mine (NY) still under a ban, after the 1st weeks of facing other viable challenges to gun rights in the current Congress, it just may be that a HUGE portion of us no longer need the NRA to point out for us what we are up against.

We have all seen/heard lie after lie, msleading "fact" after misleading "fact" come out against us, against our guns, against our rights...it just may be that WE are sick of it! Sure, it is to be expected to hear such bull from those opposed to the 2nd amendment, but to hear it from a supposed gun-guy? And to hear/read agreement from other "hunters" who are also ignorant about the subject? It's intolerable. Just as the internet can be used to fan "uncontrolled windstorms", it can also be used quite easily by those who should know better, to educate themselves. There is NO excuse for misguided opinions, for errant statements given as facts, or for being admittedly naive about a subject that is obviously so important to such a large segment of gun-owners AND hunters. One should expect such writers, bloggers and posters to have at least some knowledge of the topic, (and if not, to garner some) BEFORE posting words which can and will negatively sway so many other naive individuals.

Ignorance is no longer an excuse! WE say "enough"! And we should ALL say so loudly and clearly - without needing the NRA to guide us (though their help, hell - "my help" since i am a member, is much welcome!)
 
Pat Wray has been having a spat with the NRA for a while:

Column by ‘NRA Hunter’ Writer Infuriates Gun Rights Activists
Good background - thanks. It would seem that Pat doesn't understand plain English. National Rifle Association != National Hunting Association.

Where their mission coincide - more the better. But the National RIFLE Association is (in my humble opinion) supposed to be a firearms advocacy group first and foremost.
 
Pitty this post from Zumbo over on Nugent's board is out in the press. Perhaps we should spread it if the press won't?
Thank you all for letting me speak. Yes, I know the 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with hunting and hunting guns, and yes, I promise you I am now dedicated to educate all shooters that we must all stick together regardless of our gun choices, and also tolerate the firearms others may choose to use if they are dissimilar to ours. I will do everything I can, within my power as a journalist and public speaker, to protect the 2nd Amendment and America's gun owners.
 
tolerate the firearms others may choose to use if they are dissimilar to ours

I feel so much better now that he is willing to "tolerate" my choice of firearms...

:scrutiny:
 
He did acknowledge that part back further down the thread when questioned about it. Somehow I missed that part earlier.

"To Michigander who questioned my use of the word "tolerate" and suggested "respect." I'll go along with that. I like your word better. You're a cool dude."

At this point I am not trying to defend him, I am just saying that he is trying and its going to take time for the waves to settle and for him to do get things done and the word to get out. He has already been chopped down at the knees and I don’t think he can or will do anymore harm. The only thing he can do is go into hiding or do well for or cause.

As they say and I do believe it will happen here, bad news travel faster then good.
 
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I am reminded of a line from "Gone with the Wind:"

"You're like a thief that has gotten caught. You're not sorry about stealing, but are very, very sorry you got caught!"
 
Would SOMEONE please let me know when we're through trashing crap, so that we can start to rebuild?

Mob rule, guys, and when a mob smells blood, it gets crazy weird.

This is not an "absolutist" thing. Zumbo was a SYMPTOM, not the disease. We need to welcome him back with us, make him the poster boy for the black rifle. Because there are _millions_ of hunters and shotgunners out there who are just like him.

Yeah, THR is oh-so-tactical. Big deal. More deer have been killed with Winchester 94-propelled .30-30s than with all makes of semi-automatic rifles combined. The deer hunters aren't going to do crap until they are EDUCATED. And if we widen the schism in our ranks, that's never going to happen.

So, should we go back to trashing Zumbo, or is it time for another "boycott wally world" thread?
 
NRA

Funny.

The NRA can't seem to catch a break.

A lot of us have been steamed that the NRA seems too fixated on playing to the hunters and doesn't spend enough time and energy on securing the 2A.

Now it seems the hunters are steamed that the NRA doesn't do enough for hunters.

I realize, and perhaps many of us do, though we would probably rather not contemplate it, that the NRA has to do a bit of "sausage making" from time to time and, as we all know, "those who love sausage or respect the law should never watch either one being made."

I'm sure that somewhere within the NRA's structure there is someone whose job is keeping track of what the members actually say and making note of our suggestions. There must be a good way to make optimum use of that communication line. Perhaps there is one among us who is familiar with it?

When weighing the importance of the two issues (hunting and gun ownership) it is clear that one depends from the other (unless we just want to revert to "spear season" and "bow season" and "club season"), thus: if the RKBA is nullified, hunters won't have to worry about whether the land is fenced, has roads, or is virgin wilderness; they won't have anything with which to hunt.

If the NRA must choose which issue to assign a higher priority, then RKBA must trump hunting, because without it we lose hunting anyway.

I believe that the viewpoint that the NRA must do the heavy lifting for one cause or the other is an abdication of our responsibility to provide our own snowstorm of letters to those who make the laws. Yes, the NRA ILA needs to be a presence in DC to remind the lawmakers that there are tons of voters out there who are watching, but this needs to be backed up by actual letters from said voters saying that same thing: "we're watching you and we vote."

I will start a new thread over in L&P called "The Grass Is Greener Where It's Allowed To Grow" which will discuss the difference between the pyramid structure that is common in politics and the tree structure that is more dynamic. We all kind of know that a "grass roots" movement is the way to go, and likewise that the tree structure is more responsive, yet we place our trust in pyramid structures where doctrine is handed down from the top. No grass grows under a pyramid.

The NRA doesn't rally us and drive us. We find ourselves having to light the fire and then point the NRA to it and say "pour some gas on that."

I don't know what the current letter-to-headcount leverage ratio is, but in politics and PR it's well known that for every letter received this is some number (X) who feel the same way but who didn't write a letter.

That multiplier works in our favor. Write the letters. Hassle the NRA. Write more letters. Get your friends to write letters.

Educate people.

Ask questions like, "what is important to you about your personal rights, what is important to you about your freedoms and liberties." Now listen to the words and phrases they use in their answers.

Work with the answers.

As you get answers from people expressing what things are important to them about rights and freedoms and liberty, tell the rest of us what you hear.

Certain words and phrases will be seen to emerge. Those are the things that will resonate with people.

Now take the words and phrases that people have already given you and use them to properly tune your message.

The question approach has this additional advantage: it gets people thinking along the lines of what you asked.

Time is short.

Let's ask the question.
 
I think that the hunters who don’t care about the "black rifles" are mostly the ones in states that don’t allow semi rifles for hunting. I live in PA and you can’t even use a semi 22 to hunt squirrels, so these hunters don’t care if they are banned or not. Heck I know a lot of hunters who say AR 15 nobody needs a fully auto gun to hunt with argue they are because its the same thing they used in the service (M16A1) and are surprised when you tell them that even the A2 is not even full auto.

The first time I hunted deer in Missouri a few years ago I was even a little surprised that people were hunting with AKs. I never appreciated them until I started reading forms like this one, but there are many hunters who have not and still don’t know, and I can see and in a way relate to Zumbo(other then I never related them to terrorists). The sadist part is when they see Automatic weapons ban proposals they don’t even read into them and think it’s just for Full auto weapons.

I feel the best way to overcome this gap is to hit the game departments of states that don’t allow semis to hunt with is to get them to allow it especially in states that rifles are allowed in the first place. This way there would be more hunters out there using them in the field and at least other hunters would see them and it wouldn’t be long that they wouldn’t look out of place to most every hunter. I know this would make some impact because I my self and others I know have said I can spend X amount on a semi rifle and only be able to shoot target or I can take that same amount and by a good bolt rifle still shoot target and hunt with it.

I understand that the 2nd amendment has nothing to do with hunting but I still think we need to bridge the gap and get everybody on the same boat and from how I see this would push a lot of Fudds off the fence on to our side.
 
Because there are _millions_ of hunters and shotgunners out there who are just like him.

Unfortunately this is true, but there are even more out there that are not. F & S did a survey last year (or the year before). One of the questions was in reagrds to gun-control:

Which of the following do you believe is true?

You can’t deal in good faith with people who want tougher gun control because their ultimate goal is the elimination of private gun ownership.
75%

Some of the people who favor tougher gun control might have some worthwhile ideas.
25%

It is depressing that 25% picked the second choice, but I have seen similar support for some gun control on various polls of ALL gun owners.
 
Zumbo undoing

The MSM are trying to come to Zumbo defence, they see the large number of people calling him about what he said. The MSM would be spouting what Zumbo said as what a lot of gun owners really think on some issues,but that idea got trashed.It also amazed the MSM that gun owners can come together on an issue like this,the MSM I believe were hoping that we would be asleep and not take action,and future moves on gun issues could be presented with us ignoring them also. I believe they(MSM) have really been stunned by this event.
 
Wray's book has sold 16 copies this year, according to Nielson BookScan.

I appreciate that Wray does not want firearms banned because of their physical appearance, but I can't accept that he tolerates the actions of Zumbo. Zumbo called me a terrorist and advocated that I can't use my favorite varmint rifle because he doesn't like the way it looks. Sorry Jimbo, but you expressed your First Amendment right, then I expressed mine, by contacting every sponsor you ever had and helping to destroy your career.
 
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