Shaking hands
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Jack Ryan
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Are you guys that helpless with out a gun in your hand? With in shaking hands distance? Even if you weren't shaking hands are you standing there with your gun in your hand inside your pocket?
Hands on is going to be the way to go at that distance for a prepared intentional attacker any way. Go for you CONCEALED CARRY at that point and you are only going to die with your hand in your pocket, may be at best.
Go get some training before you call your self "security" again.
Hands on is going to be the way to go at that distance for a prepared intentional attacker any way. Go for you CONCEALED CARRY at that point and you are only going to die with your hand in your pocket, may be at best.
Go get some training before you call your self "security" again.
Jack Ryan
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People believe what they believe, but not many believe what they claim they believe.
MedWheeler
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paulsj writes:
Absolutely a difference in beliefs, and a much-more civil way of presenting it. Nothing wrong with that at all. I, personally, do not believe God wants us to "welcome" death as simply a route to His Kingdom. When it comes, we can certainly accept it when it is unavoidable, but He has given us tools and knowledge to fight evil when it comes, and not just to roll over and accept it. I don't think the members of the congregations in Charleston or Sutherland Springs that died at the hand of evil are more likely to enter the Kingdom than are believers who have fought evil and prevailed.
But, yeah, the thread was about approaching handshaking while armed as a member of a church's security team, not about being armed while at church in general.
Absolutely a difference in beliefs, and a much-more civil way of presenting it. Nothing wrong with that at all. I, personally, do not believe God wants us to "welcome" death as simply a route to His Kingdom. When it comes, we can certainly accept it when it is unavoidable, but He has given us tools and knowledge to fight evil when it comes, and not just to roll over and accept it. I don't think the members of the congregations in Charleston or Sutherland Springs that died at the hand of evil are more likely to enter the Kingdom than are believers who have fought evil and prevailed.
But, yeah, the thread was about approaching handshaking while armed as a member of a church's security team, not about being armed while at church in general.
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old lady new shooter
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A person shows faith by making a vessel for G-d to fill.
old lady new shooter
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A person can only serve G-d while on this world in a physical body.
.308 Norma
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I don’t remember exactly how it happened, but my wife and I kind of became the official “greeters” at our church about 10 years back. My wife is a “hugger,” I’m a “shaker.”
However, I’ve noticed there are several people in our relatively small church, including our old Pastor, that neither hugs nor shakes. Instead, our old Pastor walks around before the service and greets people, occasionally holding up his fist to “bump” (actually just touch) knuckles with them. I always figured he did that because he’s old, frail, and didn’t want to risk picking up the flu or some other illness. But now that I know our old Pastor is demonstrating a lack of faith by trying to avoid getting sick, I’m going to quit using that little bottle of hand sanitizer I carry in my coat pocket. I mean after all, our church is a place of worship. If I’m going to pick up a case of bacterial pneumonia, I can’t think of a better place to do it.
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golfer_ray
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Well, here in Oklahoma, I feel confident that if a situation occurred in my church, at least 4 people who I know carry would take care of it. I have carried at times at church. A former pastor of ours stated that God gave us a brain for a reason.
A friend of mine, also a Deacon in his church, recently told me that because of the church shootings in this country that his church has formed a security detail that would be armed during services. His church is also rurally located. My thoughts were that this certainly wasn't a bad idea.
TRX
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Handshakes have been "not a thing" here for so long that if you stick your hand out, people will stare at you like you just made an indecent suggestion.
I'm glad to see the tradition lives on elsewhere, even if it does make people paranoid.
I'm glad to see the tradition lives on elsewhere, even if it does make people paranoid.
Trunk Monkey
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The security team at my church is there to do security. They don't act as greeters they don't act as ushers generally speaking they don't act as janitors they're there to guard the building.
I'm not saying that they're deliberately unfriendly or unapproachable or anything like that but they're generally positioned such that the people aren't going to seek them out to shake hands with them unless it's somebody that they already know.
I think it also helps that the people that are on the security team who are working a given service all wear clearly identifiable uniforms.
I'm not saying that they're deliberately unfriendly or unapproachable or anything like that but they're generally positioned such that the people aren't going to seek them out to shake hands with them unless it's somebody that they already know.
I think it also helps that the people that are on the security team who are working a given service all wear clearly identifiable uniforms.
rskent
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Why does this seem like a really bad idea to me? Armed, uniformed security seems like it would be an intrusion during the service. And then there is the “shoot me first” thing.
Trunk Monkey
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There's also the God forbid there's ever an active shooter incident and the police show up and see somebody dressed in street clothes holding a gun and kill him and then find out it was a church security guard.
When I say clearly identifiable security uniforms I don't mean the hard style police type uniforms that bank guards wear.
All of the members of the security team wear a black 5.11 shirt with the church logo and the words "Security Ministry" embroidered on it. That's the uniform and no one openly displays a firearm.
I live in Colorado and for the moment we don't need permission from the church to carry a concealed weapon in a House of Worship.
I would guess that on Sunday morning we probably seat between 3 and 5000 people at each service. If you go by the average number of concealed handgun permit holders in El Paso County statistically are there are probably a thousand people in that congregation carrying guns. Realistically it's probably closer to 200.
My point is that nobody in our congregation is going to be freaked out at the thought of somebody carrying a gun in church
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rskent
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My mistake. When you said uniform, I thought “Barney Fife”.
Trunk Monkey
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This city is overrun with homeless tweakers. There are churches in this town that actually have licensed, armed, uniformed security guards.
skeeterfogger
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Wingman
old lady new shooter
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Approximately 10% of my congregation is armed at services.
.308 Norma
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Trunk Monkey
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Supposedly 17% of people in El Paso County have a concealed handgun Permit. At a round number of 4000 people in a given service that would be 680 people carrying a gun in that service, maybe more since a church crowd would tend to skew heavily conservative. I don't buy it.
That said, I notice different people carrying everytime I go to church so I wouldn't have a problem believing 200(ish).
It would be like the "Somebody picked the wrong Diner" Glock commercial .
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entropy
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So then the logical extension of that is you don't carry outside of your place of worship either. Opera non verba.
I believe G_d helps those who help themselves. I am the only security at our church, and don't serve as the greeter for that very reason.
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G'dale Mike
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If the guys right hand is in his pocket, offering your left hand wont answer any questions, will it? Just askin, dont know squat about this topic.Why intentionally limit the box in which you're considering your options?
If you're right-handed, why not offer your left hand for a handshake? Really. How hard is that to consider?
It can offer you a couple potential advantages.
First, it keeps your strong hand free and unencumbered. From a martial arts and firearms instructor perspective and experience, this can be a valuable thing.
Secondly, since approx 85% of people are right-handed, it might cause a moment's confusion on the part of the person with whom you're offering to shake hands (interference in their OODA Loop) as they consider how to respond. If they're of no ill intent, then it's just a slightly awkward moment for them. Smile and look friendly and welcoming.
If they aren't of harmless intent, though? It might momentarily not only confuse them, but also "tie up" their off-side hand and let you use it as a "lever" to help you exert unexpected force that might compromise and hinder their ability to effectively use their strong hand, by turning them off-balance. Both situations might be to your advantage if they're anything other than of harmless intent.
Besides, it's not a rare thing for some people to have their strong hand filled with something (Bible, coffee, holding a child's hand, etc) and offer you their other hand. Remember how that momentarily caught you off guard the first time it happened to you? That's what you want to use to your advantage if the time should ever come that you find yourself intercepting someone trying to slip in with ill intent. It might just buy you a moment's advantage in which to decide how to act.
Think outside the box, because you can't know if a potential threat/opponent is only going to be acting within the "box" you've pigeon-holed yourself inside.
Just some thoughts. There's arguably something to be said to have a plan that allows for you to deal with everyone you meet who may not have exactly a harmless and wonderful intention.
G'dale Mike
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Death is the beginning of a wonderful journey, and it seems your assumption is death is the ultimate outcome of any encounter with a Church shooter. However, how wonderful would it be to survive, a quad, eating through a straw and having your family care for your every need? Maimed and mutilated is not how I would like to live for a long period. And as stated, while I trust the Lord, my faith in fellow man is lessened on a daily basis.
The number of concealed carry permits issued is only a measure of how many permits are issued. You can draw no estimate on how many of those permit holders are actually carrying on any given day. Carrying a gun requires compromises in other areas of one,s life. There are many, many permit holders who almost never carry. You’ll find their gun at home or in their vehicle. Then there are those who only carry when they think it might be needed.
Trunk Monkey
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Did you read the part of my post where I explicitly stated that I don't buy those numbers? Or are you trying to prove that you're smarter than me?
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