4473 question regarding License with no longer current address
- Thread starter DustyGmt
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Howland937
Member
Me too
I always get "researching" on online from, but usually less than 20 minutes wait. I've also gotten delayed on phone call and was given a "proceed" before I'd made it out of the shop. 5 minutes maybe. Yesterday I was delayed on phone call and haven't heard back yet. Longest delay I've had thus far.
Ironically, it's on a gun I already own that I'd taken to potentially sell on consignment. Traded a different gun to get what I wanted and decided to keep that one.
Some shops here have stopped accepting CHL even though they're perfectly legal in Ohio. Couple occasions where a Domestic Violence charge caused someone's CHL to be yanked and made them prohibited, but they still had the physical copy.
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It is certainly true that the dealer can legally stop the sale for any reason--or for no reason at all.
But the dealer can not legally decide to allow the sale to proceed if the proper documents are not provided. If the customer provides documents that do not qualify (e.g. bills not issued by a governmental entity as proof of residence address), it is not up to the dealer to decide what to do. Legally he MUST stop the sale.
And it is not the dealer's opinion that matters in terms of allowing a sale to proceed. The documents must qualify per ATF guidance. If they do not, the dealer's opinion is irrelevant--legally he MUST stop the sale.
^^^ THIS ^^^
Old_Grouch
Member
It's my understanding that some of the big-box stores here won't honor the permit and insist on doing the background check. It's their right to do so. It's my right to spend my money elsewhere. (which, working in a gun shop, I do anyway).
Howland937
Member
They typically have a blanket policy that covers all their stores. Since there are state to state, variations, sticking with the most stringent guidelines company wide covers their ass.
.455_Hunter
Member
While on active duty, I had zero issues purchasing handguns and long guns in state X as long as my PCS orders said state X. There was no issue that my DL was from my home of record state Y and my military ID had no state references.
I'll bow out of the conversation. I write as I speak and the part I didn't write was that this FFL will not accept supplemental documents if the DL/ID has the incorrect address. I thought that was obvious. But apparently not. He may be an idiot but he's one of largest independent (not a chain store) FFL's in the state with over a dozen employees. He understands the law and chooses to operate this way.
OP
OP
DustyGmt
Member
The concern for a potential issue isn't entirely unwarranted, I deal with alot of electrical codes that are written in plain language (seemingly plain) but most customers would have absolutely no idea how to interpret a code citation, as well as master electricians who will interpret it differently and vehemently argue with the inspector who interprets it a completely different way and on top of that, you can get two different answers from two different inspectors on one single "simple" paragraph of electrical code.
Sometimes you're not only subject to the law, but to the whims of the person, in this case the dealer's interpretation of that law, whether I know the law or not. I'm anticipating trouble and I have tempered my expectations accordingly. I wish I'd have gotten this address change done weeks ago, that'd have been the wisest thing to do.
Howland937
Member
His right as a business owner to refuse service with or without a valid reason. His choice, but not supported by law.
dogtown tom
Member
The instructions on the Form 4473 aren't code, regulation or written in "legalese", but simple, easy to understand instructions that leaves little for the dealer or buyer to interpret.
Again, the problem is someone actually reading the question, the instruction in that question and if still confused...... finding the appropriate detailed instruction in the three and a half pages of instructions.
An example of the most common "you didn't answer" handback to the buyer:
Believe it or not but you either are or are not. But they do leave either 18.a or 18.b blank and then want to argue that they did answer, pointing to their response DESPITE the instructions that follow in the next question........to answer BOTH!
Note the instruction that few read, much less follow........ "Both 18.a and 18.b must be answered"
Is that open to interpretation? Not as far as the requirement to answer both 18.a and 18.b. If you believe you are half black, half Asian, half Native American and Hispanic.........then check those boxes! The dealer doesn't determine your race and ethnicity, the buyer does. If the buyer thinks he'll be cute and deliberately chooses an Ethnicity or Race that is not reflective of him............thats a federal crime. When he signs and dates the form he certifies under penalty of law that his answers are "true, correct and complete".
Still confused as to your race or ethnicity? Then read the instructions to 18.a and 18.b:
Sometimes you're not only subject to the law, but to the whims of the person, in this case the dealer's interpretation of that law, whether I know the law or not. I'm anticipating trouble and I have tempered my expectations accordingly. I wish I'd have gotten this address change done weeks ago, that'd have been the wisest thing to do.
dogtown tom
Member
Yeah, his right but IMO not a sound business practice.
There are dealers who refuse to sell to anyone who is not a US Citizen.........thats not legal and one day will come back to bite them in the butt.
Howland937
Member
No doubt. The guy did say the dealer is "one of the biggest", so maybe he feels he doesn't need the business of those folks.
I believe the legal question has been answered definitively. If there is an issue, the only answer that matters is the determination of the seller. We won't know that unless a purchase offer is made and seller reviews the documents presented. If OP wants to let us know the outcome, thread can be reopened upon messaged request.
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