1911 cocked and locked Without holster

[rcmodel]

I cannot understand why the hell someone would want to spend hundreds of dollars (at least) on a gun and not cough up the money necessary for a holster...

I never said I didn't own or use a holster.
In fact, I own enough 1911 holsters & belts to have paid for another 1911.

But I still often stuff a C&L 1911 down the back of my pants when the dogs wake me up in the middle of the night and I go out to check out what the rucus is about.

If I took the time to saddle up a holster on my belt, whatever it was would all be over..

rc

 

[Deanimator]

I don't and won't carry ANY handgun on my body without a holster of some sort.

Just because it doesn't go off when it happens, that doesn't mean it's a GOOD thing to drop your firearm, and "Mexican carry" is a contributing factor to MANY dropped gun incidents.

 

[android]

I don't and won't carry ANY handgun on my body without a holster of some sort.

Ditto. My SOP is that any loaded gun goes in a holster or in your hand. Period.

I have the same type of philosophy with my German kitchen knives. In the block or in your hand.

 

[Gunfighter123]

I have also slipped a cocked 1911 in my belt when there was a hint that I very well may need it RIGHT NOW !!!

That being said ----- I have had the thumb safety "bumped off" more then once while carrying a 1911 ---- VERY bad feeling when discovered.

Now , I am older and wiser {I hope} and ONLY carry a 1911 in a holster that has a thumb break and strap that goes between the hammer and fireing pin.

 

[EddieNFL]

cannot understand why the hell someone would want to spend hundreds of dollars (at least) on a gun and not cough up the money necessary for a holster... A cheap uncle mikes IWB carries safely for all of 15 bucks. i cannot fathom a situation that would merrit carrying a 1911 "mexican" style.

I have more invested in leather than many have in 1911s, but sometimes I don't use it. I can't fathom why people buy 'Vettes and run Cooper tires. To each his own.

 

[David E]

will go ahead and do it the way that's worked for years for them...I don't know how old you are or how much carrying experience you have...but you're picking apart hundreds of years of collected carrying without a holster...ain't gonna fly...

Perhaps you can share with the rest of us how not using a holster is better than using a good one?

Let's compare:

No Holster Cons

Shifts around in the belt, making firing grip impossible.

Falls below the belt, making firing grip impossible.

Falls thru the pant leg, making firing grip impossible.

Falls out during activity, making firing grip impossible.

Requires constant adjustment, betraying the fact person is armed.

No security against gun grabs.

Clothing can foul triggerguard. (Plaxico Burris, anyone?)

Clothing can foul safety device.

Oil stained clothing.

Front sight may catch clothing during draw, preventing said draw.

Sharp edges can gouge skin/clothing.

No Holster Pros

Convenient.

Cost effective. (presuming we don't care if pants become oil-stained)

Doesn't portray person as a "good guy" like a holster might.....

Good Holster Pros

Holds gun securely on the belt, making firing grip possible.

Prevents gun from falling below the belt, making firing grip possible.

Prevents gun from thru the pant leg, making firing grip possible.

Retains gun during activity, making firing grip possible.

Does not require constant adjustment, wil not betray the fact person is armed.

Provides security against gun grabs.

Clothing cannot foul triggerguard.

Clothing cannot foul safety device.

Oil is confined to holster.

Front sight will NOT catch clothing during draw, allowing a fast, speedy draw to occur.

Sharp edges are covered and confined inside the holster.

Good Holster Cons

Not quite as convenient as holsterless. Hell, some rigs take as long as 5 seconds to put on and seconds count in the morning!

Perhaps not as comfortable in the short term, but a good holster alleviates 99% or more of that, especially in the long term.

Not as cost effective as "free," if that trumps all the positive attributes a good holster provides.

Might betray the wearer as a "Good Guy."


Maybe there are some things I've overlooked, but these seem to be the main points.

 

[EddieNFL]

No Holster Cons

Shifts around in the belt, making firing grip impossible.
--Try a quality and properly fitting belt.

Falls below the belt, making firing grip impossible.
--See above.

Falls thru the pant leg, making firing grip impossible.
--See above.

Falls out during activity, making firing grip impossible.
--See above (but be smart; don't use this carry method during a game of touch football).

Requires constant adjustment, betraying the fact person is armed.
--See above.

No security against gun grabs.
--Do all your holsters have retention devices (commonly called "Shoot me first" holsters)?

Clothing can foul triggerguard. (Plaxico Burris, anyone?)
--Burris pulled the trigger.

Clothing can foul safety device.
--Not all holsters cover the safety.

Oil stained clothing.
--This isn't a problem with a properly lubed weapon. Also, I'm not aware of anyone who died from stained clothing.

Front sight may catch clothing during draw, preventing said draw.
--I honestly don't know what to say, other than the multi-thousands of times I've drawn from the waistband it hasn't happened, yet. Maybe my mother dresses me better?

Sharp edges can gouge skin/clothing.
--Dehorn? Develop calluses?

In 30-some years of carrying a 1911, I occasionally go holsterless (my mother doesn't know). I train for the two (slightly) different carry methods I use and have never experienced any of the above problems. Maybe I'm just lucky. If that's the case, it's gotta be a record run.

P.S. You forgot, "The safety may be accidently disengaged."

 

[rcmodel]

and have never experienced any of the above problems.

Neither have I, in my almost 50 years of doing it on occasion..

What works with a GI 1911, and what sounds like it might not work if you haven't done it, are two very different things indeed.

IMO: Mexican carry with a stock 1911 is a viable alternative to a holster on occasion.
It will not fall out on the ground, or fall down your pants leg, or shift around, or shoot you.

And as I said earlier, if your GI style safety is working as designed, it won't come off by accident in your pants.

I would not do it with a Glock on a bet, but feel perfectly at ease doing it with a 1911.

rc

 

[KBintheSLC]

I don't and won't carry ANY handgun on my body without a holster of some sort.

Ditto x 1000!

Just ask Plaxico Burress why its a dumb idea.

 

[rcmodel]

Plaxico Burress has nothing to do with the OP's question.

He shot himself with a Safe-Action Glock, by pulling the trigger.
Had it been a Cocked & Locked 1911, nothing would have happened.

rc

 

[EddieNFL]

I would not do it with a Glock on a bet, but feel perfectly at ease doing it with a 1911.

I don't think I could get a 1911 to slide past my belt if I tried. IMO that is due to the shape of the gun (also, I don't have to hold my pants up when I walk). Although I've never tried it, a Glock just looks like it would find its way to your shoe.

 

[SomeDude]

I'm getting pretty tired of David E.
I carry with a Clipdraw. I guess that just makes me half bad.

 

[David E]

Eddie, go for a 50 yd flat out run with your holsterless gun in your pants and tell us at what yard marker the gun falls out at.

I'm betting it'll be around yard 35.

You guys want to go holsterless, that's your choice. But I notice no one has tried to say why holsterless is better than using a good holster.

 

[David E]

IMO: Mexican carry with a stock 1911 is a viable alternative to a holster on occasion. It will not fall out on the ground, or fall down your pants leg, or shift around, or shoot you.

But all of those things have happened to other folks.........what makes them different?

 

[PT1911]

WHEN is carrying holsterless necessary, more convenient, or even comfortable than grabbing a holster? I dont know about any of you but a large gun against my bare back, side, groin is not a comfortable thing. Sitting here I cannot think of any reason why someone would choose this method of carry unless their hand is permanently affixed to the front of their pants anyhow (still inconvenient, uncomfortable, and extremely slow to draw... guns have a lot of edges!!!!)

BTW... my previous statements have nothing to do with a clip-draw... at least it secures the gun to the pants.

 

[KBintheSLC]

WHEN is carrying holsterless necessary, more convenient, or even comfortable than grabbing a holster?

This is the real issue here... not Plaxico. If I could find a reason not to use a holster, I might consider it. I guess if the world ran out of them, and I had to sneak my piece into the Thunderdome...

 

[EddieNFL]

Eddie, go for a 50 yd flat out run with your holsterless gun in your pants and tell us at what yard marker the gun falls out at.

I'm betting it'll be around yard 35.

You guys want to go holsterless, that's your choice. But I notice no one has tried to say why holsterless is better than using a good holster.

You lost that bet. In 1979 a friend and I were hunting. He took a spill and broke his leg. I left my shotgun with him and ran about 1,000 yards to the truck (I couldn't carry him as I was 165 and he was 230). The 1911 was still in my belt when I got there...and, no. I never put my hand on it. Honestly, if it had fallen out, I probably wouldn't have noticed.

As in all other endeavors, practice a little common sense. If you're playing Twister, use a holster.

You guys want to go holsterless, that's your choice.

That's extremely generous.

But I notice no one has tried to say why holsterless is better than using a good holster.

I believe someone mentioned grabbing a gun in a hurry. Also, it's cheaper. The only time I do so (these days) is in church beause I dress a little differently. The gun sits a little lower and no added bulk from a holster. I do this so as not to scare little old ladies should they notice. Elsewhere I don't care if someone "thinks" I'm wearing a gun.

You're posting your opinions, I'm posting my experiences. Neither are wrong, just different. Going holsterless isn't for everyone.

 

[Hoxviii]

I carry Mexican or tuck it into my belt occaisonally, but I have come across one issue. The mag release gets hit sometimes.

This typically happens when i tuck it into my belt strong side, but I've also had it happen crossdrawn Mexican once.

 

[rcmodel]

Mexican carry is strong side, behind the hip.

I don't know what you call cross-draw or appendix in the front of your pants.
Gansta maybe? Or Paxico maybe?

Historically, Mexican carry was invented during the Mexican revolution and afterward when civilian gun ownership was banned.
Mexican cowboys took to carrying a handgun behind the hip strong-side with no gun belt.

Should they meet a military patrol on the trail, they could discreetly drop the gun from behind their back in the cacti & brush, and come back and get it later after the Federalies left.

Me? A gun? No sir!
No gun-belt or holster?
No gun!

Comprende?

rc

 

[EddieNFL]

I carry Mexican or tuck it into my belt occaisonally, but I have come across one issue. The mag release gets hit sometimes.

This typically happens when i tuck it into my belt strong side, but I've also had it happen crossdrawn Mexican once.

You need to eat more as you're obviously too fit.

Seriously, what part of your body hits the mag catch?

 

[Slamfire]

Would any of you feel comfortable carrying cocked and locked 1911 just tucked in waistband, no holster? My concern would be thumb safety coming off. I know there's still the grip safe, sometimes I don't like fiddling with a holster

Call me a nervous Nelly, but I don't and won't.

This pistol was developed in the first decade of the last century. That safety is on there so the horse cavalry could make the pistol safe with one hand after shooting the thing.

They carried it with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. They drew it and cocked the hammer when they wanted to shoot.

I am certain they had accidental discharges lowering the hammer.

 

[Hoxviii]

Mexican carry is strong side, behind the hip.

I don't know what you call cross-draw or appendix in the front of your pants.
Gansta maybe? Or Paxico maybe?

Thanks for the correction. I know the history behind it, i just got the positions bass ackwards.

If I carry a 1911 Mexican the crest of my pelvis is exactly at mag catch level. If I sit down and lean back against a chair back or bend over too far forward, it will hit the release. Not everytime, but frequently enough that I only do for "bump in the night" situations anymore.

And yes, I'm not one that carries any extra weight around the waist.

 

[EddieNFL]

I guess I have too much padding around my pelvis...or maybe just enough.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpsDressedMan
Just for information sake, and I know there are scores of people who will criticize me, but I carry some 1911's and some other SA autos chamber empty, and figure if I don't have the 1/4-1/2 second it adds to my draw to jack the slide, then if was my bad day. With the 40 plus years I've been packing a pistol, and the three occasions I would have been justified in shooting a bad guy, I've had time to chamber a round if I'd have needed it. For ME, it's just safer, gives me an edge if struggling for MY weapon (I know the chamber is empty, the other guy has to guess), and I can pack "Mexican Carry" (pistol in waistband, no holster) whenever I want.

"What if your other arm/hand is injured or busy doing something else, like pushing the BG away?"

A lot of what if's, but I address. First, injured hand: Take the gun in the good/free hand, and jam the bottom the slide against some thing hard nearby (barricade, curb, heel of shoe, belt) and snag the slde to the rear. OR, a 1911 or Browning Hi Power can be racked by inserting finger in front of trigger guard and using thumb to push the slide to the rear (slower, but will work when injured and only have one hand). I have even snagged the bottom of the slide on the meaty portion of my other hand (into the upper palm) and pushed the slide back. 2) CQB/ contact fighting with a badguy, wack him in the face with the gun, then utilize methods above, if injured, one handed, or dealing with the assailant with the other hand. Not fooproof, but what is? All the above methods work, but require a bit of practice to have them "in mind" during a defense.

 

[EddieNFL]

Depending on the rear sight design, you can catch it on your belt and rack. I've racked the slide between my knees in matches that require one hand loading (also a good place to insert a fresh mag. I have one 1911 that will drop the slide if you seat the mag with a good smack.