Am I the only one here who doesn't like to "work on" his pistols?

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RickMD said:
I see lots of guns that have been "improved" by their previous owners for sale in local gun shop display cases.
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What kind of "improvements" are you talking about that are so glaringly obvious? For example, if I handed you a pair of Blackhawks that I modified with Power Custom kits, you would never know they had been modified by looking at them. If you were knowledgeable about the Blackhawk revolver, you'd only figure out that they function differently (better) once you handled them. If I removed the Power Custom kits and reinstalled the original hammers, triggers, springs etc., even with the modified transfer bar still in place and a great deal of familiarity with the platform, you'd never know.

As for working on firearms and then selling them ... no thanks. Why would I spend time and money getting one to exactly where I want it and then get rid of it? I don't work on firearms just because. I have specific objectives in mind namely, reliability, function, accuracy and longevity. As shocking as it may seem, not all firearms manufacturers put as much effort into achieving those objectives as I do. But that isn't surprising since they have to produce a product at a specific price point. Generally, if you want all four you'll have to pay for it. You can find three out of four or passing grades for four out of four at considerably lower cost (GLOCK for example) but as soon as the hands on time goes up, so does the cost.

It seems to me that you want to paint everyone with the same brush. Anyone who dares to work on their own guns is a hack and yet there are thousands of useless, ignorant and incompetent certified gunsmiths screwing up firearms every day.
 
As for working on firearms and then selling them ... no thanks. Why would I spend time and money getting one to exactly where I want it and then get rid of it?
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Then you answered your own question, didn't you? I believe I said it decreases the resale for most folks. If you're going to keep it that's your business, but I'm not interested in buying any gun that's been worked on by a kitchen table gunsmith.

I personally have a Browning Hi-Power hard chromed, accurized, Spiegel grips, custom sights, and trigger job done by Don Williams of the Action Works. Will I ever get the money I dumped in it back? Probably not and it's a 100% professional job with documentation.
 
I haven't done anything beyond field stripping (or and equivalent level activity) with any of my guns.
 
RickMD said:
I personally have a Browning Hi-Power hard chromed, accurized, Spiegel grips, custom sights, and trigger job done by Don Williams of the Action Works. Will I ever get the money I dumped in it back? Probably not and it's a 100% professional job with documentation.
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If you shoot the Browning and enjoy it, who cares if you recoup the money you invested. It's the same way with my Kimber TEII that is heavily modified by my favorite "kitchen table gunsmith". I've only been shooting USPSA single stack for about a year but I'm knocking off more and more production and limited "major and minor" shooters each match shooting "major" with the Kimber ... 23 at the last match. Improving my techniques, times and scores each match is worth a hundred times more than any hypothetical loss I may have taken. I've shot close to 2,000 match rounds without a single problem and I've seen bone stock production guns choke, including GLOCKS by the way. The Kimber isn't for sale now, next week or in a few months when I start using an Ed Brown Special Forces for USPSA. I've had offers by the way.
 
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RickMD said:
I personally have a Browning Hi-Power hard chromed, accurized, Spiegel grips, custom sights, and trigger job done by Don Williams of the Action Works. Will I ever get the money I dumped in it back? Probably not and it's a 100% professional job with documentation.
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I have more than a few firearms, most in stock form, but very few that I could sell for more than I paid for them. I have a Colt Python 4" stainless that I bought NIB in '93 and that's probably the only firearm I have that I could make a small profit on. It cost me $750 in '93, but when you figure in inflation, that's about $1,100 today. Bottom line, stock, custom or DIY ... few of them make for good investments but we'll still use that rationale with our significant others ;) . If you want to invest in firearm related futures, buy powder, primers and bullets. Those do accrue value over a relatively short period of time.
 
Originally Posted by 1858
I don't work on firearms just because. I have specific objectives in mind namely, reliability, function, accuracy and longevity. As shocking as it may seem, not all firearms manufacturers put as much effort into achieving those objectives as I do. But that isn't surprising since they have to produce a product at a specific price point. Generally, if you want all four you'll have to pay for it. You can find three out of four or passing grades for four out of four at considerably lower cost (GLOCK for example) but as soon as the hands on time goes up, so does the cost.
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It sounds like you are either very knowledgable regarding gunsmithing and do the work yourself OR you use the services of a high quality qunsmith. If this works for you, GREAT. I didn't post this thread to demean people who modify their guns. I was just wondering if there were people like me who have never found the need to modify ANY of their guns...people who've obtained outstanding results with BONE STOCK pistols.

However, I don't really agree with your assertion that top notch reliability, function, accuracy, and longevity are only obtainable with a custom gun with hundreds of dollars of extra parts and gunsmithing in it. I guess if you NEED to shoot sub 1" groups at 25 yards with a 1911, yeah, it's probably gonna require a couple thousand dollars. But case in point, my BONE STOCK Glock 17 with almost 14,000 rounds through it. The gun has malfunctioned exactly 3 times. Twice due to a bad batch of crappy Russian steel case ammo that I later found out had been recalled (not the gun's fault). And once due to a round that had been over-crimped (again not the gun's fault). So I have a bone stock gun, that I can shoot better groups with than some guys with their high-test customized 1911s, which has essentially been PERFECT in almost 14,000 rounds.

Glock17.gif
 
All mine are stock except for a couple of Colts that I got a good deal on because they were modified by a previous owner.

I guess I've been mighty fortunate, but I haven't run into an unreliable new gun yet. The only problems I've had with some used guns were cured with a good cleaning.
 
StrikeFire83 said:
However, I don't really agree with your assertion that top notch reliability, function, accuracy, and longevity are only obtainable with a custom gun with hundreds of dollars of extra parts and gunsmithing in it. I guess if you NEED to shoot sub 1" groups at 25 yards with a 1911, yeah, it's probably gonna require a couple thousand dollars.
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You're confusing your needs with absolutes that are independent of need.

Like I said ...

"Generally, if you want all four you'll have to pay for it. You can find three out of four or passing grades for four out of four at considerably lower cost (GLOCK for example) but as soon as the hands on time goes up, so does the cost."

... GLOCKs and SIGs have more than acceptable combat accuracy. Put a SIG P220 or GLOCK 21 in a ransom rest and you won't see anything close to 1" groups. But who cares?! They're not designed for that. Now put a Dan Wesson Valor in the same rest and it'll shoot 1" groups with a variety of ammunition in addition to being just as reliable, being just as functional and with equal longevity. The Valor with a similar finish is an $1,800 pistol compared to a GLOCK 21 at around $600 and a SIG P220 at around $800. This is my point ... if you want all four variables optimized, it's going to cost you some money. The question is do you need/want all four variables optimized.


StrikeFire83 said:
So I have a bone stock gun, that I can shoot better groups with than some guys with their high-test customized 1911s, which has essentially been PERFECT in almost 14,000 rounds.
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You're comparing yourself to other shooters, not one pistol platform to another. Also, your GLOCK is a 9mm Luger, are they shooting the same cartridge or .45 ACP? Shoot a GLOCK 21 for goups then a Dan Wesson Valor or any quality 1911. Something is very wrong if you shoot smaller groups with the GLOCK.
 
Originally Posted by Zerodefect
Bone stock Glock.....

I'll bet the planet mars that I can hammer some good sights on that Glock and make a significant improvement with speed and accuracy.
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That very well may be true. But we'll never know. After nearly 14k rounds with no changes (I hear I should swap out the recoil spring, and I have a new one that Glock sent me for free waiting in the wings, but the damn thing just keeps running and running) this beast is staying untouched until something breaks or somebody else owns it.
 
I love discount kitchen table hack jobs gives me a chance to get great guns at even better prices that can either be restored or rebuilt to run the way they were meant to at half the cost of buying a untouched model .I just received a ivory johnson 20 ga that someone took a whack at luckily I got it before he loped the barrel but the stock is cut to a pistol grip and the forarm is cut down so I can build some new walnut furniture using the original metal and I payed a whopping 25 bucks for it.It's not so much a tinker project as a rescue operation.
 
I got a Glock mostly because I *could* work on them with just about the ultimate ease.

It was disturbing to find out that I *would* be working on one of them. :banghead:

Oh well, at least my other one runs perfect.
 
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Originally Posted by 1858
You're confusing your needs with absolutes that are independent of need.
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Maybe so, but I stated this thread to inquire if there were other people who, like me, have never found the need to "work on" "tinker with" or use a gunsmith to modify any of their firearms. I never said my needs encompass EVERYONE'S needs. There are people who are perfectly happy with Hipoints and Jimenez guns...I'd never spend a dime on either of them. There are also people who turn their noses up at anything that isn't a one-off highly customized work of shooting art. I feel like I fit somewhere in between these two groups.

Originally Posted by 1858
You're comparing yourself to other shooters, not one pistol platform to another. Also, your GLOCK is a 9mm Luger, are they shooting the same cartridge or .45 ACP? Shoot a GLOCK 21 for goups then a Dan Wesson Valor or any quality 1911. Something is very wrong if you shoot smaller groups with the GLOCK.
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I don't see any need to turn this into a Glock v. 1911 thread, but just since you asked, the most accurately that I've ever shot a pistol was with my dear departed Kimber Custom II. I could pretty easily keep my shots within the area of a grapefruit at 25 yards offhand, which is very good for me. Much better than I've ever been with my Glock 17, even after nearly 14k rounds. The Kimber Custom II was the most expensive gun I've ever purchased...paid $750 back in 2005 when I didn't know much about pistols or how to shop around for the best price. Sadly, the darn thing was never reliable with anything but FMJ ball ammo, and despite its outstanding accuracy, I sold it at a loss.

And old Glocky still makes the trip with me every time I go to the range.
 
StrikeFire83 said:
I don't see any need to turn this into a Glock v. 1911 thread
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But you did just that in your original post. Anyone capable of reading and understanding third grade English knows that. Why else would you make the comment below in a thread about working on your own guns? How is sending a $1,000+ pistol back to the factory relevant to working on your own guns? Answer: it isn't. It's your way of raising your perfect GLOCK up above the less-than-perfect 1911 because you never had to send your GLOCK back and never had to "chalk" anything up to tight tolerances. I could care less if you prefer your GLOCK to the 1911, but if you're going to complain about the direction of your thread, don't assume that everyone fell off the back of a turnip truck.

StrikeFire83 said:
people who don't blink at sending a $1,000+ pistol back to the factory several times to get it working properly and then laugh/chalk it to "tight tolerances".
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But you did just that in your original post. Anyone capable of reading and understanding third grade English knows that. Why else would you make the comment below in a thread about working on your own guns? How is sending a $1,000+ pistol back to the factory relevant to working on your own guns? Answer: it isn't. It's your way of raising your perfect GLOCK up above the less-than-perfect 1911 because you never had to send your GLOCK back and never had to "chalk" anything up to tight tolerances.
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Kind of seems like you might be pushing your own insecurities onto me. I have a lot of respect for the 1911 platform, and my dream gun is an Ed Brown Special Forces. Hopefully someday I'll have the $$ for one. And I have no bias against all steel guns, as my CZ-75B is my best and most accurate shooter. I might add that it was bought used, never modified, and I've put over 5,000 malfunction-free rounds through it in the last 5 years. :)

You are right, though. I've never had to send my $500 Glock back to the factory. Or my $400 CZ-75B. Or my $600 Kahr PM9. Or my $450 XD. And I haven't modified or messed around any of them either. But people can bastardize a Glock just as easily as they can bastardize a 1911. Making swiss cheese out of the grip, buying unnecessary aftermarket recoil springs and barrels, etc.
 
StrikeFire83 wrote:
"...buying unnecessary aftermarket recoil springs and barrels, etc"

It is only unnecessary if you are content with what the gun is. Some aspire to higher levels of performance either:
out of the nature of their being; or
the real need of a chosen activity or duty.

That is the choice of the owner/shooter of the pistol. Sometimes it is through experience and shooting the pistol we find shortcoming in our expectations. Shoot bullseye with your Glock then tell me accurizing a pistol is unnecessary. BTW, you won't see any Glock in a serious bullseye match.
StrikeFire83 - you, the OP and several other posters do no more than shoot and maintain their guns. Nothing wrong with that. But for those of us that do modify we do for the reasons given above. And as in those two reasons above...it is a choice to do or not to do.
 
With proper lube my 1911 walks all over my Glock 23 except in CCW comfort, capacity, and speed of draw. But my Glock 23 is damn accurate, at least it is now, after I replaced the cheesey stock sights.

Your lack of maintainence to your G21 is nothing to brag about. It'll run 100%, until they day you really need it. Then it'll jam. Happens all the time with Glocks.

I could count the amount of officers who've had a jam in action, with a Glock,M&P, XD, or other uber reliable pistol, that's allways been super reliable despite poor maintainence,.....but I would need more fingers to count that high.
 
What the hell is so pretty about a 1911? I just don't feel the mystical attraction. I work part time as a range officer and the other day this dude comes in with a three grand Ed Wilson in CUSTOM made mahogany box and even had a selections of custom blended lubricants. We watched as he meticulously lubed and fired his shrine to John Moses Browning. I then went to the lane next to him and blew a 2 inch smoking hole in a bulls eye target at 25 yards with the range rental Glock 21. Then I popped off the slide and spit on the 4 rail contact points for lubrication and then got the group down to about 1 1/2 inches. I also told him we had some Egyptian Sphinx 1911 oil for $35.00 an ounce and he actually wanted to see it! You just can't make this stuff up.
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LOL!!!

There are so many different guns available on today's market, if you don't just buy exactly what you want in the first place you are wasting money. You no longer have to buy the base model and modify it to your desired specifications, chances are one or more companies already offer it strait out of the box.
 
There are so many different guns available on today's market, if you don't just buy exactly what you want in the first place you are wasting money. You no longer have to buy the base model and modify it to your desired specifications, chances are one or more companies already offer it strait out of the box.
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:barf:

What a narrow minded approach.
 
Justin Holder said:
LOL!!!

There are so many different guns available on today's market, if you don't just buy exactly what you want in the first place you are wasting money. You no longer have to buy the base model and modify it to your desired specifications, chances are one or more companies already offer it strait out of the box.
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Ok. Game ON!

I'll bet an Arleigh Burke Destroyer that you can't find me a box stock pistol with these features (pic required):

-1911 5"
-10-8 rear sight, Dawson front
-Tear drop shaped thumb safety
-monolitic dustcover
-solid Al trigger
-hardhat or melonite black finish on everything
-no MIM, and no cheap components anywhere
-VZ grips, tactical diamond thick
-no billboards
-undercut trigger guard
-Ed Brown Grip safety

That truely is what I require, mostly , for a combat pistol. Anything less shows up really quick on stop watches and scorecards.
 
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