Am I the only one here who doesn't like to "work on" his pistols?

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Of the pistols and revolvers I have bought of late they go out for 1 of 2 things,trigger jobs, better sights or both. I've several Ruger single and double action revolvers and all have had trigger pulls that nothing short of a tranquillized gorilla could manage. The exception is my Ruger SRH in 454 not sure I want a lighter pull on that cannon. my 2 92fs pistols replaced the mainspring with a "D" springs. Soon I'm going to send the bolts out from my 2 Ruger MK II to get the extractors replaced. In my 40+ yerars of owning various pistols,revolvers and rifles most come from the factory lawyer proofed not that I blame the factory for it,but who wants to have X firearm with a 10 lb trigger pull and god awful sights.
If your buying a gun for plinking/farting around fine but if your going to use it to hunt or self defence it may need a bit of tweaking.
 
Mods, feel free to lock this thread, as I had no intention of it turning into a Glock vs 1911 shout-fest.
 
Before this thread gets locked ... consider the data from one of Dave Severns' 1911 tests. These 5-shot groups shot at 25 yards FROM A RANSOM REST with some of the most accurate 1911s available and yet a GLOCK 21 is capable of 1-1/2" or even 2" groups offhand at 25 yards :rolleyes: . I bolded the only 1911 in the list that I own. Dave Severns has other reviews with similar results FROM A RANSOM REST.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=321236

Average Group; 230gr Federal FMJ Ammunition
Rank Pistol Group Size
1.Severns Custom modified Dan Wesson Valor: 0.854”
2.Dan Wesson black Valor: 1.398”
3.Springfield Armory Professional: 1.676”
4.Baer 1.5” Guarantee Thunder Ranch Special: 1.766”
5.Baer standard Thunder Ranch Special: 1.983”
6.Springfield 9109LP Loaded: 4.504

Average group; 200 gr H&G 68 lead SWC Ammunition
Rank Pistol Group Size
1.Severns Custom modified Dan Wesson Valor: 1.209”
2.Springfield Armory Professional: 1.215”
3.Baer 1.5” Guarantee Thunder Ranch Special: 1.417”
4.Dan Wesson black Valor: 1.623”
5.Baer standard Thunder Ranch Special: 1.915”
6.Springfield 9109LP Loaded: 2.223”

Overall Average Of All Groups Fired With Both Ammo Types
Rank Pistol Group Size
1.Severns Custom modified Dan Wesson Valor 1.032”
2.Springfield Professional 1.446”
3.Dan Wesson black Valor 1.511”
4.Baer 1.5” Guarantee Thunder Ranch Special 1.592”
5.Baer standard Thunder Ranch Special 1.949”
6.Springfield 9109LP Loaded 3.364”
 
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More 1911 data from Dave Severns shooting 5-shot groups at 25 yards from a ransom rest. GLOCKs are superb combat accurate pistols that don't need much if any work ... why isn't that enough? Why the need to lie and make them out to be something they're not? I have eight SIGs that are more than combat accurate enough but they're not capable of consistently shooting 1-1/2" groups at 25 yards ... and that's fine with me. I have other pistols that can do that ... well, almost.

http://forum.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=255555

Win White Box (WWB), Rem Ball (REM), and LSWC hand loads (LSWC).

Dan Wesson Valor 1.56, 1.08, 1.43
Les Baer TRS 1.17, 0.96, 1.39
Ed Brown Kobra 3.11, 1.35, 1.41
Kimber Classic Custom 3.15, 1.13, 1.55
Sig GSR 2.43, 1.29, 1.55
Colt Combat Elite 6.50, 4.75, 3.82
Severns Modified Valor 1.21, 0.95, 0.79
Fusion 9mm CBOB Group 1.43, 1.25, 1.64
 
StrikeFire83 said:
Well, 1858, you sure are good at hijacking threads.
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This thread is toast anyways.

:cool:says: "I like modding my guns to shoot better and to suit my hands and eyes."

:confused: says: "I keep mine stock, I just find one that fits out of the hundreds that are out there."

:evil: says: "Glocks rule, why bother with custom guns, I like to lube with butter. I can shoot perfect groups while doing Spetsnaz backflips."

:eek: says: "Waht? 1911's be accurate and stuff."


I say this thread is over and now should be a pic thread of cats eating poptarts near autoloading pistols.
 
StrikeFire83 said:
Well, 1858, you sure are good at hijacking threads.
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You mentioned the 1911 in your first post in this thread so this is hardly a hijack. In that sentence you implied that GLOCKs, unlike 1911s, don't need to go back to the factory, don't suffer from "tight tolerances", work as God intended right out of the box and until the end of time, and require no "fluff and buff". If you're going to make those claims, then you have to be open to the notion that every firearm is a compromise, and that reliability at a specific price point comes at the expense of other "desirable" features. Those of us that see each platform for what it is, both strengths and weaknesses, can decide for ourselves if combat accurate handguns (GLOCKs, SIGs, M&Ps, XDs etc.) are capable of world-class groups from a rest, let alone offhand. While we're deciding, we can look up the dimensions of the NRA Bullseye 25 yard slow fire target and discover that the 10-ring measures 1.51".

If it's possible to buy a firearm this is capable of world class performance in terms of accuracy, that's 100% reliable with a wide variety of ammunition, that can maintain both accuracy and reliability for very high round counts with minimal maintenance, and is affordable ... would you want one!?
 
No, I am a stock guy too. The attraction of a gun to me is what it looks like and not what I think I can do to it.

That being said, I just bought my first 1911, a SA MilSpec, and I'm thinking of putting different grips on it, but the price has got to be right.

I just don't think a lot of mods helps increase the overall value if you plan on selling it. Just my humble opinion.
 
Okay, 1858, you really have a talent for misstatement and obfuscation. Lets look as my first post:

Originally Posted by StrikeFire83
So let me set the stage for my question. By "work on" I don't mean regular cleaning, scheduled maintenance/part changes, and the occasional detail strip. That all goes with the territory if you want to own firearms, and these are all tasks that I'm only too happy to perform.

No, I'm referring to people who don't seem the least bit bothered by having to "fluff and buff" a brand new gun, people who don't blink at sending a $1,000+ pistol back to the factory several times to get it working properly and then laugh/chalk it to "tight tolerances." The kind of people who will buy a $600 Springfield Mil-Spec and then spend $1,500 bolting parts onto it and hanging pieces off of it until they end up with something inferior to a NIB Ed Brown.

I'm not badmouthing these kind of people. I'm just wondering if I'm the only person around here who finds a gun he likes, buys it, leaves it stock, shoots it and maintains it, and get 1,000s of trouble free rounds out of it.
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The fluff and buff comment was directed at a certain ultra cheap brand that has an entire message board that encourages buyers to take dremels and sandpaper to their brand new guns.

Okay, so please show me exactly WHERE I dump on the 1911 platform or say that it is inferior to Glock. You can't, because I don't. I see Ed Brown 1911s as the pinnacle of handguns. Guns with impeccable accuracy that are dead nuts reliable. I may not be able to afford one now, but I will someday. And when I do buy it, I'll leave it stock and enjoy the heck out of it. :neener:
 
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I don't like to tinker but I think it's only because I don't have the patience for it. If I buy a gun, it's going to be shot the way it is, if I don't like it the way it is, I don't buy it. I don't mind taking a gun apart for cleaning but fixing? I don't think so :)
 
I hate having to deal with problems so I figure if I leave the firearm the way that it came from the factory, I'm unlikely to encounter any. If I do, it's the factory's problem; not mine. JMO, of course.;)
 
What happened to Ed Wilson? :confused:

StrikeFire83 said:
I see Ed Brown 1911s as the pinnacle of handguns. Guns with impeccable accuracy that are dead nuts reliable. I may not be able to afford one now, but I will someday. And when I do buy it, I'll leave it stock and enjoy the heck out of it.
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Progress .... something we can almost agree on. I have two Ed Browns with a third on the way but I don't see them as the "pinnacle of handguns". I see them for what they are and I will continue to buy them for what they are. However, I do agree about leaving them stock and enjoying the heck out of them. Thread back on track ... right?
 
I love working on them, but I won't fix a new gun that doesn't work. If I choose to add parts as mentioned in the 1911 area that's one thing, but if I buy a new gun for over $500.00, it had better work the way it was supposed to, or it's going back to the manufacturer or gun store. Cars toasters, whatever are supposed to function as advertised, or they are defective in my eyes. I enjoy making the gun more personell, maybe a pair of vz or Sarges grips, and night sights, or a target barrell or a mag change to a wilson or mccormick. But no tool work to get it to work, if I take a tool to a working gun I assume the riskd of voiding my warantee and ruining the gun. Being handy and being a gunsmith are not the same.I am not about to take it upon myself to alter the main components of an expensive pistol, with the hope that what I do is better than what the manufacturer did.Or what a skilled craftsmen is going to be capable of doing. It's like cutting your own hair. You may get it right if it's trimming the sideburns, but try cutting 3 or 4 inches off and see what it looks like. That's why we have people who specialize in areas we don't.
 
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I believe that the 1911 platform allows a tinkerer to tweak a gun to his satisfaction. I also believe that is a major reason it is so popular even today. You can change almost any part of your 1911 to something you like whether it's how it looks to how it functions to it not being MIM. Long triggers, short triggers, solid, skeletonized, etc. Thumb safeties come in different shapes, sizes and textures. Slide stops, base or extended, checkered or slotted, etc. Hammers come in all different looks. Sears can be tweaked to the shooters liking. MSHs can also be changed to a specific preference. Grip safeties can have no bump, a small bump or a big bump. They can be base stock or beavertail, long or short. Sights can be whatever you desire. Most of these changes are for the benefit of the shooter and you can learn on the fly. Change the trigger, don't like it, change it back, etc. Keep all the original parts if you ever decide to sell it and usually no one is the wiser. It is the ultimate gun for those who like to tinker. I can detail strip a 1911 or BHP blindfolded and reassemble it too all by touch. I run my fingertip over every part of a 1911 feeling for imperfections, burrs or whatever. You can feel things you can't see. If you look at the internals of any of my 1911s they still look new even though they have fired thousands of rounds. I like that but that's me. Half the fun of going to the range is cleaning the guns after it. My PM9 just hit 2000 rounds today but the guts look like 200 rounds yet I've never done more than field strip it but I do used compressed air every few hundred rounds. No need to. The same with my CZs. Field strip, yes, every trip. Detail strip, no need. If/when I wish to do a trigger job I will do it without hesitation but all 3 of my CZs have nice triggers that have "matured" by shooting or dry firing. I've never detailed stripped my Kimber Gold Combat once the original cleaning was done. No need. Everything is as I want it and it's been perfect. The point is the 1911 is the one gun that you can customize it and have fun doing it. It may be OCD or some unnamed illness but I think it's all a part of the 1911 experience.
 
Progress .... something we can almost agree on. I have two Ed Browns with a third on the way but I don't see them as the "pinnacle of handguns". I see them for what they are and I will continue to buy them for what they are. However, I do agree about leaving them stock and enjoying the heck out of them. Thread back on track ... right?
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Sounds good to me.
 
Alll of my "shootin' irons" are factory box-stock, except for the Volquartzen extractors in my MKII pistol & 10/22. have put Hogue grips on my KP-90 Ruger..that is it.
 
My eye sight is bad, I shake too much, and I do NOT know what I'm doing.....so no, I don't work on my firearms. I didn't mind breaking a few down and putting them back together in my younger days, but my frustration level was much lower 30-40 years ago.
 
Precisely why I eschew the 1911 platform. While I know that the overwhelming majority of them work, I also see too many threads about polishing this, replacing that etc. I buy guns that go bang when I pull the trigger. If they fail to do so, they go elsewhere.
 
My shooters are all an exercise in fine tuning and continuous improvement. It's what makes it fun - the whole hobby is this way for me.
 
You can lock it yourself in the Thread Tools drop down on the upper right top of the page.
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Hmmm, I don't get that option when I click on threat tools. "Show printable version" "email this page" and "subscribe to this thread" are the only options I get.

The thread has served its purpose and answered my question. NO, I'm not the only one who tends to leave his guns "stock" and shoot the snot out of them.
 
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