Amateur Knife Making

[7X57chilmau]

Back from vacation! Fog never cleared, so missed out on the stepfather's new blunderbuss.... Bummer...

Your bowie looks good, Mok!

I use a galvanized steel wash tub for my quench tank. Allows quenching of works up to about 18" long, in used motor oil.... Seems to do the job.

J

 

[hso]

handle almost goes right over the tang, but just doesnt.

show us first

Is your tang forged down to a rat tail or is it still full width and thickness. If full width you should just cut the antler in half lengthways and pin the scales on with some epoxy in the middle. If you have a stick tang then you should just heat dull red hot and burn it in.

 

[Mokwepa]

Ill get a pic up tomorrow. Battery is flat. Im basically using a one piece blank of teak. I stood it verticle under the drill press and drilled three holes the length of the tang. Then cleaned/joined up the holls with a file. What a anoying tedious job. I did get it to fit in the end, slightly loose but going to use epoxy filler and then pin it once the blade is done and handle shaped.

I drilled holes through the gaurd and now need to create a rectangular slot for the tang, even a bigger pain. The gaurd is 6mm leaf spring that has been anneald. It drills easily but is to small to fit a decent file in . Ill do what my dad says, ill worry it out.

My tang is basically a rectangle 80x15x6mm and is not taperd. Wanted to keep it fairly bulky and strong.

 

[hso]

rectangle 80x15x6mm

Then you want to cut the wood into two halves and either flat epoxy and pin it on or you want to cut it in half and router/gouge a channel down the middle that you epoxy and pin.

You've taken the hard route and will have tons of trouble getting a good fit (unless you make a reduced tang).

 

[Mokwepa]

My goodness you are right. Got the handle to fit with allot of effort. Shaped the handle last night and did the basic sharpening of the blade. Just need to shape the slot in the gaurd for the tang, more hard work Its looking good. Definately my best work yet, but i supose it aint over untill its over.

 

[bikerdoc]

Still lurking and learning. Feeling a bit better, going slow and with careful thinking. By wearing a brace on my arm,, vise grips, clamps and gloves have started to grind again about an hour a day.
Keep educating me guys!

 

[7X57chilmau]

Doc, glad you're feeling better..... All the repetative motions required for stock removal on a knife blade could be hell on an aging hand.... I know mine (not yet aged, early 30's) require frequent shake-out even when sharpening a new blade... Any fine work tends to cramp'em up.

Here's a tip for ya, Doc, though it involves using power tools for stock removal: Alot of us enjoy hollow ground blades, but most think this to be beyond the tooling of the average joe. It's not.

You can hollow grind a blade with a hand-held angle grinder. Here's how I do it. First, have the outline of the blade more or less finalized. I often use a bench grinder for this. Just shaping the spine and profile of the edge. I use the bench grinder to put a 45 degree per side edge on the knife. This gives me a guide so I can visually see how much edge thickness is left as I grind the hollows...

Now I C-clamp the knife by the tang to a piece of angle iron that I can chuck in a bench or post vice. I try to set the knife at about mid-belly level, point towards my belly. The point is over the angle iron, making things safer.

I get the angle grinder and install a heavily glazed surface grinding wheel on it. Badly glazed wheels cut slowly and leave a relatively smooth surface compared to a fresh wheel. You can cause a wheel to become heavily glazed by surface grinding a piece of steel with excessive feed pressure, and allowing the work to become very hot. The glazed wheel will look like many of the spaces between the grains have been filled in. I like to ensure that it has no sharp corners on the grinding surfaces too, as I prepare the wheel.

Now brace the back of the angle grinder in your lower chest, with the wheel at an angle to the face to be ground. The higher the back of the grinder is held, the deeper the hollow grind will result. Bracing the grinder allows you to maintain maximum control. Move your whole body to move the wheel, keeping angles consistant. Grind first one side, then the other. Try to make'em match. Try to end the hollow grind in a pleasing way.

Finish with filing/sanding by hand, of course.

I use a 4.5" machine for my hollow-grinding needs. Smaller wheels would produce a deeper hollow.

Here's a resulting grind:



J

 

[bikerdoc]

Thanks J .

 

[KenWP]

Far as I can see any idea is a good idea. Make the knife the way you want and learn from it. I would bet if you make a knife and its the hard way you will figure out a different method for the next one and so on untill you have a system that works for you. I tend to read a lot before I start any project.

 

[Mokwepa]

Ive read that some guys silver solder the blade to the gaurd to hide the join. Can some one explain how this is done? Does it not mess up the tempering and heat treatment, i presume this is done after heat treatment?

Could i not treat and finish the knife, then carefully heat the join and dab a bit of regular solder in there to fill the space? Will it stick and close the slightly rough join?

 

[7X57chilmau]

Solder, be it silver or plain old lead/tin, will fill a joint. Both will stick to steel, provided the steel is VERY clean and VERY well fluxed.

The heat would be applied to the tang/guard, and the blade clamped in a vice as a heat sink. Lead solder works at quite low temperatures, and little effect on the HT would result from proper lead soldering. Using higher temp solders (silver) would result in some softening in the immediate area of the guard, but this typically is not an area where full hardness is required.... I generally temper my tangs and blade spines (especially near the guard) at about 550F, blue/purple. Any solder that melts below this point could be used without softening the area significantly.

This would be a good application for a good hot torch, so the joint can be accomplished before the heat travels far into the blade.

Lead solder will darken to a very dull grey in time. Silver solder will stay bright unless it is tarnished. So will leadless plumbing solders stay bright, to a degree.

Do make the joint fit as well as possible. Solder joints are weak if the solder layer is thick. Thinner is stronger (just like any glue joint).

Use more flux than you think you'll need. Heat the joint, not the solder.

J

 

[7X57chilmau]

You can close a joint up by forging the hot guard onto a cold tang too.... Or by making the hole in the guard undersize, and driving the tang thru it to get the final fit....

J

 

[Mokwepa]

Thanks 7x57

Thats exactly what i wanted to know.

This forum is truly great and has greatly enhanced my ability to further my hobies. Thanks to all that keep my new found hobby alive.

You can close a joint up by forging the hot guard onto a cold tang too.... Or by making the hole in the guard undersize, and driving the tang thru it to get the final fit....

Im sure ive asked before but cannot remember, I tried this before and the gaurd stuck solid to the blade(primitive fighter). Wedging the red hot gaurd to the blade, will this not effect HT or would i do this first and then HT the gaurd and blade in one shot?

Is it OK the straighten a very slightly bent tang when the blade is cold if it has been properly anneald?

Once again, thanks for the help.

Im off home so will chat tomorrow, want to do the pinning and HT tomorrow if i can. Decided to only put a pic up when im finished, man, im even surprizing my self with this blade, Im very very pleased so far.

 

[7X57chilmau]

If I were "forge fitting" the guard to the tang, I'd plan to HT the blade afterwards. If the tang were tapered a bit, the guard could still be removed after fitting.

I've straightened tangs on knives after HT by heating with a propane torch and tapping back to straight. Only if the bend is more than about 1/4 of the tang's lenght back from the blade. Hardness is not terribly relevant in the back portion of the tang. In fact, most knife makers leave the tang dead soft - the tang is the last place one wants a brittle fracture.

J

 

[Mokwepa]

Makes sense.

I plan on doing the same with the bowie. Dont want it to break. How should i temper the blade(colour)? I want a good edge but i plan on using this one so it'll have to be durable. I thought yellow on the cutting edge, brown on the tip and temper through to normal colour on the tang, does this sound right? Going to HT this afternoon then assemble tomorrow.

 

[7X57chilmau]

Yeah, I'd probably go for somewhere between straw and full yellow for the edge (with the lightest yellow in the "belly", the curve to the tip where most cutting is done, while trying to get the spine and tip to at least a brown, and the tang to blue at least.... Feel free to cook the rear of the tang to full soft.....

That's pretty close to how I try to temper most of my larger blades.... I've used my dagger for splitting 2x4's and stabbing malicious car doors.... It's hard enough to keep a "fighting" edge and tough enough not to chip out when twisted while embedded in sheet metal....

J

 

[Mokwepa]

stabbing malicious car doors

Ilike it allot

Dont know what im going to do with mine, just this morning, me and one of my guides had to slice and dice a dead wildebeest to encourage the scavengers to come clean it up. Would have been fun if the bowie was done.

 

[Mokwepa]

Yey, the final day

Almost done with the Bowie. I will definately have a pic of the finished knife by the end of today.

 

[messerist]

I can't believe how lazy scavengers are becoming. When I was stationed in California a very large basking shark had washed up on the beach. It laid there for days with an occasional seagull poking at its mass. Well finally the residents of Carmel started complaining about the pleasant odor wafting up from the shark so they brought in a demolitions company and they blew the shark up! After the sand had settled you couldn't see the beach for all the seagulls and other scavengers feasting! They just needed someone to come in and cut up their steak for them. Let's get some pictures posted!!!

 

[Mokwepa]

Sorry man, Vultures are finishing it as i write this.

Epoxy is busy drying now(30 min left) then ill get a pic up.
Think i got over enthusiastic with the tempering. tip, spine and tang are blue and the cutting edge is brown/straw colour. Hope i havent skrewed it up but i figure that this blade will be used for more heavy duty stuff so slightly softer should be better, do you agree?

 

[7X57chilmau]

Sounds like a temper somewhere between a hard-use knife and a short sword.... I'll bet it'll be serviceable, though the edge will wear somewhat quickly at the tip. Yellow to brown for the bulk of the edge is just fine.

A sword would typically be tempered to a brown-purple for the cutting edges, FWIW.

Ain't gonna be a shaver, but if all went well, you should be able to beat on it like a kukri, one of the world's hardest working (and fighting) knives....

Back on Page 1, have a look at the heavily curved fighting knife.... Notice the glint of brown/purple on the blade... A similar temper, I believe...

J

 

[Mokwepa]

Well here it is, finally done except for the final sharpening.
I am O, so happy with my new knife.

Decided to keep the case hardend colour instead of polishing, I think it looks beautifull.

Dimensions: Length = 33 cm (OAL)
Blade = 21.5cm
Blade thickness = 6mm
3 x welding rod pins
Rhodesian Teak handle

Let me know what you think.

 

[7X57chilmau]

That looks pretty good! Very clean looking furniture!

I'd hate to have to maintain that recurved edge, though.... But I prefer sharpening with flat stones, myself.

How does it balance? Can we get some shots of the other side, and maybe some close-ups of the handle and guard work?

You've come a long way in these 9 pages. Sure looks like you're having fun!

J

 

[hso]

Great work!

Your ricasso is a little small and you have just a little gap between the guard and the ricasso, but those aren't uncommon for folks that have a lot more experience than you do. Work on getting a better plunge for your bevel. The multiple hammer marks aren't what you want to see and indicate you need to improve your hammer control. That's something a smith will chew your tail about. Good job.

You're going to find that the rough surface of the steel may become a real problem for promoting rust. Keep an eye on it.

I agree that the bend in the blade looks like a bend and not a recurve. I agree that it will prove annoying to deal with.

 

[Mokwepa]

Luckily I prefer to sharpen my blades with a diamond stick and prefer free hand so the curve wont be a problem. I have got access to a mini belt sander designed for sharpening knives and have sharpend this blade (before HT) with it and it seems to work just fine.

Those marks on the blade are not hammer blows(except for the area close to the gaurd), it seems to be from carbon build up and then with hammering, creates these dents where the carbon was.

The knife is very blade heavy, next time ill do a nice heavy butt cap.

Please remember that this is the third (3) knife that i have ever built from scratch. Im very happy and think that this bowie is a huge improvement from my other two. I do realise that i have lots to learn. They can only get better with practice.

Ill try get some close ups.