Justin
Moderator Emeritus
How can you say that? I even backed my argument up with video! 
Another slant on the AK/AR argument.
- Thread starter rizbunk77
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" the cheapest AK will definitely outperform the cheapest AR".. That sums up some of what I was trying to say. Good post and good point.
The AR platform is suffering from the design of the rifle as well as the execution of that design due to varying materials and build quality. They need to figure some **** out. If M4 feedramps are better, use them on ALL the rifles. If polymer mags are better than aluminum use the damn polymer, etc. BTW you damn sure need a chromed chamber and bore on an AR, period. There are thousands of them out there without. I feel the foreign made AK on the other hand has much less variation on the materials and execution of its basic design. I feel that is why it is more apt to run out of ammo rather than excuses.
I have always felt that any rifle needs a goddamn bolt handle you can persuade with you heel or something (when) it jams. If it needs a forward assist I aint goin with it man.
The AR platform is suffering from the design of the rifle as well as the execution of that design due to varying materials and build quality. They need to figure some **** out. If M4 feedramps are better, use them on ALL the rifles. If polymer mags are better than aluminum use the damn polymer, etc. BTW you damn sure need a chromed chamber and bore on an AR, period. There are thousands of them out there without. I feel the foreign made AK on the other hand has much less variation on the materials and execution of its basic design. I feel that is why it is more apt to run out of ammo rather than excuses.
I have always felt that any rifle needs a goddamn bolt handle you can persuade with you heel or something (when) it jams. If it needs a forward assist I aint goin with it man.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
I've used a forward assist on AR-pattern rifles all of maybe three times. My 3Gun rifle doesn't even have one.
Not really. Russian scopes are generally made to mount on a side rail and give you zero choice on their placement, (which is awful BTW). Almost all other scopes from the cheapest NC Star to the top of the line Schmidt & Bender are made to be mounted with the rings of your choice and your mounting location is only limited by clearances and eye relief.
I will concede that the AK responds better to bootheel therapy. If you will be beating your gun with a 2x4, please make it an AK.
And for all those terribly frustrated AR owners out there, I have a limited time offer. Send my FFL your sad, tired, ugly marginally functional AR (with worthless mags and ineffective ammo) and I will send you $100 to spend on Novosibirsk Low Voltage Equipment Company's finest ammo for the object of your affection.
Act now. Operators are standing by.
And for all those terribly frustrated AR owners out there, I have a limited time offer. Send my FFL your sad, tired, ugly marginally functional AR (with worthless mags and ineffective ammo) and I will send you $100 to spend on Novosibirsk Low Voltage Equipment Company's finest ammo for the object of your affection.
Act now. Operators are standing by.
True-- I cannot remember ever using the forward assist on my A2 for a reason that it was needed. I always tapped it on the range in our rapid fire strings, but not becasue it was needed, but theoretically if you had a jam or a ftf and a range observer didn't see you do it, you got no alibi for a refire-- any issue I ever had was from some crap worn out mag or ammo issues...never from the bolt not being seated all the way. I kept my rifle clean, and even during qual weeks I still gave the rifle a decent wipe down and ran a patch down the bore aafter firing days..
I love the AK, but I love the AR too-- reliability? I never had an issue with mine. Even in Iraq, Somalia, jungles, desert, snow, or whatever, I never had an issue with my A2 though. I think the only thing ever done to my rifle in the 4 years I carried it was I broke a firing pin once, and my ejection port cover spring broke-- I coached and taught hundreds of recruits on Edson Range, and by far-- probably 99% of all recruit rifle worked without issues. The AR is a great platform. Piston version s may be better, but the DI works great if maintained..which growing up with firearms, I had no issue performing. AKs are great, but the reliablity issue is lost on me due to the fact that I clean my AK the same way I would my AR...
Does someone have that gif of the guy beating the dead horse? I mean really, yet another AR vs AK thread. Nothing, nothing said in these threads, at least in recent memory, is of any use and more often than not it is the same things repeated over and over again. Both camps are firmly entrenched with no signs of yielding ground. The AR fanboys are convinced that the AR is God's gift to man. Unless you ask an AK fanboy. In which case some Russian tank driver is god. Get over it fellas. We all know the FAL is king.
Jorg Nysgerrig
Member
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- Apr 13, 2006
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One thing I find more bizarre than the sheer number of people who measure their self-worth by the objects they own or covet is the fervent devotion they show in not only defending their chosen object as though the foibles of their fetish somehow are held against them personally, but to vehemently proselytize to and denigrate those who merely opted to possess a different object or not to possess such an object at all. It is even more strange when the person in question did no more than merely exchange a few dollars for said object, contributing nothing to it's conception, design, or manufacture, but somehow feeling a sense of achievement through a simple act of consumerism. I can understand the sense of pride associated with, as well as the corresponding impassioned response to criticism of, something one has had a personal stake in creating but to throw down one's gauntlet over mass-produced consumer goods as though one's honor was somehow tied to not only the purchase of a particularly good, but the failure to purchase the same good by other people, seems a bit odd.
" the cheapest AK will definitely outperform the cheapest AR".. That sums up some of what I was trying to say. Good post and good point.
The AR platform is suffering from the design of the rifle as well as the execution of that design due to varying materials and build quality. They need to figure some **** out. If M4 feedramps are better, use them on ALL the rifles. If polymer mags are better than aluminum use the damn polymer, etc. BTW you damn sure need a chromed chamber and bore on an AR, period. There are thousands of them out there without. I feel the foreign made AK on the other hand has much less variation on the materials and execution of its basic design. I feel that is why it is more apt to run out of ammo rather than excuses.
I have always felt that any rifle needs a goddamn bolt handle you can persuade with you heel or something (when) it jams. If it needs a forward assist I aint goin with it man.
That's opinion. It's arguable at every point, and wrong on most of them.
The M4 feed ramps were designed for the M4. They were never necessary on the M16 series simply because the longer barrels lowered the cyclic rate and the rounds didn't have a problem feeding. With the shorter barrel and harsher cyclic rate of the M4, it became a problem, and the ramps cured it.
If anything, this one point alone reveals a lot about understanding the dynamics of the platform.
The US government decides what magazine it wants to use, not you. Aluminum mags in good shape don't jam. Bad magazines sold as surplus, or sold because the owner knows they are, confuse the entire issue. Shooters on just about every firearms forums talk about selling their bad magazines - and shooters complain about them. What comes around goes around.
You DON'T NEED a chrome barrel on a AR15, it's milspec only to reduce corrosion for FULL AUTOMATIC FIRE. Lots of competitive shooters and hunters buy high quality barrels that aren't chrome, and their trophies are evidence it works quite well. If anything, the subject matter experts on forums are unanimous that the average shooter won't ever see the need for chrome lining, and in fact, it creates an issue with making a precision barrel - which is why most long distance AR shooters refuse chrome.
Arguing that every rifle needs control over the bolt and then faulting the AR for the forward assist is just clueless. Which way is it going to be?
This IS a classic AK vs. AR thread. As a rule I find AK owners seem to fit the demographic profile Kalashnikov had in mind designing the rifle, and the pro - AK posting here fits to a T.
The AR platform is suffering from the design of the rifle as well as the execution of that design due to varying materials and build quality. They need to figure some **** out. If M4 feedramps are better, use them on ALL the rifles. If polymer mags are better than aluminum use the damn polymer, etc. BTW you damn sure need a chromed chamber and bore on an AR, period. There are thousands of them out there without. I feel the foreign made AK on the other hand has much less variation on the materials and execution of its basic design. I feel that is why it is more apt to run out of ammo rather than excuses.
I have always felt that any rifle needs a goddamn bolt handle you can persuade with you heel or something (when) it jams. If it needs a forward assist I aint goin with it man.
That's opinion. It's arguable at every point, and wrong on most of them.
The M4 feed ramps were designed for the M4. They were never necessary on the M16 series simply because the longer barrels lowered the cyclic rate and the rounds didn't have a problem feeding. With the shorter barrel and harsher cyclic rate of the M4, it became a problem, and the ramps cured it.
If anything, this one point alone reveals a lot about understanding the dynamics of the platform.
The US government decides what magazine it wants to use, not you. Aluminum mags in good shape don't jam. Bad magazines sold as surplus, or sold because the owner knows they are, confuse the entire issue. Shooters on just about every firearms forums talk about selling their bad magazines - and shooters complain about them. What comes around goes around.
You DON'T NEED a chrome barrel on a AR15, it's milspec only to reduce corrosion for FULL AUTOMATIC FIRE. Lots of competitive shooters and hunters buy high quality barrels that aren't chrome, and their trophies are evidence it works quite well. If anything, the subject matter experts on forums are unanimous that the average shooter won't ever see the need for chrome lining, and in fact, it creates an issue with making a precision barrel - which is why most long distance AR shooters refuse chrome.
Arguing that every rifle needs control over the bolt and then faulting the AR for the forward assist is just clueless. Which way is it going to be?
This IS a classic AK vs. AR thread. As a rule I find AK owners seem to fit the demographic profile Kalashnikov had in mind designing the rifle, and the pro - AK posting here fits to a T.
The_Pretender
Member
This.
Last edited:
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
More than enough emotion for one thread...
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