AR-15 or Kel-tech sub 2000 to fill semi-auto need?

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Theohazard said:
The .223 round is ballistically better than the 9mm round in every way. But 9mm might be more convenient for you to shoot depending on the range you go to. Also, the Kel-Tec is a fun little rifle. However, a well-built AR will be more reliable and durable than a Sub 2K most of the time.

But I wouldn’t consider the DPMS Oracle to be a well-built AR. It’s very inexpensive, but remember that you often get what you pay for. This is the case with the Oracle: It’s a low-end AR that’s not assembled correctly and uses low-end parts.

With casual usage the rifle might not cause problems, but over time (or with hard use) you’re more likely to see problems than you would with a higher-end rifle.

Here’s an article where an armorer took apart an Oracle and analyzed the parts and how they were assembled:

https://primaryandsecondary.com/autopsy-of-a-rifle-dpms-oracle-5-56-mm/
Click to expand...

well, thank you for the "Autopsy", it was very enlightening! it looks like i wont be getting an Oracle, not solid enough. i may not be getting an AR now as it would literally take me forever with my financials to save enough for a decent AR, im guessing starting at around double or so my original $500 limit.... and after seeing 2 out of the videos ive seen regarding the Kel-Tech, it seems the rear sight is cheap platic and you have to really cram your face into the stock/action to get on sites and as you fire it it feels like your getting thumped in the face.

also, i know people like the Hipoint, but i just cant bring myself to buy one..... how terribly embarrassing it would be for a burglar to be shot with one of those?? i just couldnt do that to somebody... even if theyre askin for it.... :rofl:
 
You certainly do not need to wait to buy a $1000 AR. I know lots of people with cheaper AR’s that work perfectly fine such as the Smith M&P sport. People give great reviews on the palmetto state armory guns as well.
 
For what it’s worth I just read the article about the dpms above and I see a bunch of nitpicking about things that could be a problem but nothing that actually was.

If all of us had our standards so high that we would only buy new Porsche’s, a lot less people would have cars.
 
I will buck the trend of this thread and say go with the pistol caliber carbine first. I have been looking at the Sub 2000 for a long time but haven't jumped yet. Now that Ruger is starting to ship their PC takedown 9mm carbine I am glad I held off on the Sub 2000. I will be purchasing a Ruger PC carbine when they hit the shelves at my local gun store (I do want to hold one before buying one... but I think it is exactly what I have been waiting for). One feature that really sold me on the Ruger PC carbine is the supposed ability to use 10/22 after market triggerss in them (I even have an extra Volquertson trigger lying around).

For me 9mm ammo is considerably cheaper than .223 so a 9mm carbine will be shot considerably more than a semi auto .223.

Like you I have a nice bolt action Rem 700 target in .223 (and one in .308) if I want to really reach out and touch something.
 
The PSA I recommended comes from solid recommendations I’ve read from people I trust. In fact, I ordered the complete lower yesterday night. Would have gotten the upper but I’m looking for a lighter weight build for the gf. I would not feel one bit undergunned with that set-up.

I also happened into my ffl today and right there in the rack was a Sub2000. Looked cheap. Felt cheap. Wanted to (and can afford to) buy it, but passed. I can honestly say nothing like that would ever replace an AR for me.
 
borrowedtime69 said:
well, thank you for the "Autopsy", it was very enlightening! it looks like i wont be getting an Oracle, not solid enough. i may not be getting an AR now as it would literally take me forever with my financials to save enough for a decent AR, im guessing starting at around double or so my original $500 limit....
Click to expand...

You can get an AR "pistol" for right around your $500 from PSA. I have had no problems with 5.56mm ARs from PSA- I have an 11" DSA upper that I ran on a PSA pistol lower. No problems, and as I said, I like it much more than I expected.

John
 
Skylerbone said:
The PSA I recommended comes from solid recommendations I’ve read from people I trust. In fact, I ordered the complete lower yesterday night. Would have gotten the upper but I’m looking for a lighter weight build for the gf. I would not feel one bit undergunned with that set-up.

I also happened into my ffl today and right there in the rack was a Sub2000. Looked cheap. Felt cheap. Wanted to (and can afford to) buy it, but passed. I can honestly say nothing like that would ever replace an AR for me.
Click to expand...

If you want lightweight consider swapping out the stock for an Ace Skeleton. They’re not very expensive and they’re very nice for a light weight stock.
 
I suggest you fire an AR pistol before you commit. Shooting .223 out of a short barrel is not like shooting 9mm out of a 16" barrel, at least in terms of muzzle flash, noise, etc. I can't imagine touching one off inside a house for self-defense. For just goofing around at the range, of course, get whatever floats your boat. But I like the fact that the Kel Tec folds and fits inside a laptop bag, and can be readied to fire in just a few seconds. To me, that is worth something.

Yes, I know - the Kel Tec is not a battle rifle.
 
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