AR muzzle device with the least blast to shooter

[Orion8472]

Pat Riot, I haven't tried it without the Smith Vortex. Having said that, I'd want something that actually is better than no break. I need all the assistance as I can get....best case scenario....before deciding whether I get rid of it or not.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Walkalong]

Sounds like it is time for a tax stamp and a suppressor.

 

[Orion8472]

Walkalong....I didn't want to jump through the ATF hoops and spend the large amount of money for something like this.

Thanks for the input though.

 

[readyeddy]

True, Skylerbone. Especially in today's climate. ARs are not selling...and when they do, they are not going for much. That's why I was wondering if 20" and a forward blast would be enough of a difference. As I said, the 16" with Smith Vortex is riding just over the line...and if another setup would be less blast for me, I will keep it.

A 20” barrel does have less blast than a 16”. It’s like putting a 4” tube on a 16” barrel to lower pressure and place the sound further away from the shooter plus you get increased velocity.

 

[Skylerbone]

A 20” barrel does have less blast than a 16”. It’s like putting a 4” tube on a 16” barrel to lower pressure and place the sound further away from the shooter plus you get increased velocity.

Whereas a flash forwarding device like the Kaw Valley adds an expansion chamber and front baffle that reduces recoil while directing sound directionally away from the shooter and for far less than the cost of a new barrel.

I work near a switchyard with trains constantly arriving at crossings. Anyone who’s ever been stopped at a crossing knows how unpleasant that whistle is as a train approaches and how much less grating it is after it has passed. If you’ve ever looked at the design or that of a megaphone you’ll understand how the KVP and similar devices work.

Please excuse my iPhone doodles but maybe they’ll help.


Standard diffuser style brake dispersing sound.



Bare muzzle dispersing sound.



Flash forwarding device dispersing sound.



This disperses sound and drops pressure before funneling it away. By definition it’s a single-chamber suppressor but still ATF approved with no stamp.



And one of these actually angles it back toward the shooter.

 

[Orion8472]

I like the drawings. And that's why I was thinking that the forward blast devices might help me out some. Thanks for the input, Skylerbone.

 

[readyeddy]

I have the Kaw Valley on my 16” and it has a lot less blast compared to a brake, but makes little difference compared to the bird cage flash hider. Honestly it’s like a 2 inch long thread protector. It does help some, and there are YouTube videos that measure the reduction in decibels for the shooter so you can judge for yourself if it’s worth a try.

But my 20” with bird cage has noticeably less blast for the shooter and those around. The 4 extra inches makes a noticeable difference.

 

[Orion8472]

readyeddy, I found your results to be very interesting. It sounds like the KAW didn't really do much on a 16" barrel. I can see how it would be helpful on a 10", but it almost seams as though the longer the barrel gets, the less "helpful" comps like the KAW will be. So, putting one on the end of a 20" barrel may not make much difference at all. The problem is, I doubt very many have tested a 20" barrel bare and then with something like the KAW.

 

[Skylerbone]

The problem with the noise reduction numbers is they don’t make sense if you aren’t versed in their meaning.

Looking at the below chart, if we take the 3-4db reduction measured in the video, it would be represented by the first line. Now looking at the Actual SPL (Sound Pressure Level) reduction you’ll see that pressure has been cut in half while the ear’s “perceived” reduction is less than 20%. It is not until you get to a 10db rating that your ears tell you sound is half as loud.

Years of research has told acousticians that most people notice an up or down tic in noise with a 3db change. The numbers may seem minuscule but they are significant. And, because of the direction the sound wave is traveling, the noise emitted is less objectionable. Think about that train horn again; waaaaaaaaa...oooooooooh. I don’t sell these things for a living, just a casual user, and I’ve already had club members remark at the lack of side blast they get from my pistol.

 

[readyeddy]

I would try the Kaw with 20”. The Kaw does reduce the decibels to the shooter like the video shows by about 3 decibels.

I believe your goal is to reduce blast as much as possible without using a suppressor. The best way is to combine as many factors as you can to incrementally accumulate the reduction. So combine the longer barrel with some kind of muzzle device like a Kaw or Flaming Pig. Added up together you should get the best results possible.

 

[Orion8472]

Sounds like the best way to go, readyeddy, if I want to keep this rifle.

 

[Walkalong]

Sounds like the best way to go, readyeddy, if I want to keep this rifle.

Yes it does, if you are unwilling to go the suppressor route. A long barrel and a muzzle device to throw sound forward.

I will add to this to shoot in wide open spaces where the sound doesn't bounce right back at you. This can make a huge difference. In my Marlin 39a in an open field with .22 shorts all I can hear is the hammer falling. Well, when I could hear anyway.

 

[Orion8472]

Walkalong,...that really is an issue [where I shoot]. The only place to shoot is at a conservation range with wooden walls. A lot of bouncing around there, I'm sure. I would love to be able to shoot out in the open, but I just don't have that ability....sadly.

 

[Skylerbone]

The only place to shoot is at a conservation range with wooden walls.

If you can sew, even if you can’t, there’s hope here. Beyond high priced acoustical treatments there is the lowly common foam. Now I’m talkin the mattress memory, old couch type, not Barbasol. A trip down a few alleys on big junk pick up day, a trip to Joann Fabrics, or an Amazon click to buy a few outdoor furniture pads can really help mitigate sound off of those barrier walls.

Cover the foam in denim or canvas (or a painter’s drop cloth), add a grommet to hang them by, bring a cordless drill and a few screws, and you’ll be in business. Just remember to take them with you when you leave. I don’t know when you last house hunted and found a vacant place but if you ever have you’ll remember all that echo before carpet and furnishings absorbed those sound waves. There you go, carpet remnants.

 

[Orion8472]

Skylerbone, that would be helpful, but I don't think they would let me put something like that up. Nice suggestion, though.

 

[Skylerbone]

You could always build a few stands that come apart easily or ask the RO if they might accommodate a person with a “disability”, be sure to use that word. I wish you luck in your quest to continue shooting.

Edited to qualify my post: It was not my intention to imply you are disabled, merely that using that word might give significance to your situation and be better received by the RO. Hearing sensitivity is indeed a real issue facing many people and I hope they will accommodate you.

 

[Orion8472]

Perhaps. Thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[Orion8472]

Another question as per brands of "blast forward devices". Which would you think would do a better job?

1. Midwest Industry Blast Diverter.
2. KAW KVP Magnum 3.25".

Or will there really not be much of a difference?

 

[Varminterror]

Another question as per brands of "blast forward devices". Which would you think would do a better job?

1. Midwest Industry Blast Diverter.
2. KAW KVP Magnum 3.25".

Or will there really not be much of a difference?

KVP magnum of the two. It’s the larger chamber, letting down the expanding gas volume more gently than the MWI Blast Diverter.

 

[Orion8472]

I can see how that would help. Would it be a noticeable difference between the two? I purchased the MWI Blast diverter and I think it did help a little over a bare muzzle...but if I can get even more diversion, that would be better [of course].

 

[Doc7]

I have heard the AFAB is good for this.

 

[Orion8472]

I don't know what the "AFAB" is. Can you elaborate, please?

 

[Skylerbone]

https://precisionarmament.com/product/afab-flash-hider-compensator/

Im still with Varminterror who first suggested the Kaw Valley to me.

 

[Varminterror]

The problem is, I doubt very many have tested a 20" barrel bare and then with something like the KAW.

Been there, done that. Still lots of pressure to be let down when venting from a 20” AR.

 

[Orion8472]

I'm thinking I might just hang up the idea of the AR. With the MWI on the end it was still too loud, and since any good suppressor is a song and dance with the government, after giving them $200, then ~$500-800, it is just too pricey to go that way. If the KAW isn't significantly better then it is a waste of money.