GBExpat
Member
Sounds to me like it all depends upon whose definition of "responsible gun owner" you depend.... Spending thousands of dollars a year on training courses is now apparently expected in order to be a responsible gun owner. ...
Sounds to me like it all depends upon whose definition of "responsible gun owner" you depend.... Spending thousands of dollars a year on training courses is now apparently expected in order to be a responsible gun owner. ...
The Armed Citizen columns are not in-depth articles thus we do not know if there was a opportunity for the de-escalation component thus the willingness to be combative applies.And the willingness to de-escalate, avoid physical conflict, etc., are paramount as well... rarely the subject of Armed Citizen columns, but quite critical to minimizing your chance of becoming the latest poster boy of "good guys with guns until they aren't."
The fact that some misguided people push for mandatory training doesn't make voluntary training or having the opinion that voluntary training is a good idea, a bad idea. There are plenty of things that people can and should have the right to do or not do that are bad ideas. Everything from eating at fast food restaurants to smoking to carrying a gun without decent training. All things that free people should have the right to do and all bad choices that responsible people should not make (habitually, at least). The whole not being able to afford it thing is really misguided. I've heard or read many gun owners saying that they "can't afford" training, and yet they own more than one handgun and more than one rifle, in many cases multiples of each. The OP owns at least 7 handguns. He can afford training, he's just prioritized owning handguns over professional instruction in how to use them.I think you all are focusing on the wrong aspect of the OP s post.
We can debate all day about the value of training but I think what the OP was bristling against was the attitude of people who are supposed to be 2a supporters that gun owners who don’t train to this higher level are “dangerous “ or unprepared.
This is a line of reasoning Antis use to justify laws requiring permits and training and cost for firearms ownership.
2a is for everyone, not just those who can afford it
Same here, then segued into a law enforcement second career providing me with even more worthwhile training opportunities -- but I confirm that there are any number of guys out there who were way more high speed than me who went into the firearms training field but that doesn't always make them great instructors.I got my training for free. It did require a short haircut and a short swearing-in ceremony, and a few other things. Now, many of the guys I worked with are making good $ sharing their knowledge with others. Some of these fellows providing this training are spot-on, and some are charlatans, riding on their credentials.
Quoted as worth reading over.The fact that some misguided people push for mandatory training doesn't make voluntary training or having the opinion that voluntary training is a good idea, a bad idea. There are plenty of things that people can and should have the right to do or not do that are bad ideas. Everything from eating at fast food restaurants to smoking to carrying a gun without decent training. All things that free people should have the right to do and all bad choices that responsible people should not make (habitually, at least).
I did.Please read the post to which I was responding.
Trey Veston asked:
Are gun combat courses becoming expected?
"the internet firearms community".By whom?
How could you possibly know that?Of course. That doesn't describe the majority of gun owners though.
Again, how can you possibly know that?If a person can afford to pay for a TV and cable, or more than one handgun, or an ATV, or a newer car, or a riding lawn mower, or beer, or eating at a restaurant, etc. etc. then they can afford to get at least some decent training. If the money isn't there, it isn't there, but that only realistically applies to a very small number of people.
I know that because the majority of gun owners have things and pay for things that they don't need. This thread is about people not being able to "afford" to get professional firearms training. The fact is, most people can "afford" it, they just don't want to because they consider other things to be more important.How could you possibly know that?
Gunsite specifically? No. As I said before in this thread, Gunsite is one of the most expensive training options available. Am I saying that they should give up TV and dining out in order to get professional firearms training? Yes, absolutely. I'll say it once again, for the vast majority of people, this comes down to what is a priority to them.Are you saying that people should give up TV and an occasional dinner at a restaurant in order to go to Gunsite?
You must have missed my post earlier. I have never had a job where I had payed sick days or vacation days. Every day that I don't work means that I don't have money coming in. I have never, in my entire life, been payed for a day that I wasn't actually working. I didn't skip anything.Of course you managed to skip the fact that those of us working contract jobs frequently have neither vacation nor even sick days.
Yes, I am suggesting that because it's exactly what I do. I work in the most dangerous industry in North America and I literally live check to check for most of the year. I save money when I can get it and I attend training because it's a priority to me.You're not just suggesting that people working insecure jobs for relatively low pay should divert all of what little discretionary income they have to attend training, but that they should take unpaid days off to do it.
Not at all man. It hit me just as hard as anybody else. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but again, it's all about priorities. People will put money and time towards whatever is truly important to them. Most people could simply give up cable TV for a year and they'd have enough for a good weekend training class.It's apparent to me that you have a VERY unrealistic impression of what the last eight years of the economy have been like for a LOT of people.
It's already here in Washington State. Starting in July, to buy any pistol or semi-automatic rifle, you have pay an additional $25 fee, get an approval letter from the local chief of police, and show proof that you have attended an approved firearms safety course within the past 5 years.What we as gun owners should not want to happen is for this training to be seen as necessary and then required. That's bypassing the slippery slope and jumping right into the fire.
That alone shows just how far out of touch with most people's reality you are.Most people could simply give up cable TV for a year and they'd have enough for a good weekend training class.
It is all about priorities just as you say. I think folks who put advanced training behind everyday comfort are doing it right.I know that because the majority of gun owners have things and pay for things that they don't need. This thread is about people not being able to "afford" to get professional firearms training. The fact is, most people can "afford" it, they just don't want to because they consider other things to be more important. Gunsite specifically? No. As I said before in this thread, Gunsite is one of the most expensive training options available. Am I saying that they should give up TV and dining out in order to get professional firearms training? Yes, absolutely. I'll say it once again, for the vast majority of people, this comes down to what is a priority to them. You must have missed my post earlier. I have never had a job where I had payed sick days or vacation days. Every day that I don't work means that I don't have money coming in. I have never, in my entire life, been payed for a day that I wasn't actually working. I didn't skip anything. Yes, I am suggesting that because it's exactly what I do. I work in the most dangerous industry in North America and I literally live check to check for most of the year. I save money when I can get it and I attend training because it's a priority to me. Not at all man. It hit me just as hard as anybody else. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but again, it's all about priorities. People will put money and time towards whatever is truly important to them. Most people could simply give up cable TV for a year and they'd have enough for a good weekend training class.
Right, but as I said above, you can attend Front Sight, another high quality school, for essentially zero if you know someone who is a “member”. If you register on their site, you will be inundated with offers for low cost membership. I bet you could place a WTB inquiry in the marketplace here on THR and find someone who would sell you a 4-day class attendance pass for $100 or so. They are floating around like mosquitoes on the bayou in summer.BTW, people keep mentioning Gunsite and using that as the gold standard of high priced courses (even though others have continually pushed local courses for the most part).
I haven't looked up their tuition costs in awhile so I didn't know what it is currently. $1750 for 5 days.
https://www.gunsite.com/classes/250-defensive-pistol-class/
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Sure. I was just listing what Gunsite actually costs in tuition so people actually know instead of making stuff up.Right, but as I said above, you can attend Front Sight, another high quality school, for essentially zero if you know someone who is a “member”. If you register on their site, you will be inundated with offers for low cost membership. I bet you could place a WTB inquiry in the marketplace here on THR and find someone who would sell you a 4-day class attendance pass for $100 or so. They are floating around like mosquitoes on the bayou in summer.
I love how the dollar amount keeps going up so people can have their excuse to not do anything. $2000, then $2500. What next? $3000? Do I have $4000?
Posters have already listed local options that they've taken for $200 to $500 for classes. Not much need to pay for airfare and lodging for 5 days as well as tuition and ammo half a continent away when you likely have multiple options within an hour drive from your house and it costs less than what you might spend at a steakhouse or for a medium priced pistol and you have several of them. Some people have a dozen pistols and no training. That's like stocking up on pianos and not being able to play.
If someone doesn't want to take a training course because they think that they can do alright with watching YouTube videos or with just owning a gun period and maybe the manual that came with their pistol just say that.
YouTube videos can't interact with you though. They can't correct bad habits or interact with you as a person or as a shooter.
I mean if you're eating top ramen and hating it and you're barely scraping by, that's one thing. I'm betting that's not the case for most of the posters here. They can afford it, they just don't want to. That's fine, whatever. Just stand on that position. Don't keep raising the dollar amount artificially and try to pretend that only the rich and famous can get training.