ATF declares a 14 inch shoe string a machinegun

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Yup sounds about right. You can't get around automatic weapon restrictions by putting a normal gun into a mechanism that will pull the trigger for you with one pull on your end. In effect all you've done is created a machine gun that encorporates an otherwise legal weapon. In this case the additional mechanism is a length of string and a keychain ring.

Since it is perfectly legal to own a length of string and a keychain ring, the likelihood of them coming down on you is slim. Unless of course someone actually sees you shooting the gun like that, then you're probably screwed.
 
Holy Crap! I am scared now!!!

I have the TAC trigger from Hellfire, and it adds a second,"auxillary trigger" to the firearm:uhoh: , and will burp off a burst if installed correctly to the trigger guard...But it came with a copy of an ATF ruling that said it was completely legal...Now I am,"confused", as adding a second external trigger should not constitute,'making" an NFA weapon...Especially since you have performed no modification to the receiver(as alluded to by the hole drilling post), or changed the function of the primary trigger, sear relationship...As said before, one pull of the trigger gets you one shot...

PS- I think you guys will like this...Doesn't the ATF have to allow for an amnesty now, or a chance to comply with the law, since it has just declared(like in '86), that a previously innocuous, and ubiquitous item(said shoe string, and keyring, just like the DIAS in '86) is now a verboten in conjunction with a semi auto rifle:confused: but :)...

If BATF and the AG don't play ball, then we use this as more ammunition against the unlawful closure to civilliians of the MG registry in some unlucky Joe Blows court case defense:eek:...Either alllow an amnesty as they(BATF/AG) have essentially just added a new MG to the Federally Prohibited Registry, without a chance for Joe Blow, who may be in blissfull uninformed violation of newly interpreted Federal Law(again like in '86), to comply. I mean there are a lot of shoe strings out there, and a whole lot of keyrings,due process and all that jazz:evil: ...

Too Many Choices!?(and trying to get back afew more)...
 
THis doesnt work.

If the string us constantly pulled the trigger is always back- it will realease the bolt once and will chamber the new round, but the trigger must be relesed to "reset" before it will fire again.

Either that or the recoil of the gun causes the string to slacken in the persons grasp.

Either way, if the trigger (String or no) is constantly pulled or depressed the gun will fire only once.

At least, thats how it is on my mini. Perhaps it was not so with the older versions?
 
Wow! You don't know what you are talkin' 'bout...

If the string is tensioned correctly(theory mind you), it will have slack as the bolt and carrier are moving to the rear, this will in turn allow the hammer to slip off the disconnector and reset the trigger for a second shot...As long as the string is still being pulled backwards(tensioned), on the return trip to battery and after stripping a round, the string will become tensioned against the now reset trigger, by the charging handle closing just as the gun locks up, causing the trigger to become tensioned to the rear firing the firearm again...If the string was made and installed the same, it would work everytime, but this is just my opinion from seeing the pics...

Probably not too much more dangerous than bumpfiring, which has no timing mechanism built in to it, but Fed law makes it a no no:cuss: ...
 
Guess it only works with live ammunition.

But either way the string is not constantly under pressure and the trigger still is released, albiet for a moment thus it ought not be considered a full auto...

So while it may (And probably does) work when you fire it with live ammo, since the bolt allows the string to slakcen for just a second like you say, taint technicly full auto, anymore than bumb firing.
 
How about real threats, like say smuggled fire arms, like a guy could control a M1 going full auto anyway. There are other ways to make weapons automatic, not that I would, or condone that, rather then an ellaborate shoe string.

That's just foolhardy, I think the real problem is with the smuggled guns, and not the people with guns that are law abiding.

Let's put it into perspective, if our law enforcement, not bashing Police officers, they're great, but if our laws were enforced on gun smuggling well enough. We wouldn't have this problem mostly.

The Majority of criminals are repeat crime offenders, any crime committed with a firearm is a felony, and by having a felony you can no longer, possess, use, or own a firearm. This small number of criminals, are making this an issue for all of us, I really think we should be going after criminals. But Yea, that's pretty bad trying to make a fully automatic M-1 with a shoe string.
 
CrossofFire said:
guy could control a M1 But Yea, that's pretty bad trying to make a fully automatic M-1 with a shoe string.
Click to expand...

Isnt it a mini-14? Or the two are more alike in the details than i thought.

And the gun in that pic has the safety off....
 
KriegHund said:
Guess it only works with live ammunition.

But either way the string is not constantly under pressure and the trigger still is released, albiet for a moment thus it ought not be considered a full auto...
Click to expand...

It has been explained to you how this works. You pull the ring (IE trigge), you hold it rewards and the weapon will continue to fire untill you release the ring/trigger. By your definition a machinegun cannot exist if the mechanism stops moving at any time, this would mean that there is no such thing as a machingun. I dont thing machineguns should be regulated any more heavily than a musket, however its important to understand the technical meaning of terms.

Guess it only works with live ammunition.
Click to expand...

It has been my experience that most semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms wont cycle properly without live ammunition.
 
KriegHund said:
Isnt it a mini-14? Or the two are more alike in the details than i thought.

And the gun in that pic has the safety off....
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's definitely a Mini. Note the mag...paddle..thing (release? Catch? I don't know which word is right) and the stock reinforcement screw in 'tween the magwell and the receiver. Also, don't garands have a little hole in the safety?

~GnSx
 
C_Yeager, and KriegHund

You are both wrong. If this was done to specification, it would work with or without live ammo, just like an M4(or other factory MG) set to full auto, or burst, will have the hammer fall when you hold the trigger to the rear and,"hand cycle", the action...This is a defining characteristic of a,"factory" full auto weapon...Even WITHOUT ammo, it WILL DROP the hammer when cycled with the trigger to the rear as the disconnector is disabled ,and the auto sear holds the hammer,"cocked", until the auto sear is forced to release the hammer by the toggle switch on return to battery, which releases the hammer AFTER,"lock up", ...Just like if you hold the trigger back on a semi auto rifle with no ammo, while,'hand cycling", the action, when you release the trigger you will hear an audible ,"pop or click", which is the sound of the disconnector releasing the hammer to the primary sear engagement(trigger face)....

Now this shoestring MG, would be a little different than a,"real" or ,"factory", MG or machined auto sear because it is external and would not work by simply," hand cylcling", the action. It looks like the actual trigger is pulled by the shoestring due to,"bolt thrust", from the return spring because the disconnector on the shoe string MG is intact and operating as normal...

Too Many Choices!?

PS-Now that I think about it, this would be a,"Select Fire Shoestring MG", becasue as I mentioned earlier, the disconnector is not disabled on the rifle, but actually woking properly, it would appear that by pulling the actual trigger even with the STMG attatched, would give you a single shot, then the audible pop of the trigger reset... Damn! Now that's what I call ingenuity, a select fire shoestring...
 
The string pulls the trigger as the bolt carrier or slide
reaches the end of its movement in the "dwell time"
portion AFTER the bolt is locked. IF the string falls
off the slide or bolt handle during recoil, no problem.
The gun won't fire. IF the string loops around the
handle during recoil, it could pull the trigger BEFORE
the bolt is fully locked. One for the Darwin Awards.
 
I think you guys are missing trhe point. It isn't about the safety of the string. It is about teh stupidity of the ATF saying that a string on a gun can make the gun fire full auto and the ATF declareign that the piece of string is a machinegun. Just like saying that an empty hole on an H&K is a machinegun.
 
Carl In Brown, You are wrong...,

The millisecond the disconnectoer holds the hammer back as the carrer rides forward, with slack, allowing,the time for the hammer to re set, and then be pulled by the constant preasure on string as the bolt carrier(which has been moving forward the whole time) finally reaches lock up.
It could go boom but only if yo were a moron...or Murphy....But still illegal.

Too Many Choices!?
 
No Wire Hangers! Ever!!!

A one quarter inch length of coat hanger wire can be used to jam
the disconnector of a common semiauto rifle: is possession of wire
hangers and a wire cutter constructive possession of multiple
machinegun conversion kits?

Back in the good old days, to be a felon you had to do something
difficult like treason, murder, armed robbery, rape, piracy, etc.
Now you can be come a felon just by owning something. Felony
just aint what it used to be.
 
You know there are always two parts to everyone's brain when it comes to things like this. The first part says, "Don't try this at home because it's illegal and dangerous" The second part say

"I GOTTA FIND ME A SPARE SHOESTRING!!!

Good thing the first part is in control. Um, I think. (As I stare at my shoe laces) :rolleyes:
 
You can do this electricly also using a couple of switches and a battery. I hear it works good on a 10/22. Never tried it myself because you have to drill holes in the stock.:banghead: Not too quick to put holes in my gun to use it sparingly if at all. :uhoh: Besides, I have not one but two shostrings holding up my combat boots and the keyring for my hotel room. I may just go and try this....Now where do you find a gun here in Bahrain?
 
well I dont see any law that says a shoe lace or a short peice of coat hanger will will get you in jail but I would expect they catch you firing bursts down range using them you may be in deep dodo.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
You know there are always two parts to everyone's brain when it comes to things like this. The first part says, "Don't try this at home because it's illegal and dangerous" The second part say

"I GOTTA FIND ME A SPARE SHOESTRING!!!

Good thing the first part is in control. Um, I think. (As I stare at my shoe laces) :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Amen.

I'll bet a few people try this next time they go to the range. :eek: :D

-Dev
 
Well.
Just another reason to buy an M1A.

By the way, anyone find the irony in the fact that none of this would have heard of this (probably) if the ATF wasn't spewing on about it?
^.^
I do.
And I love it.
 
Yes, I know this is an old thread. But hear me out, I have something to add.

The other night I was lying in bed on the verge of sleep, when my brain made one of those strange out-of-the-blue connections and an idea came to me:


If a shoestring could be tied around a rifle in such a way as to cause the shoestring to be legally defined as a machinegun, then any string or rope of the proper length and diameter and could probably be used.

Many people like to braid their hair.

If, theoretically, someone had long enough hair, and braided it properly, then threaded it around the action of a rifle such as was done with the shoestring, and could make the rifle fire automatically, would they not become, themselves, an illegal machinegun by the BATFE's own definition?

Wouldn't that mean that their own physical self would become contraband, or if registered by a manufacturer, only transferable to the military and law enforcement agencies? What other legal dilemmas would that create?
 
So, I guess, given the current notions of constructive posession, I will have to throw out all shoes with laces, lest I be found in constructive posession of a machine gun, confiscating them from all household members. I will also require all household members to shave their heads, lest they be tempted to braid their hair.

Then, and only then, will society our be safe.


Phew.
 
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