I am going to be buying a rifle primarily for bear hunting this season. I think i want the weatherby vanguard s2 because of quality for the price. This rifle is available in .300WSM, .300 win mag, or .300 weatherby for the same price. Since i will be shooting alot of 178-200gr bullets i have ruled out the WSM and am trying to decide between the win mag and wby mag. My question is, is the wby mag really worth the added cost of ammo and limited availability really worth the extra 200 or so fps i could excpect? I dont expect to be shooting over 500yds
bear rifle
- Thread starter UcanRun
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1stmarine
Member
Hi,
besides personal preferences there is little reason for getting a magnum or super magnum for bear hunting unless you are going to hunt at longer distances. Even at very respectable ranges you have some popular .308 short and long action that can take care of the bear w/o any problems.
If you have to choose between the below go with the .300 win mag. A classic good performer.
Again the capability to take bear is not so much in the case and bore but in the bullet design and terminal ballistics so given the desired range and other requirements one must consider his/her options.
You have good bear loads in all these cartriges:
Short action.
300 Savage (shorter range but very capable)
308win
7mm.08
260 Remington
338 federal
Long action
30.06
270 winchester
338.06
7mm Remmag
The Weatherby are good quality options but it is a bit more overhead. Personally if I wanted to spend a little more get a 338 lapua or a 338 edge and you have a rifle that can take care of anything walking this planet
even at long ranges.
Like with any magnums the bigger you go the more lbs you need to be accurate (and less pain too) and better get a good brake.
besides personal preferences there is little reason for getting a magnum or super magnum for bear hunting unless you are going to hunt at longer distances. Even at very respectable ranges you have some popular .308 short and long action that can take care of the bear w/o any problems.
If you have to choose between the below go with the .300 win mag. A classic good performer.
Again the capability to take bear is not so much in the case and bore but in the bullet design and terminal ballistics so given the desired range and other requirements one must consider his/her options.
You have good bear loads in all these cartriges:
Short action.
300 Savage (shorter range but very capable)
308win
7mm.08
260 Remington
338 federal
Long action
30.06
270 winchester
338.06
7mm Remmag
The Weatherby are good quality options but it is a bit more overhead. Personally if I wanted to spend a little more get a 338 lapua or a 338 edge and you have a rifle that can take care of anything walking this planet
even at long ranges.
Like with any magnums the bigger you go the more lbs you need to be accurate (and less pain too) and better get a good brake.
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I dont think the WBY has an real world advantage over the WM in a 24" tube. Ive never hunted Bear, likely never will, so i dont have a great understanding of what is needed. From what ive read, and the bullets ive fired from my rifles into game, id say a premium 180 from any med/fast .30 cal would be enough. Like wise any premium load for the rounds 1stmarine listed should work well.
Honestly the .338WM would probably be MY choice, good balistics out of a 24" tube, good bullet selection, good ammo availability, and moderate recoil (i only fired one .338, didnt seem as bad as hot 180s from my .300WM).
Honestly the .338WM would probably be MY choice, good balistics out of a 24" tube, good bullet selection, good ammo availability, and moderate recoil (i only fired one .338, didnt seem as bad as hot 180s from my .300WM).
1stmarine
Member
if you like 308 anything that can launch a Barnes TSX 168gr at decent speed is coming down. Also have 180gr and 150grainers.
Actually any TSX/TTSX in any popular caliber for that matter. They are brutal. Also partitions are bad ass. I feel the 6.5mm is a good cartrige with low recoil and very accurate for almost anything, including moose and bear. Let me put it to you this way. A 6.5mm 140gr bullet vs a 308 168/175gr bullet coming out at the same speed has more energy and flatter trajectory at 300/400 yards already due to the extremely good in flight G1 to G7 ballistics. And before that range has enough energy to take care of business and since it is a milder can be more accurate and therefore careful bullet placement is very possible.
Swedish folks have been doing this for decades.
Actually any TSX/TTSX in any popular caliber for that matter. They are brutal. Also partitions are bad ass. I feel the 6.5mm is a good cartrige with low recoil and very accurate for almost anything, including moose and bear. Let me put it to you this way. A 6.5mm 140gr bullet vs a 308 168/175gr bullet coming out at the same speed has more energy and flatter trajectory at 300/400 yards already due to the extremely good in flight G1 to G7 ballistics. And before that range has enough energy to take care of business and since it is a milder can be more accurate and therefore careful bullet placement is very possible.
Swedish folks have been doing this for decades.
1stmarine
Member
I take black bear and big pigs with my 6x45 from the AR-15.
the ones above I meant for the largest animals.
I am actually working in a couple of new Ar15 uppers for big game. The 30RAR will do fine with a 150gr bullet at
moderate range but I wanted something a tad better. One is a very unique 300 savage and the other is a new
6.5mmBench Rest norma using lapua 6mm BR brass. pictured below next to the 6x45 for VLD mags.
But that is a different story and I do not want to drift from the subject for the OP.
the ones above I meant for the largest animals.
I am actually working in a couple of new Ar15 uppers for big game. The 30RAR will do fine with a 150gr bullet at
moderate range but I wanted something a tad better. One is a very unique 300 savage and the other is a new
6.5mmBench Rest norma using lapua 6mm BR brass. pictured below next to the 6x45 for VLD mags.
But that is a different story and I do not want to drift from the subject for the OP.
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1stmarine
Member
makes sense, 300 winmag is a great time tested round but it kicks hard.
It is a good choice in your scope of options ...just wanted to make clear that terminal performance is not just a factor of horse power alone.
It is a good choice in your scope of options ...just wanted to make clear that terminal performance is not just a factor of horse power alone.
AK_Maine_iac
Member
My Weatherby Vanguard 338 Win Mag with syn. stock has less felt recoil then my Ruger M77 300 Win Mag.
Gunnerboy
Member
what you want is a fine european sxs in 9.3x74r 
300 Wby worth it in reality? I don't think so, but I recently loaded up a bunch for a buddy with 180 gr TSXs. The cost of factory ammo got to be too much for him. I was thinking that handloading was even ridiculous as I dumped those huge powder charges under a permium bullet. However, when I was done and ended up getting sub MOA groups @3200fps I felt invincible and wanted to buy the rifle from him. Sometimes it doen't have to make the most sense to be the most fun.
tahunua001
Member
I own the weatherby vanguard in 300wtby. I don't know how much 300 win mag ammo is but it costs me 2 dollars every time I squeeze the trigger. I will say though that standard soft tip loads will punch through 3/4 in steel plate without issue. I would definitely recommend it for anyone that wants to make sure whatever you are shooting does not get back up.
Silent Sam
Member
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What the Weatherby buys you is range. Not normally an issue hunting bears. I would go up in caliber not necessarily case capacity. If you want to stay with 30 caliber, the WSM can handle 200gr bullets if you reload.
Shadow 7D
Member
Mosin Nagant
been taking bears for over 120 years
been taking bears for over 120 years
Loosedhorse
member
Talk about a great 500 yard sheep or goat gun! Or open-plain antelope gun.
For bear in woods, not so great. For most black bear, the .30 you need is .30-30 or .308.
My thoughts, for what it is worth. If you are dead set on the Weatherby, then I'd go 300 win mag if I didn't reload, 300 Weatherby if I did. By reloading you can reduce the costs of the Weatherby, and always download when the extra power is not needed.
My personal prefernce is the 300 WSM, but not in that rifle. The WSM will basically equal the 300 win mag in performance, but do it in smaller, lighter rifles, with shorter barrels and with less recoil. The Weatherby is a very heavy gun and comes with 26" barrels in magnum chamberings. That would negate the 300 WSM best points, so in that rifle I'd go with one of the others.
My personal prefernce is the 300 WSM, but not in that rifle. The WSM will basically equal the 300 win mag in performance, but do it in smaller, lighter rifles, with shorter barrels and with less recoil. The Weatherby is a very heavy gun and comes with 26" barrels in magnum chamberings. That would negate the 300 WSM best points, so in that rifle I'd go with one of the others.
AK_Maine_iac
Member
As i get older. Wiser or not? All of my belted magnums stay in the gun safe most of the time. Not because of recoil. Mostly the cost of the ammo and or brass etc.
I stick with my poor mans magnum. 35Welen or 45-70 they both will take down anything i want to take down. For long range shots on small critters my 30.06.
I stick with my poor mans magnum. 35Welen or 45-70 they both will take down anything i want to take down. For long range shots on small critters my 30.06.
1stmarine
Member
AK_Maine_iac, +1.... no one can argue with that.
The WSM stuff is a dead end, you'll be reloading all your ammo soon (no new WSM guns being made, sure you can find one cheap but ammo is drying up). Any .300 Winchester is more than enough for black bear.
You might be better served with a .30-06 you can afford to shoot often though.
You might be better served with a .30-06 you can afford to shoot often though.
WTBguns10kOK
member
Um you don't need a .300 anything. And why do you need to shoot 500 yards? Taking a bear with something like a quarter bore, or 6.5 isn't very hard. You're not hunting grizzlies. It's not that big a deal. If you're even asking this question...then obviously the 6.5 is your better option.
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